151 replies to this topic

[JoeBradley]

Great idea, DoGgs. I play RTSM, so not directly affected, but know I would soon stop playing without tour incentive.

[Sliceapottomus]

CONTROLLERS WERE NEVER BANNED AT OGT !!!!!!!! And they are still not banned. We have handicaps that, if you use an exploit to continually shoot low, adjust themselves to make it harder to win each week... What we decided to do was disallow gross scores. this still allows controllers to play in all stroke events which includes The weekly fed ex pga event....If we had enough controller players we would have a separate tour just for them.  With only 4 out of 80 using controller we had to make the change.... 

[Greensboronclion]

Count me in DoGgs as its a great idea and will give everybody the chance to try controller and that a good thing.

[Greensboronclion]

Sliceapottomus, on 27 Apr 2018 - 4:24 PM, said:

CONTROLLERS WERE NEVER BANNED AT OGT !!!!!!!! And they are still not banned. We have handicaps that, if you use an exploit to continually shoot low, adjust themselves to make it harder to win each week... What we decided to do was disallow gross scores. this still allows controllers to play in all stroke events which includes The weekly fed ex pga event....If we had enough controller players we would have a separate tour just for them.  With only 4 out of 80 using controller we had to make the change.... 

 

 

You are correct but it was your approach that turned us all off of OGT as you came on here and bashed us and don't say you didn't as there are threads out there that said other wise.  I enjoyed playing at OGT but I wont be told that my swing is easy and that you have tried it and proved it yourself by buying a controller and then wont back it up with a video.  Again I played both tours but one tour choose to this way or the highway and the other choose to figure out what was best for the tour and then come up with a solution for all and get in on the debate of what is wrong.  Almost all of us who play controller play legit and it was I am sorry but a slap in the face with the way you went off in this forum about the controller.  Good luck but we have moved on.

[Buck]

Greensboronclion, on 27 Apr 2018 - 4:44 PM, said:

You are correct but it was your approach that turned us all off of OGT as you came on here and bashed us and don't say you didn't as there are threads out there that said other wise.  I enjoyed playing at OGT but I wont be told that my swing is easy and that you have tried it and proved it yourself by buying a controller and then wont back it up with a video.  Again I played both tours but one tour choose to this way or the highway and the other choose to figure out what was best for the tour and then come up with a solution for all and get in on the debate of what is wrong.  Almost all of us who play controller play legit and it was I am sorry but a slap in the face with the way you went off in this forum about the controller.  Good luck but we have moved on.

 

Well said - To me, the way OGT and its representation comports itself here and on other outlets is an immense turn off.

Granted, I left when they started charging as the value wasn't in it for me, but I'd be leaving now too obviously as a result of what you're describing Greens.

[DoGgs]

My thinking with the pot accumulators is that all players will have a choice to play it easy so i would expect many pin seeking opportunities, this will boost the chances of a hole in one or albatross, every event will have a money pot of x amount that can be won and added to earnings by achieving the Hi1 or alby...or both.  If there is no claim it will increase and roll over to next event, so someone could make a big earnings leap with one shot.

streaks are an x amount of money earned for making birdie in x amount of consecutive holes.

of course all this is not finalised, just throwing ideas out there...feel free to contribute.

[Sliceapottomus]

Greensboronclion, on 27 Apr 2018 - 4:44 PM, said:

You are correct but it was your approach that turned us all off of OGT as you came on here and bashed us and don't say you didn't as there are threads out there that said other wise.  I enjoyed playing at OGT but I wont be told that my swing is easy and that you have tried it and proved it yourself by buying a controller and then wont back it up with a video.  Again I played both tours but one tour choose to this way or the highway and the other choose to figure out what was best for the tour and then come up with a solution for all and get in on the debate of what is wrong.  Almost all of us who play controller play legit and it was I am sorry but a slap in the face with the way you went off in this forum about the controller.  Good luck but we have moved on.

I posted video using xbox controller. If you use controller you can do just as i did and play in practice mode hit pitch, flop, and chip shots with out any practice and see how your path can be way off and ball still goes straight. I am not going to take time to practice a method  to get my distances down  just to prove a point that I can go low with a controller. if you want true immersion rts m is the way to go. I never bashed any 1...I never said the long shots were easier other than hitting driver off the fairway which is another clear advantage....if you use your golfer and club shaft position as a meter you will find that distances are not as hard to achieve as  some are leading us to believe. I also think that controller is a fine way to play if that is what you choose. That being said in a competition mind set there is too much forgiveness programmed into the current code to allow controllers to compete head to head with other swings unless handicaps are involved...We also personally emailed all 4 players involved and 1 of you suggested the net only idea. then you personally emailed me 4 times telling me you agreed with it then disagreed with it then agreed with it, then disagreed with it again...maybe you didn't agree with loosing the gross competition but you certainly agreed to use other swing methods stating you could shoot lower with another swing type anyways. . Now you are on here trying to make OGT out to be the bad guy...at least we at ogt still allow controllers to compete. I turned any one off  I personally gave them their money back. It is not a slap in the face when you state facts... as far as degrees of ease there will always be a bias. I can always say if controller was not easier then why are your scores no where near where they are w/o 1...but i never said that did I...../

[Sliceapottomus]

I will gladly post your e mails to me personally in off topic forum if you wish the world to see what you say in private...at your request only obviously. Furthermore at OGT no 1 person with the exception of zmax has the final say on any thing. We discuss  all with members, and make a committee decision based on whats best and above board for all members, and will continue to do so..

