151 replies to this topic

[GoldenBear]

This is why 3 click is still the best swing method imo.  There is no way to tweak the settings in it to make it easier.

[GoldenBear]

maxie, on 24 Apr 2018 - 9:55 PM, said:

Seems like this game is becoming an anti other than 3 click game, Seriously what is all this crap?

 

I have been saying this from day one.  People are far too worried who is using what swing method, what difficulty method etc, instead of simply enjoying the game.

[Buck]

I see that PGLS has now also banned the controller...

I'm surprised any of this is that much news.
I brought this specific concern up with Mike nearly 2 years ago as memory serves…

I first discovered it because the steam link and in-home streaming required big picture mode and it made the game unplayably, ridiculously, easy - honestly to the point of no fun…

Back then and through all the time since then I've always been dismayed that the developers didn't even apparently care.

[Ted_Ball]

Buck, on 25 Apr 2018 - 9:26 PM, said:

I see that PGLS has now also banned the controller...

 

While they are at it they should ban the mouse as well. That mouse is straight-edge heaven and you can fart around with the sensitivity as well. Then ban 3 Clicking because the meter is too slow and the method is too simple. And that goes for Motion Swing too. Hey...don't forget to ban the grid. It's an abhorration.  I was wondering...can you cheat on a sim in your basement?

 

Once you get onto the slippery slope of questioning the legality of swing methods you'll reach the bottom fast.

 

There is a solution kitty kats....but don't listen to Ol' Uncle Ted. 

[Buck]

Here's the email that PGLS sent out in case anyone is curious..

Sorry it's so long, but I wanted to include the entire message from Mark Holliday (user mwh65)

 

 

 

Start of the email:

 

It has now come to our notice, after the release of a recent recorded video

on the Perfect Parallel forums ...


http://www.perfectpa...in-tour-events/

that an exploit is possible through the use of an adjustable axis within
Big Picture Mode for any controller used to play the game. This works
across all controllers once you select the XBox Configuration settings to
be on.

Our investigations have so far shown that the use of this exploit is for
the most part undetectable using the data collection we have previously
used. The on-screen message is only triggered at a level of
de-sensitization which would equate to that of sub-Hacker level of
dispersion. To explain PGLS data collection briefly, we were using the
Perfect Golf API output which made straight-hit shots register a total of
+1.00 for each one used. Non-straight hits scored a total of -0.25. Using
this method, one out of every five swings could be absolutely straight and
the score remain neutral. The limit at which the Perfect Golf in-game
message was triggered was at a nominal positive and our system adopted this
same figure to give the same level of 'allowable' forgiveness. At the point
where this was breached, a message would be sent to the player's screen at
the end of their round warning that the game was being played with a
control method less sensitive than it was intended by the game's
developers, and at PGLS in this instance a message was sent via PM saying
the round had not been recorded as a result. With the exploit employed,
this message either does not show, or only shows when the sensitivity is so
low as to make the game nothing like how other swings react.

Because of the undetectable nature this exploit in all but its most extreme
form, and the exploit now being fully exposed on the developer's website
and therefore most likely more widely used, along with the veracity of
scores with this method now inevitably being called into question when
posted, we have regrettably had to take the following course of action.

Beginning with the new season starting 1st June, Real Time Controller play
will no longer be a valid swing-type in competition at PGLS. This is ONLY
the swing which involves use of the mini-sticks/D-pad to perform.

The above course of action has been forced on us because of the now greatly
increased risk that such an advantage can be gained without any way to
check it is happening. PGLS are not making accusations that it has
previously been used, or that members would use it, but feel that in light
of the evidence presented, the whole swing method can be called into doubt
because of the lack of transparency.

Players who use the Real Time Controller swing via the mini-sticks will
still be able to play rounds at PGLS, but their scores will not be recorded
and they will receive a PM to that effect. Scores will not be shown either
in-play or on final leaderboards.

Controller players who play using the swing meter click method will still
be able to use that swing and have their play verified, allowing those who
play on larger screens to sit away from the screen to play via the same
swing meter as a mouse click player uses.

