78 replies to this topic

[JoeF]

How Adam got his Eve.

 

[Fairwayman]

Deena, for Gods and everyone elses sake

Christ the Lord Amen!!!

[karma4u]

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, just don't push your beliefs on other folks, other than that this is a hilarious thread......

[Unique]

Hi Pappy,

I am of very similar beliefs and wanted to discuss your view how God created this whole universe in approx 6000 years.

Here are some thoughts -:

People  seem to think that the 6,000 year age of the earth is arrived at by “taking the Bible literally.” That is absolutely not true! Nowhere does Scripture state any age to the earth —  young or old. Those who believe that the Bible says the earth is of a young age have arrived at that belief by accepting a number of assumptions. An archbishop in the Anglican church named James Ussher stated these assumptions in a thesis he wrote on the subject in 1650. Ushers assumptions were:

1. There are no undated verses in the biblical account.
2. There were no missing people in the biblical genealogies.
3. The purpose of the genealogies was chronological, so they are all written in chronological order.
4. No historical period is missing from the Bible.

All of these assumptions are in error, but they all have to be accepted by anyone who attempts to give a biblical date to the age of the earth.

The real issue is our view of God and how God operates — both now and in the past. There are two extreme views involved here. One is the “magician” view of God. Those who hold this view see God as a miracle worker who functions as a magician, doing magic and miraculous things that man cannot and should not try to understand. Many preacher-training schools promote this view in which every statement in Genesis is a miracle done by a method only God can do and understand. When God says, “Let there be light,” in Genesis 1:3, light appears by itself with no cause. We know today that light is produced by the acceleration of electric charge, but the magician approach would say that light came by an act of God that was totally miraculous. The extremists of this view would suggest that at the end of verse 1, God had an earth with fossils in the ground, rock layers with coal seams hundreds of feet underground, all from animals and plants that never existed.

The alternative extremist view is to maintain that God is an engineer and that everything was done by natural processes with God offering some kind of guidance, but no more. This view would accept any concept of the evolution of humans saying that God simply used evolution to form humans, and that whatever spiritual qualities we might have were physically produced in our brains. The creation of the physical universe would, in a similar way, be viewed as a natural process guided by God, but nothing more.

A person who is a physical extremist (naturalist) cannot seriously believe that everything we see and experience is naturally caused. The creation of time and space is not a natural process. Man's spiritual makeup is not explainable in terms of evolution or psychology.

In the original language of Genesis chapter one, there is strong indication that both miraculous creation and natural processes took place. The language indicates this with the Hebrew bara being used only in reference to what God can do — never to what humans or natural forces can do. The Hebrew asah is used in reference to what both man and God can do. When the creation of time, space, and matter/energy are described in Genesis 1:1 the word used is bara. When change is made in the waters in verse 7 the word used is asah, indicating a natural process. When the spiritual makeup of man and woman is described in verse 27 the word used is bara. When man’s physical body is made up of the elements of the earth in Genesis 2:7 bara is not used. Instead, the Hebrew word yatshir is used, indicating the kind of process a sculptor or artist might do. The Genesis account ends in Genesis 2:3 (KJV) by stating “God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he rested from all his work which God created [bara] and made [asah].” A clear statement of the fact that both processes were used.

This is not a salvation issue and these thoughts reflect my understanding and are here to stimulate thinking and are taken from an article written by John Clayton

 

Peter

[Pappy]

Unique, here's a link that talks about age of earth - when I said 6000 years I was meaning the absolute minimum - talks about it in this article.

http://www.icr.org/a...according-bible

Like I said when I started this thread I am not a scientist - what I believe is what I gleaned from other people's writings including the Bible then I make my decisions etc. At one time I did believe that God"started" evolution but have since changed my mind. Again I say as I did at the top that icr.com is made up of full blown credentialed creation scientists but I wouldn't read their articles or opinions unless you are prepared for the possibility that creation is true. They have hundreds of articles on creation and why evolution couldn't have occurred. Check this out:

http://www.icr.org/article/478/303

Deena I want to comment on your comments but not now. Long day and I'm dead - no PG golf even. I read all the posts tho even the sarcastic, etc ones. All I'm trying to do here is to give you "the other side". In the end it's your choice.

[Pappy]

and I wouldn't go there because you could never argue it out with them because there minds are already decided and are not open to seeing it any other way and I think people like that are dangerous,

Well Deena from what you wrote looks like the reverse is true! I would bet that you haven't read one word of the ONLY website that I suggested people browse through including those two links above. In my case I've had evolution pounded into me in grade school (as a kid) so I know how difficult it might be to switch to the creationist model - I think I was in my 40s. One more thing that I'm sure you won't want to hear: I believe the biggest reason why people don't want to believe in the all powerful creator God is because then that person will have to change his life style from the worldly viewpoint to His "viewpoint" AKA laws, commands not suggestions.

[Acrilix]

I believe the Bible is God's inspired Word and what I call His love book to us.

 

How many pages of your Bible did you have to tear out to turn it into this 'love book'?

[SmokaSizzle]

Religion : Mass control of the population through fear of the unknown.

[JoeF]

Interesting factoid:  In the bible, words having to do with love are significantly outnumbered by words having to do with killing.