[DoGgs]

You are just going around in circles regarding overall difficulty, not all controllers play the same, the ones that play as intended at tour pro level are challenge enough.  Distance control with 3C putting is much easier than controller putting, once you learn that meter you have no reason not to put any putt close...putting is for dough remember!  I find green side bunker shots more difficult with 3C but i find it easier to hit fat with increased power than hitting the snap with exact power, this almost always got me to within good save range, but sometimes when i got it wrong it was just like getting the putt power wrong with controller...swings and roundabouts, we all have aspects to try and master.  A short video showing the flop or splash means nothing, a video showing -10 after 18 holes will go a long way to prove ur point as a controller rookie.  As for driver off the deck, it does not go as far as it does from a tee, its akin to a 3W,  and if you do get one to carry to a green the bounce and roll will throw you well off the green, whereas the 3W will hold the green... bit pointless really.

[Greensboronclion]

Yes I said that I would play the other swings and yes I agreed that the cheating was going on but your approach was wrong as you should have just banned the players that were doing it and not the players that were playing legit. My problem with you Sir is that you came onto the forum and talked down to us as controller players and after much thought i just decided enough was enough. You have never liked the controller and that is obvious in your posts. You know who was cheating so kick them out not everybody. It's now a moot point as we now know all can do it and not be detected as the video stated. For the record we all know that there are ways for the mouse to cheat also so don't fool yourself that you have rid yourself of cheating by banning the controller. As a matter of fact in those emails you sent you even said the other swings can be manipulated. It's obvious you and I are not going to see eye to eye on this and I have no desire to go back and forth with you on it either so let's just close the book and move on.

[Greensboronclion]

One last note on this subject. When I agreed to the idea of using Net scoring I was under the assumption that Net scoring was the only way the game would be played at events and Gross would go away as that would have been fair as the lower you shoot the harder it would have been to win. Afterwards I found out that Gross would stay and controllers were banned and that was just not right IMHO. Just my 2 cents.

[Sliceapottomus]

Yeah that's what I thought.. Any 1 that knows me knows I would not manipulate the email....and I have no bias on any swing I've used them all... right now I'm 3 clicking becasue I don't have the time to practice tour pro rts-m.  Will be happy to stop bantering  about this topic as long as you stop bashing OGT.... And admit that we are above board and try to do the best with what we have in keeping fairness for all.

[Greensboronclion]

I wasn't bashing OGT as I stated I liked playing events at OGT and never had a run in with Zmax either just you.  OGT is a fine site and great players over there and enjoyed my time there just got tired of the BS and moving on.  Yes you did the best you can to make it fair but again you should have banned the guys that were cheating and left the rest alone and that is all I will say.  Have a great day and good luck in the future and now I am off to the beach as I am tired of this topic.

[SJude]

Greensboronclion, on 27 Apr 2018 - 8:55 PM, said:

I wasn't bashing OGT as I stated I liked playing events at OGT and never had a run in with Zmax either just you.  OGT is a fine site and great players over there and enjoyed my time there just got tired of the BS and moving on.  Yes you did the best you can to make it fair but again you should have banned the guys that were cheating and left the rest alone and that is all I will say.  Have a great day and good luck in the future and now I am off to the beach as I am tired of this topic.

If it is not detectable, there is no way of telling who is and who isn't.  That being the case, there is one course of action.

[Wirenut48]

SJude, on 27 Apr 2018 - 9:41 PM, said:

If it is not detectable, there is no way of telling who is and who isn't.  That being the case, there is one course of action.

 

Cheating was never mentioned in the ban from gross play. It was that the Controller was too forgiving in the short game thus not worthy of play against the other swing types.

 

No consideration was taken that it was this way because of the restrictions of the short throw of the thumb stick. Or the fact that other parts of the swing (distance control) are more challenging compensating for that shortfall. It not a fair comparison with the small scale movements of the Ani to a larger swing meter for controlling distance. And no one wanted to be bothered testing that out. Anyone that plays with the Controller new that this was being blown way out of proportion as being an inferior method of playing.