Other Real Time swings played with the mouse will continue to be available
to use, and these will present an alternative for controller players to
switch over to playing.

All players who are forced though our actions to change their swing-type
will be able to have an immediate re-assessment of their level of play as
they adjust to what may well be a far more challenging swing experience but
one which is much closer to that experienced by our other swing-types.

Re-assessment works in the following fashion:

"" After a short period of play at Pro (subject to us having at least 72
holes of scoring) we can immediately assess how you compare with the stroke
average of our Pro players, and across our other skill levels offered for
play. Should your scoring be outside of the Pro stroke average by around
five strokes per round, we then move you down or up in skill level
accordingly. This ensures that you remain competitive, face a level of
challenge suitable to match your skill-set, and allows players of all
levels to feature higher on our overall combined leaderboard and Order of
Merit. Any player who, over a longer period of time of play from the start
of the year, has a score which falls below our nominal par round score of
71.00 is also eligible to drop a level on request. Player average scoring
stats are available at
http://pgls.golfladd...0&level=overall
""

From next season, starting 1st June, players scorecards will carry the
following two swing-types, and are the results of the use of the following
swings:

Click (blue cursor icon):

Mouse & Keyboard / Swing Meter
Mouse& Keyboard / Swing Meter Pointer
GamePad / Swing Meter


Mouse (orange mouse icon):

Mouse & Keyboard / Motion Swing
Mouse & Keyboard / Motion Swing Horizontal
Mouse & Keyboard / Real Time Swing Mouse
Mouse & Keyboard / Real Time Swing Horizontal

We regret having to take this action, and hope that the period of notice we
have given before this takes effect will allow players who need to change
swings adequate time to adjust to a new method of play. We would also ask
for those affected by this change, as well as those not playing with
controller, but who feel we should have the widest pool of players in the
game not only now but in the future should any console release be on the
horizon, to make your feelings about this unacceptable situation known to
the game's developers. The only way controllers can remain in the game is
if there is a form of in-game calibration to ensure everyone is playing on
the same level playing field.

[Greensboronclion]

They are now banned at PGLS and I don't blame them for doing it as this cheat will and probably has been exploited. I have gone down to Pro and will pick up another swing and live with it. It's a shame some have to cheat to boost their ego but they do and I think everyone knows who these people are. When and if PG2 comes out I will buy on the Xbox One so I can use my Legit controller as you can't manipulate on the console like you can on the PC. The big picture could spell the end of the game down the line on PC as there just are not enough mouse players left to support the game. Again it was the right call by PGLS and they did what they had to do and they did it the proper way imho.

[MimicPS]

Thanks Rob for posting up our message to members in full. What became an inevitable decision was a very hard one to make, as our whole ethos has been to never split a community by swing-type or level of play.

 

There is a period of grace between now and 1st June, when the change happens. You are making the right decision to begin to practice a new swing, and we appreciate your continued support and participation greatly. I am also planning to turn from a struggling Tour Pro Motionswinger to the Real Time Mouse Swing, so you and anyone else taking up the journey of discovery into new swing territory will have company as we all moan that "Golf is HARD".

[Crow357]

Thanks Steam for ruining my favorite way to play.

[DoGgs]

Had to be done i'm afraid, im controller too but have no regrets bringing it to light.  I have always wanted to believe everyone played fair, but knowing full well how difficult xbox controller plays on TP fairness was never across the board with certain controllers.

[Greensboronclion]

I am going to play most with Motion Swing for now as that is what I played for a long time and really like the fact that it is tempo based and even tho it uses a meter it still is based on that tempo.  Played a practice round tonight at Pro and TP and well TP is not real good right now but I do believe at Pro I can keep a respectable score for now.  RTSM is a work in progress at Pro level and really don't want to go any lower than Pro for so Motion Swing it will be.  Really quite enjoyed my round at Chicago and look forward to a new challenge.

[Buck]

Y'all have fun with that swing switching business..

 

What a bummer that the game has no way to cope with this.

 

I'm an RTS-C'er for life at this point.  

