129 replies to this topic

[☠InDaSkies☠]

I would be willing to pay between $50 and $60 for the game and an annual members fee of say $40 dollars. I don't want it to be like TW where you have to buy better clubs, balls, shot previews, multipliers. That is the one thing that ticked me off about EA. They are a money crabbing co. There shouldn't be any of that. I just want to play on an even plane with everyone else. One thing I hope that is taken into consideration is the fact that there are a lot of older folks who play golf games and if the cost is to high that will eliminate a lot of people. If done right everyone who plays golf games will come here to play.

[Blackadar]

Again no idea yet, but part of the value of kickstarter is you get something for your contribution.  The idea is you get to buy in at the beginning and get something others cant.  Part of that may be a lower price.

I agree with you AJ, hence that's why I said I estimate the price is likely to be $29-$39 on release.  Something slightly higher than the kickstarter, but still in the same general ballpark.  Anything much more and you quickly get into the specialty gaming market - Matrix wargames being a prime example - where you sell relatively few units at a premium price.  Since you're trying to get Greenlit at Steam (I voted yes on the first day), I think you're aiming for a more mainstream market and that $30-$40 range is the price point for a non-AAA game.

 

Of course, this forum is much of an echo chamber.  The most rabid fans - like the folks here - will pay more than the non-hardcore fans.  I know I'd pay $100, but I also know that at $100 you would sell very few units.  Once you can get on a larger distribution platform, it makes sense to price the software at a reasonable amount and then run steep discounts on it from time to time.  Drop the price by 5x and you get 25x the amount of Sales on Steam.  There are plenty of examples why doing this generates more revenue:

 

http://www.gamasutra...ers_.php?page=2

http://hitboxteam.co...e-sales-figures

 

Even Valve published some numbers on Half-Life 2 validating that same information.  The trick is to get the game to the widest distribution platform you can, price it accordingly and then run discounts.  I'm sure you'll have a long cash-generation period with the game between the online components and extra courses.  That works in your favor.

 

FYI, I don't expect a response to this - not because you don't want to but because you really can't have a public pricing discussion.  We're all looking forward to this one!

[KenR]

I've decided to stay out of this discussion as far as guessing what the costs will be, because you can be assured that the PP team members are hashing out their pricing structure strategy and will decide on final pricing for the game, Course Forge and access to the site for course downloads, member tours, tournaments and such based on their vision for the future of the franchise and the game. Though they probably appreciate the interest, I doubt if their decisions will be swayed very much by the posts in this forum, although I think it's fairly clear that most members here do not like the idea of micro transactions, and they will most likely not include this as part of the pricing model.

Whatever they come up with, I believe it will be a fair, affordable price members can pay for the involvement they want in the game, and most, if possibly not all will be pleased with it.

I'm ready, and I'm in!

[Tresclub]

For example... I think I would rather sell 100 units at $20, than twenty units at $100.

[truckerkills]

I also am on a fixed income, yet, I would not mind paying for the game, then yearly fee. Also, buying additives wouldn't bother me ie; clubs, balls, clotheing and such.. a little fun But I think upgrades & new courses should be free of charge to yearly subscribers

[RobV]

I have no problem with the purchase of clubs and balls, providing that they don't become necessary to compete with others. In real life there were plenty of people around with better clubs and balls than me, but I never felt that I was at a serious disadvantage when I played them. There were always people that could hit the ball a lot farther than me too, but I never even thought about it, so as long as the game is realistic, ultimately skill should still be the deciding factor.

 

I don't believe people that play offline should have to pay a yearly subscription, just a one off payment, and I think they should still have access to the community created courses, but if the game is constantly being revised and improved each year, people paying subscriptions should receive any updates for free as they will be necessary to play online. The offline players should be given the chance to purchase these updates, and I believe the majority of people would do, as was the case with the yearly Tiger Woods updates that have been released for a long time now, and Links expansion packs etc in the past. That way I don't think anyone will feel aggrieved, and those who just can't afford it will still have something they can play until their financial situation improves.

Absolutely agree with this..  My experience and in game hours (Links 2003) were mostly dedicated playing with my family and friends via direct connection.   I have no problem at all paying for the core game as well as updates, new courses, and if I feel inclined to, online subscriptions.  But paying for balls, clubs, gloves?   Ugh, what a complete turn off.  

[shimonko]

• $30 for the game to cater for the Steam crowd
• Extended version of the game at $60 for the more serious player. E.g. only have practice facilities in the extended version, hole previews,... but keep it totally playable and without significant advantage against the standard version (not better balls, clubs...)
• Very limited hours online free, then a $50/yr rate, then unlimited online play at $100 a year.
• CourseForge free for reasons Acrilix said, but paid licence required to charge for courses created with it.
• Updates - minor updates free and automatic to keep everyone on servers on same version.
• Major updates (PP 2.0) priced according to how much new functionality they introduce.

