151 replies to this topic

[MERACE]

Greensboronclion, on 28 Apr 2018 - 8:04 PM, said:

You guys run a good site and yes your trying to protect the field and that is your right. I truly believe at this point there is no way to protect the field as all swing levels can really be manipulated and there is nothing that can be done about it. Again my apologies.

I guess then I will ask the rhetorical question. If all swing types can be manipulated (some more easily than others) then why limit or ban one swing type over others?


-MERACE

[FreeBolt]

TheOtherRick, on 28 Apr 2018 - 7:39 PM, said:

Full disclosure...I am an Admin at the OGT website. The extent of my Admin responsibility is setting exhibition tournaments. I do not get paid for this....it is a volunteer job that I do to help the site out. I do this because I have found OGT to be a very fun place to play tournament golf using the JNPG platform.

Now...all that said, I want to reiterate a statement made earlier in this thread. OGT has NOT, nor have we EVER, completely banned controller play in tournaments on our website. We have simply disallowed controllers for gross score competition. Controller players are more than welcome to compete in any OGT tournament that has a handicap attached, including our PGA Tour.

Every controller player is entitled to his/her opinion as to whether OGT (or any other site) has behaved properly with regard to controller use. We live in a free country where each person's opinion counts. But it is unfair to make the blanket statement that OGT has banned controller use, when we have not. To blatently bash OGT for it's decision on this matter is fine, but back it up with facts, not falsehoods. Controller players are 100% welcome to come to OGT and join any tournament that has a handicap event as part of it's MOP.

I normally don't post here because I get tired of the petty drama, but I felt that as an OGT Admin, I needed to weigh in on this topic. Thank you all for allowing me to put in my two cents worth.

People have been bashing the OGT long before this incident, I don't even play there but I have to listen to it all the time. All you can do is your best, and not worry about what other people say or think.

[DoGgs]

There is confusion here in the banning statements that have been made, When it was said that OGT banned controller, of course it was not a blanket ban as they kept the handicap open for controller players as a means to control and contain them, but it felt like a knee jerk reaction ban without proper reason because they were removed from playing scratch tours.  I guess the question here is what was the reason for the ban?  Was it banned because....

One 3C player decided to try controller and found forgiveness in the flop or chip shot, without really playing multiple rounds to ascertain the overall difficulty, and to think about why PP allowed forgiveness in certain areas, just like the forgiveness in 3C with dots and slow putt meter.

Was it banned because data was seen to point to forgiving controllers being used by some players.

Was it banned because OGT found the steam or next gen controller exploit before i did.

I have the utmost respect for the guys at OGT, always have...they run a great site and run it well.  I just think that slice made an error in judgement by condemning controller play without fully playing multiple rounds to get a wider picture of how it actually plays and scores when you use the controller the MOP was built with.  This annoyed some and resulted in the mess it has become.  Either way the steam exploit has killed the method dead and handicapped tours is the only avenue left for it.

[GoldenBear]

The solution is simple.  There will always be cheaters in these games, this is why I won't play tournaments.  Either accept the fact or stop playing them, simple really.  But the whining about this problem now going on 3 years gets to be silly, imo.

[maxie]

GoldenBear, on 29 Apr 2018 - 01:26 AM, said:

The solution is simple.  There will always be cheaters in these games, this is why I won't play tournaments.  Either accept the fact or stop playing them, simple really.  But the whining about this problem now going on 3 years gets to be silly, imo.

Goldenbear not all players that play tournaments are cheaters , there maybe some but thats how they get their kicks most of us just like an even field i know ranting on and on wont help and i appreciate your comment , so the players that just want an even tournament should just stop playing them? i mean on tours on ogt or pgls because there are cheaters?

[Crusher]

I know what would stop all exploits or at least stop all the ridiculous scores.

 

Cap stroke rounds:

  9 Hole Stroke:  -3 is the best a player can score

18 Hole Stroke:  -5 is the best a player can score

 

Once a player accomplishes these scores, bogies will count BUT birdies, eagles, albatrosses and aces can no longer improve the score.

 

Lot's of ties for 1st place!  Nothing wrong with that, especially when the scores were earned by experienced, honest players and quashed for exploiters.

[maxie]

Crusher what a load of crap , total nonsense .

[Buck]

maxie, on 29 Apr 2018 - 03:14 AM, said:

Crusher what a load of crap , total nonsense .

Par for the course

[DoGgs]

GoldenBear, on 29 Apr 2018 - 01:26 AM, said:

The solution is simple.  There will always be cheaters in these games, this is why I won't play tournaments.  Either accept the fact or stop playing them, simple really.  But the whining about this problem now going on 3 years gets to be silly, imo.

That may be a solution for you, i need a reason to play PG because there is no career mode and solo does not float my boat.  I like MP but it takes too long for me as i have family that want my attention more than i can stand        I have not played 9 or 18 holes for close to a week now, the desire is just not there.

[Greensboronclion]

Crusher what you just described is everybody wins and everybody gets a participation trophy. Your not a Millennial are you?