[DoGgs]

Well the ban on the method is not going away, its permanent and until a game comes along that focuses on improving that aspect it will remain so, and it has to as its just too open to manipulation.  Cheating is a grey area as nothing can ever be proved 100% but the fact is that next gen pads are subject to curve response adjustments via steam or dedicated software ( google it you will see ) , and any other controller is adjustable through steam only.  You also have some controllers that do not play 100% the way they should.  PP created a challenging controller swing that plays great, the official xbox 360 pad was the template used for the swing and it plays the way they intended. there is a marked difference between pro and tour pro with the 360 and its a difference that i have not seen in other controllers i have played with.  the slightest off plane movement during the swing will cause off plane hits and i don't care who you are but you will not be able to hit on plane more than a handful of times in a given round, we are not robots and its just not possible.  Even in my video showing the exploit i only hit on plane twice in about 15 swings, yet we have people hitting pretty much straight every shot with the avant ball and a supposed full sensitivity spectrum, sorry but there is no way its possible with every shot. If you have never used the 360 pad you may not even know the difference and believe you have just got good, with a zero axis pad there is simply no excuse as you should know the difference straight away, if you have adjusted the curve you also have no excuse.  So we need a tour that does away with the need to adjust the response curve, hence my idea for a new format.

[Greensboronclion]

DoGgs I think your idea would really bring a lot of players over to try it as you can play as you wish. As for regular tours the controller is dead till they fix the problem and that's if they can. My question now is does the big picture that is used to change the setting in steam for the controller work the same for a mouse? There are other programs out there also so where does that go and you have to wonder if there will ever be a way to protect the field in video golf. The one reason I have started playing TGC2 more is career mode as it's me against the AI and no worry about cheats and I really wish we had a career mode here. The problem is TGC2 can't hold a candle to JNPG gameplay wise.

[DoGgs]

Yes its a crying shame there is no career mode, golf is the perfect game for it too.  It can be long running, full of stats and fully custom created with the option to edit as much as you want, so much to enjoy from a well made career mode.  Sadly TGC 2 career is rubbish, it forces you to play god awful stock courses just to get the A.I. to perform correctly, i gave up on it after 2 rounds, i was well clear of the field and bored.

[TheOtherRick]

Full disclosure...I am an Admin at the OGT website. The extent of my Admin responsibility is setting exhibition tournaments. I do not get paid for this....it is a volunteer job that I do to help the site out. I do this because I have found OGT to be a very fun place to play tournament golf using the JNPG platform.

Now...all that said, I want to reiterate a statement made earlier in this thread. OGT has NOT, nor have we EVER, completely banned controller play in tournaments on our website. We have simply disallowed controllers for gross score competition. Controller players are more than welcome to compete in any OGT tournament that has a handicap attached, including our PGA Tour.

Every controller player is entitled to his/her opinion as to whether OGT (or any other site) has behaved properly with regard to controller use. We live in a free country where each person's opinion counts. But it is unfair to make the blanket statement that OGT has banned controller use, when we have not. To blatently bash OGT for it's decision on this matter is fine, but back it up with facts, not falsehoods. Controller players are 100% welcome to come to OGT and join any tournament that has a handicap event as part of it's MOP.

I normally don't post here because I get tired of the petty drama, but I felt that as an OGT Admin, I needed to weigh in on this topic. Thank you all for allowing me to put in my two cents worth.

[Greensboronclion]

TheOtherRick, on 28 Apr 2018 - 7:39 PM, said:

Full disclosure...I am an Admin at the OGT website. The extent of my Admin responsibility is setting exhibition tournaments. I do not get paid for this....it is a volunteer job that I do to help the site out. I do this because I have found OGT to be a very fun place to play tournament golf using the JNPG platform.
Now...all that said, I want to reiterate a statement made earlier in this thread. OGT has NOT, nor have we EVER, completely banned controller play in tournaments on our website. We have simply disallowed controllers for gross score competition. Controller players are more than welcome to compete in any OGT tournament that has a handicap attached, including our PGA Tour.
Every controller player is entitled to his/her opinion as to whether OGT (or any other site) has behaved properly with regard to controller use. We live in a free country where each person's opinion counts. But it is unfair to make the blanket statement that OGT has banned controller use, when we have not. To blatently bash OGT for it's decision on this matter is fine, but back it up with facts, not falsehoods. Controller players are 100% welcome to come to OGT and join any tournament that has a handicap event as part of it's MOP.
I normally don't post here because I get tired of the petty drama, but I felt that as an OGT Admin, I needed to weigh in on this topic. Thank you all for allowing me to put in my two cents worth.

Sir it was probably not the best thing I have ever done to somewhat bash OGT and a certain administater of yours and for that I apologize. The real problem is that all will suffer for a few who cheat and that is a damn shame. You guys run a good site and yes your trying to protect the field and that is your right. I truly believe at this point there is no way to protect the field as all swing levels can really be manipulated and there is nothing that can be done about it. Again my apologies.