[DaShotShapa]

I think $39.99 for the game (downloadable, or CD/DVD)

39.99 for a years subscription w/ free updates

4.99 Monthly w/ free updates

I dont mind buying clubs that give me, better attributes. Hell, I dont even mind buying balls that will give me better spin and distance. If we was playing real golf we'd be buying clubs to get better attributes anyways. But the pricing has to be reasonable. Not like WGT! I think in the past 6 months alone since TWO went down I have put well over $500 into balls and clubs, just to keep up with my friends on there.

I think if they bundle all the best clubs and balls into a elite golf bag and make the balls have a limited number of hits on each. I'd pay like $20 for that.. I like buying new balls to try out and to see how they feel. So in some ways I like WGT. But the idea of having to buy 10000($100) credits just to get a descent set of clubs and balls to keep up with my friends is a bit ridiculous to me. But thats what I paid, and then some.

Me being disabled and confined to a wheelchair between 16 and 20 hours/day(and use a mouthstick to play computer games because I'm unable to use my hands) and I'm on SSI  and only make $700/month. So $100 is a lot of money for me. I play simulated golf because I cant play real golf. Its a good platform for me to make new friends. Not only that, it gives me a break from my own reality, that I may not ever be able to play real golf.

So please PP, I beg you, dont charge an arm and a leg to play.

Thanks for listening

[spikel]

 

• $30 for the game to cater for the Steam crowd
• Extended version of the game at $60 for the more serious player. E.g. only have practice facilities in the extended version, hole previews,... but keep it totally playable and without significant advantage against the standard version (not better balls, clubs...)
• Very limited hours online free, then a $50/yr rate, then unlimited online play at $100 a year.
• CourseForge free for reasons Acrilix said, but paid licence required to charge for courses created with it.
• Updates - minor updates free and automatic to keep everyone on servers on same version.
• Major updates (PP 2.0) priced according to how much new functionality they introduce.

 

 

Honestly, charging $30 on Steam is way too much and defeats the whole purpose of the model. People are going to be impressed when they view the game no doubt, but will you attract new customers to the genre? I just envision somebody thinking okay, this looks alright maybe I'll actually purchase a golf game.... $30? For golf? No way, I can guarantee (Well maybe an economist or statistician could if you have one on the team  ) that at that price it would turn off too many potential customers. 

Release is the perfect time to build hype, attract new players, and sell the most copies at the maximum price. If you fail to hook a good player base at launch, you will be relying on 50-75% Steam sales to frantically grow the player base. I just think it's really important to get the game to as many people as possible on launch.

I think $20 would be more fair, maybe have a novelty premium shop like TF2. I think Valve really found a good F2P balance with TF2, however, I think we may have to get creative for something like that to work with golf. Silly hats I fear may be a little too out there for this gentleman's game.

 

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Important Item Shop Points

-No equipment that gives better stats than non premium equipment, I mean very slight is okay but let's be fair

-I would be okay with, say, having generic clothing to choose from and then have to pay for name brands, however, when it comes to clubs this is not okay.

-Clothing would probably be your best bet, maybe novelty stuff like Loudmouth

-As long as the player anis that the game comes with are good, premium anis are fine in my book

-Different hair maybe?

-Again, just trivial stuff, nothing game changing just like TF2 

 

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Proposal

 

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I am totally game for you guys doing everything you can do cut the initial price down to at least $20 because it is essential to get a big player base on launch. I'm all for an optional subscription fee (maybe have perks like play a round online with a dev once a year, more direct input on the direction of the game, some kind of symbol by your name, server priority if it is full or busy, access to the beta version to test upcoming features). I think you guys need to be very careful with the goldmine you are sitting on. Really think through how you do the release and consider the hundreds of poster child Steam games that have been released at the wrong time, price, or lacked marketing. You have essentially the only golf game that will be on Steam, (Honestly I'm surprised they haven't responded more  enthusiastically  given it's an unfilled niche. I wonder how possibly it would be for you to get front page promotion leading up to the launch? I imagine the bigger companies pay for that, however I've seen them promote some very small games.) likely for a good year (Unless you count worms golf). Not only that, but it is one of only two PC golf sims in development. Sure, you have your base market posting an lurking on this forum, nobody is arguing that we will not buy the game regardless of price. I'm sure it can be argued that 99% of us will purchase it (Even if they are in denial). That's why you should consider throwing the bulk of the expense on us (Premium Subscriptions, fair gimmicky item mall) and really make it as cheap as possible for a new user. I am more than happy to help subsidize the game for the masses on Steam with some non gameplay enhancing items in return, I am just more willing to pay as many of us are. My final point is that golf is one of the fastest growing sports in the world with youth, you need to consider that many in the age group of 15-30 today may actually have more interest in a golf sim. Fortunately, this age group is massive with Steam, and Steam is massive with custom content (be sure to talk up CF). A golf sim is essentially something that has to be fully experienced in order to completely understand the enjoyment involved. Not many in this large, untapped market will be willing to throw down $30+ with knowledge of a subscription and premium shop, that's just absurd and an instant turn off.

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What it boils down to is this: You can play conservative, make the price high and get a guaranteed profit to cover costs vs. Making the price low, marketing more and hoping for a bigger turnout for guaranteed long term profit.