It's a tremendous loss for PG itself that this is the situation...

[LeazesNDR]

Ted_Ball, on 25 Apr 2018 - 9:57 PM, said:

 
There is a solution kitty kats....but don't listen to Ol' Uncle Ted.

A free 50 grand Trackman setup for all original supporters and buyers of Perfect Golf sounds like a good solution to me. Might need a new house to put it in, mind!

[Crusher]

Good job showing us another exploit DoGgs!  More reveals will follow from players with a conscience who realize how they are sullying the game with their shared exploits.

 

Kudos!

[FreeBolt]

Every criminal deserves a second chance, once they have served their time.

[GoldenBear]

Buck, on 26 Apr 2018 - 03:16 AM, said:

 
That's a rule here on the forum as well is it not?

 

Why do you act this way, Buck?

[samterrence]

Totally agree with you greens, I love playing with the controller, never heard of this cheating method before. I have never won any competition in  the few years I have played. Never felt comfortable tho with all the sniping at controller players,

Think this game as had its day now this is just another nail in its coffin, can't see PG2 coming out any time soon and if it does I will also buy it for the XBOX where everyone plays with the controller.

[Greensboronclion]

samterrence, on 26 Apr 2018 - 08:19 AM, said:

Totally agree with you greens, I love playing with the controller, never heard of this cheating method before. I have never won any competition in  the few years I have played. Never felt comfortable tho with all the sniping at controller players,

Think this game as had its day now this is just another nail in its coffin, can't see PG2 coming out any time soon and if it does I will also buy it for the XBOX where everyone plays with the controller.

 

 

To be honest I have accidently gotten into the Steam Big Picture a couple times and the first time I thought I did something wrong and couldn't get out of it.  lol.  I am not much with fooling around with my mouse or controller as I am a player not a computer science guy and had no idea this was able to be done.  I agree its a shame and to be honest I have believed for a while now that this game was headed to the console and still do as that is where the market is but then again even on the console I am told that there are cheater controllers for both the Xbox One and PS4 so that might not be the answer.  The real answer is called INTEGRITY of The Game and the Players and I for one applaud DoGgs for bringing this to light as it was a major advantage for the couple that uses it and caused this to happen and its called protecting the field.  In the end this is just a game but why cant most just play it as it lies is beyond me.

[Buck]

Greensboronclion, on 26 Apr 2018 - 11:22 AM, said:

...and to be honest I have believed for a while now that this game was headed to the console and still do as that is where the market is but then again even on the console I am told that there are cheater controllers for both the Xbox One and PS4 so that might not be the answer. 

 

The console angle still bums me out as I just can't imagine that existing for PG2 under Trackman ownership..

Maybe their Sim hardware could plug into and use an XB or PS system perhaps?

 

It seems unlikely due to how restrictive those ecosystems tend to be..

 

Oh well.

A drag for sure.

 

I'd really hoped to have a console be a 2nd system for travel and at a vacation house, etc.

[Andrew]

You will notice that when you do this the offset is 0.  It is almost impossible to get an offset of 0 in normal swinging mode because it means you returned the stick through the center at the exact same location as it was when you started the swing. This will usually result in the message that you appear to be using an easy controller.  We send this data through to tournaments and people will see a very high easy controller value for players who do this.

[Buck]

Andrew, on 26 Apr 2018 - 6:32 PM, said:

You will notice that when you do this the offset is 0.  It is almost impossible to get an offset of 0 in normal swinging mode because it means you returned the stick through the center at the exact same location as it was when you started the swing. This will usually result in the message that you appear to be using an easy controller.  We send this data through to tournaments and people will see a very high easy controller value for players who do this.

 
 
Thanks for chiming in Andrew..
Any hope for some word on this front from Mike's comment in February?

 

Mike Jones, on 09 Feb 2018 - 7:27 PM, said:

I have traditionally let AJ make any official announcements as he has always been the corporate figurehead of the company as well as one of the creators and developers of PG. I had a chat with him earlier today about making an announcement to the PG community so something 'official' should be in the news soon.