[GoldenBear]

maxie, on 29 Apr 2018 - 02:50 AM, said:

Goldenbear not all players that play tournaments are cheaters , there maybe some but thats how they get their kicks most of us just like an even field i know ranting on and on wont help and i appreciate your comment , so the players that just want an even tournament should just stop playing them? i mean on tours on ogt or pgls because there are cheaters?

 

What I meant is this maxie.  I did not say that I think the majority cheat, quite the opposite actually.  What I meant is if it concerns a person about cheating to the point it seems by some here, then it is best to avoid tournament play.  Or play them and forget about those with low self esteem who decide to cheat. 

[GoldenBear]

DoGgs, on 29 Apr 2018 - 07:10 AM, said:

That may be a solution for you, i need a reason to play PG because there is no career mode and solo does not float my boat.  I like MP but it takes too long for me as i have family that want my attention more than i can stand        I have not played 9 or 18 holes for close to a week now, the desire is just not there.

 

No offense DoGgs but if you cannot accept that some will cheat then you are destined to be upset permanently by the issue.  I still think it is easier to just let it go and have fun if you can.  I do feel for those who play the game legitimately but what can one do about it?  Not too much I believe.  

[DoGgs]

GoldenBear, on 29 Apr 2018 - 6:26 PM, said:

No offense DoGgs but if you cannot accept that some will cheat then you are destined to be upset permanently by the issue.  I still think it is easier to just let it go and have fun if you can.  I do feel for those who play the game legitimately but what can one do about it?  Not too much I believe.  

I have no idea if anyone is cheating or not, but the exploit is there and its easy to employ without detection, that in itself makes the method invalid at this point.  As it stands anyone can cheat and it makes no difference because there is no tour to benefit from, the cheating debate is now over for good.

[wim1234]

Ted_Ball, on 27 Apr 2018 - 09:53 AM, said:

My fantasy game had a dedicated controller.

its called a simulator ,Ted, and they do already exist...i do wonder why you dont play on one?

[Crusher]

Greensboronclion, on 29 Apr 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

Crusher what you just described is everybody wins and everybody gets a participation trophy. Your not a Millennial are you?

 

Not at all.  There are many players struggling to shoot -1 in tough tournament conditions.  I am not a believer in (calm, 9 stimp settings), I would always want some breeze/wind with 12 to 14 stimp.  So do others who have experience.

 

The idea behind capping the score would make it boring for exploiters, especially if they are tied with 10 players in the #1 position.

 

It's just an idea and ideas are always welcome in a forum.  People who feel the need to criticize (impolitely) well, that's their personal problem.

 

Born in 53 and a republican.

[Buck]

wim1234, on 30 Apr 2018 - 3:52 PM, said:

its called a simulator ,Ted, and they do already exist...i do wonder why you dont play on one?

 

Maybe he doesn't have room for one?

Or the budget for it?

 

Those would be my first two guesses..

[Greensboronclion]

Crusher, on 30 Apr 2018 - 4:24 PM, said:

Not at all.  There are many players struggling to shoot -1 in tough tournament conditions.  I am not a believer in (calm, 9 stimp settings), I would always want some breeze/wind with 12 to 14 stimp.  So do others who have experience.

 

The idea behind capping the score would make it boring for exploiters, especially if they are tied with 10 players in the #1 position.

 

It's just an idea and ideas are always welcome in a forum.  People who feel the need to criticize (impolitely) well, that's their personal problem.

 

Born in 53 and a republican.

 

 

Fair enough and I see your point but I just don't like it as if we cap at a score there is really no sense playing imho.  And yes all opinions are always welcome.

[RASCAL]

Ok there.s an exploit in Steam for controllers------ there's a program  for mouse called Razer synapse thyat can change axis----- theres a slow down speeder called cheat engine # 6  for 3 click -------ssssssooooooooooooooooooooooo now what.?

I dont play tournaments so  i tried 2 of these  i refuse to 3 click because its got a meter that you can get used to if you hit it in the same spot  every time. controller rts is what i'm used too so thats what i play. i can hit straight shots pretty regular. but ive also been using  controller from way back when on tiger woods so i'm used to it .

[MimicPS]

Cheat Engine... we asked the developer to counter with the swing timing, so it could not be slowed down without major offline hits. That came in a couple of updates back.

 

Mouse axis... we can detect in most cases, through recognizing zero axis hits (which are only one part of how a movement swing with mouse is measured, as the tempo determines launch direction) though we find that Vertical swing needs more work as it returns false positives (it picks up the cheaper mice as snapping to angle, but produces better data to the same degree in the horizontal version of the swing) - an issue we have spoken about here in other threads. We trust that the developers are listening and taking notes for future work.

 

It is not that controller has been singled out unfairly... all swing-types we know are open to exploitation, but in the cases of the other two inputs, we have them covered to some extent. In the case of controller with this particular one, I have to say we don't.

 

The issue is that the detection of this exploit is so weak as to be virtually useless. It can literally make a genuinue controller that the game was designed around, set at Tour Pro, play as if Hacker level.

[ArcadeHack]

This thread has maybe/probably done more harm now that more people know about this I’m guessing. Usually when cheats are found you don’t go around announcing them to a wider audience. I didn’t know about this until this thread popped up as I’m sure many others on here as well did not know.