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Consider this: You are about to have essentially a monoply over golf simulations on Steam, PC, AND Consoles until the new Red Chain comes out; if there ever was a time to put out a successful golf game, now is it. Anybody who wants a new golf sim will have to buy this, even players of the console Tiger Woods series (What craziness would that be if you guys get your console version of PG out before PGA Tour 2016(?) ). There could not be a better time to release a golf sim than this year, period. All I can say is just really think and keep thinking and really try to find the right balance with the launch that will make the game last as long as possible, it seems to me that everything is lining up perfectly to make the game a success thus far.

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To any who read all that, thank you and let me know your thoughts

Edited by spikel, 02 January 2014 - 06:18 PM.

[shimonko]

I've just checked Steam and am quite surprised how cheap games have become (last time I checked games on Steam were about 80% of shelf prices). I agree that $30 is too much.

[karma4u]

Well, you know, somehow i feel that the folks at PG will get this right. They are after all developing the game and probably have a real good feel for what the cost should be. 

[Brucey Mc]

I don't buy many games or use steam but $30 seems rather cheap to me. I would be pretty gutted spending all this time on making what looks like a great product and people offering me twenty quid for it. As I said, I don't know what people pay for games except the cost of Xbox and playstation games. Perhaps the market for us private players is a drop in the ocean compared to where PP see as their target market?

[Dazmaniac]

I have no idea what PP have planned as far as the sale of the game is concerned.

 

We can all post what we think or what we would like, but at the end of the day, its all speculation.

 

Maybe they may take a similar approach to iRacing? The actual sim is free but you purchase a subscription (usually 1 month, 3 months, 6 months or a year). With this subscription you get a stock content (7 cars and 10 tracks). While subscribed you can race online in official race series, hosted lobby races with others or just test 'offline' on your own. Currently 1 year sub is $49.50 (£30.14) which entitles you to play as many hours per day as you wish.

 

Content is never owned (even if DLC is bought) but is associated to your account, so even if you let your sub lapse and come back 2 years later, all the content you had is still on your account.

 

All quarterly build updates are free. You buy what you want to race with.

 

PP could offer various subscription packages with a stock content of a number of courses. Additional course packs become available as DLC. You then play as much or as little as you wish with the subscription pack you have purchased.

 

This is one more option to what has already been mentioned. Whether it is good or bad is each individuals opinion. iRacing always cops flak for being pricey, because of how it is a subscription service with purchasable DLC, but for some (me included) it works and the cost over time works out good value for what you get out of it.

 

Funny that back in the 90's, I never thought twice about saving some cash and going out and buying the latest Links 386 Pro course on floppy disk for about £35, yet folks now are baulking at the possibility of paying £30/£40 for Perfect Golf, lol.

 

[Acrilix]

I think discussion of the pricing structure is a valid one. If PP get it wrong it could be very detrimental to the success of this project. Lets face it, the kickstarter campaign went very wrong, and no one here wants to see a repeat of that because of a bad decision, or error in judgement where pricing is concerned. They need to get it right this time.

[shimonko]

I too think it's very valid. I didn't hear a word about the Kickstarter project despite spending about 10 hours a week on golf forums.

[shimonko]

We can all post what we think or what we would like, but at the end of the day, its all speculation.

It's not about speculating, it's about giving thoughts that may help PP make their choice. A serious Steam addict for example will have very good information to bring to the table.

[woodworkery]

I say make the game free,  and run it like WGT , but all clubs and ball are available to all players. You buy what you can afford, and just like in real golf you lose a ball you have to buy more, you want better clubs you have to buy them.

This way you will get a large player count, because  who can't afford free? Also once hooked on the game you will find ways to buy better clubs and balls. Just don't over price the eguipment. 

Gary (woodo)

[fungolfer]

[Ironic]I also have an idea: The more realistic the gameplay the more realistic the prize for the game... [/Ironic]

I think the game should not (!) have minitransactions in any way. I don't want PG be a clone of ShotOnline, WGT or TWO. I would pay up to 50$ for the game and a yearly fee for online Play. Everything else should be in the game. I also don't want to pay for courses to some1 who just creates courses. I would also pay for additional course packs, but that should be PP Packs. Just like Links 2003 or TW 08.

[Acrilix]

...... and just like in real golf you lose a ball you have to buy more

 

Surely this will just encourage everyone to play and want the easiest 'arcade' gameplay available, where they are less likely to lose balls. Anyone who wants to crank up the difficulty to make the game more realistic will then be punished for it by a huge bill! Also, players with money will be able to take risks, whereas others would be forced into more conservative play, and only the rich will win.

..... and I don't believe Tour Pros (which is what golf games simulate) buy many balls or clubs - they are given them free by sponsors.

I'm sure PP have already stated that the game won't be funded by micro-transactions.

[shimonko]

Also when is a ball truly lost IRL? Although it would be quite immersive to have to move your character to find your shot instead of teleporting there, not sure I'd be too thrilled waiting 5 minutes for a search.