[Fairwayman]

@420--blue dream---yummy

You should have said:

:wub:Mass control of the population through fear and intimidation

[Pappy]

How many pages of your Bible did you have to tear out to turn it into this 'love book'?

How many pages of the Bible have you actually read (not skimming thru counting words but actually reading it both old and new). I don't have a lot of answers of why God does certain things (He knows WAYYY more than we do and the outcomes of that action before He even does it) but I trust Him fully that knows what He's doing. A lot of times He uses tough love and it can be hard to endure but we'll come out better in the long run. You want to meet a god can be cruel and vindictive try the god of the middle east but that's all I'll say on that.

[Fairwayman]

:angry:Ya Pappy, was over there 8 yrs in ME in USAF, there are good and bad in everybody/society..on earth Met quite a few nice ones, but even our ME allies working with us agreed the Fanatic beliefs are counterproductive and inhumane---Oh, lets fly planes into a 3000 people occupied buildings...insane

Tell me if there was a god why would he have let that happen if he can predict the future, I would kick someones ass if I found out the two towers could have been averted.  Don't tell me about how we knew the attacks were coming, I was in high places in USAF and seen/heard

Generals/Col. political moves too often...AND, don't tell me ..God gave free will to us and we were let friggin loose

That's Real GOD Like

[Pappy]

Fairwayman like I tell people when they start asking WHY questions concerning God "I don't know, He's God and I'm not". In the Bible it's like the clay asking the potter "why did you make me like this?". We are the created being with Him being the Creator. Who are we to question Him but He let's us - see Job.

[Fairwayman]

Pappy, all my text is not meant in any way directed towards you, I respect your opinion

 

angry:ITS JUST A FRIGGIN BOOK, a religious and political tool to foster wars, well it sure has flourished

:wub:Its the free will that has screwed us so I guess somebody gave that to us if they did ...they/it/him  can have it back...sheesh

 

 

I'm so happy I can keep sinning, and met with a smile at the pearly gate to be all inclusive pardoned....BS, LIKE nothing happened all my life

[Acrilix]

Pappy, I'm pretty sure I have read most of the Bible. It's the book with the talking snake on the first page, isn't it?

I know you must think people are pretty stupid for not believing what is to you a quite reasonable, and obviously true story, but you really didn't need to tell us that you are not a scientist.

I'm sure even the stupidest of us could work that one out for ourselves. 

[Pappy]

For those of you who would rather look at videos than read this page might interest you.

https://answersingen...rg/media/video/

In fact the Answers in Genesis site are also creationists.

https://answersingenesis.org

[spy88]

Pappy, as if there aren't enough places to voice your religious opinions and faith based beliefs (with like-minded souls), you felt what?....a overwhelming "need" or "desire" to breach the subject here?   This tells me your OP is nothing more then bait looking for potential converts using links that anyone who wished to play the "devils advocate" could also do to refute them.   

 

And for the record, I'm agnostic, have been for 58 years...ever since I was old enough to realize there are good and bad people and a belief in a God or not  had nothing to do with what made them one or the other.    

[Buck]

Just to say it upfront....I certainly don't mean to personally offend anyone and I apologize if that is how this is taken - not my intention.

 

 

I think, if we don't totally destroy the Earth first, given where advanced science and technology are right now on the grand timeline of human life on Earth (very very early and extremely rapid progress), it's likely that religions will be relegated to complete fairy tale status in the next few hundred years.

 

The problem for religion is that the more we learn and understand about our universe through scientific, demonstrable and observable methodologies, the more incompatible all the religious stories become with that knowledge.

 

As that happens, the only choice for a religious mind is to cherry pick what they take and believe from the stories (already happens now) or abandon them and join the more literal, realist and science minded humans.

 

I was raised Catholic and at about age 7 or 8 in Sunday "school", I remember my first feelings of "what is this nonsense" & "this makes no f'in sense at all" - Was done basically at that point and I haven't looked back for a moment.

 

 

 

(I have a whole additional take on how wrong I think it is to indoctrinate young children - religions know they need to do it, as they stand a much lesser chance of ever "getting them" if they don't get them while young and impressionable)

[Fairwayman]

OK Im gonna say it, my meds are allowing me to be free.
:angry:Catechism-classes---Oh the Hypocrisy by these people--not all of the nuns were mean but wow... for 8 yrs...then public High School thanks to my parents.

:angry:The friggin Priests --2 out of 5 were trying to have relations with some of the boys. Well guess (I was in 7th grade 5-10-150pnds) who one TRIED for about 2 seconds until I rammed his nose bone up his cranial area.(he didn't know I had some defensive training but the strike was quick and lethal ...because of natural reaction and training....Intensive care for 2 weeks...still acts like he has major mental probs..well he is old
Yes of course about 3 sec after striking him I wish I would have used the most important tool---try to calm and talk the person into rational behavior but I DID NOT DO THAT and I regret that (black belt 2 yrs later)..well they TRIED to throw the book at me...I swear we could have made a movie....I had 2 count em Two kids that saw everything..who I didn't even hang with .......testify in front of THE Monsignor that he has come at them before as well ...he said jokingly--ya right


;)Well, like a movie, he was banished and shamed ..........after he recovered

I hope parents who are going thru this....or better yet ALL parents should be vary vigilant about these issues with their kids--TALK to your kids