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1.3 Putting Roll Physics


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#1 tlvx

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 06:21 PM

I was under the impression, that the only thing wrong with the previous putting physics, were the pinball like launches of longer putts, the lack of power on the short putts, and the excessive sensitivity of the lip of the cup.

 

I wanted to give putting a longer look, before critiquing the physics... but, other issues have all but prevented that.

 

So, my impression of when I went out to practice putts... is the following:

 

The putting physics seem to have been over-corrected.

 

Now, the ball seems to accelerate too late - and then, for far too long - before abruptly slowing down. This is the best that I can describe it.

 

There is too much break, and too much speed throughout putts, now. Those things shouldn't exist simultaneously.

 

I will say this. It's harder to test putting now... because there is no hole marker on the meter. But, in my tests, I just used mulligans to hit the same putts over and over again.

 

The problem is, even when I have taken several mulligans, and known exactly where to hit the putt, and hitting it dead on... the roll out still seems a bit too imprecise. Or rather, so precise, that there is too small a window for consistently achieving the correct speed and line... even when the putt has clearly been read perfectly.

 

-- And, when the putts do drop, it looks more like an accident, than a good drop... even when knowing exactly where to hit it. This is especially so of putts that drop in the side of the hole... almost as if they were side swiping the hole, and the hole just happened to get in the way.

 

Before, you could hit putts that gradually slowed down, and dropped into the cup. Kind of like that putt Justin Rose hit in the first hole of the Playoff... at the last event, at Muirfield.

 

Now, it seems like duplicating a deft touch is all but impossible... unless done by accident. Basically, the power window, between rocketing a putt past the hole, versus, barely getting the putt to the hole... seems much too small.

 

I definitely like the fact that long putting is more challenging. Players that are closest to the pin, should absolutely have an advantage.

 

But, that - in and of itself - doesn't make the roll physics seem any more realistic than before.

 

The problem we have, is, it's like comparing apples to oranges, due to the meter change.

 

But, again, when taking several mulligans, I still am not seeing as smooth a roll, as we had previously, with the 10 to 15 foot putts... even when repeatedly hitting the putt exactly where it needs to be hit, in order for it go in.



#2 JoeF

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 06:33 PM

As Andrew stated in another post recently the speed and friction of the greens are based on physics formulas supplied by the USGA.  Perhaps you should be speaking with them as to the quality of their data if you feel it is wrong.  Personally I have no issues with what I see happening when I'm putting.  Looks/feels pretty convincing to me based on my experience putting in real life.


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#3 tlvx

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 06:37 PM

As Andrew stated in another post recently the speed and friction of the greens are based on physics formulas supplied by the USGA.  Perhaps you should be speaking with them as to the quality of their data if you feel it is wrong.  Personally I have no issues with what I see happening when I'm putting.  Looks/feels pretty convincing to me based on my experience putting in real life.

 

I disagree.



#4 robbiet71

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 06:54 PM

Lol yes I imagined that you disagreed tvlx...The clue was in your post ;)

I agree with JoeF, the ball behaves as I would expect a ball to behave on a green.

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#5 IanK

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 06:58 PM

As Andrew stated in another post recently the speed and friction of the greens are based on physics formulas supplied by the USGA.  Perhaps you should be speaking with them as to the quality of their data if you feel it is wrong.  Personally I have no issues with what I see happening when I'm putting.  Looks/feels pretty convincing to me based on my experience putting in real life.


I'm afraid that I disagree too. As I stated in another thread the ball breaks far too early in my opinion. I thought the putting physics on the old version were very good although I didn't like the method.
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#6 JoeF

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 07:07 PM

I disagree.

 

I'm curious as to what parts of my response you disagree with - the USGA's physics data, that I have no issues with putting or my IRL experience.


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#7 clubcaptain

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 07:13 PM

I'm good with the putting. Not seeing anything that would cause concern.


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#8 JoeF

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 07:14 PM

I'm afraid that I disagree too. As I stated in another thread the ball breaks far too early in my opinion. I thought the putting physics on the old version were very good although I didn't like the method.

 

During the conversion to U5 the devs discovered a bug that had been adversely affecting the friction settings for the greens.  As a result the putting physics in the old version had actually been wrong.  


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#9 tlvx

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 12:03 AM

As I stated in another thread the ball breaks far too early in my opinion. I thought the putting physics on the old version were very good although I didn't like the method.

 

I just putted around with mulligans again. The putting roll has too much acceleration, throughout the putt, and stops too abruptly.

 

With mulligans enabled, I was able to find the precise point between where the putt would stop just before the hole, and the point where it would roll past the hole... and there is just far too much acceleration along the way, of either putt, whether it was too long or too short... the roll is always too fast.

 

What makes it weird, is the increased putting roll speed - on putts from 7 to 10 feet... does not come without an additional amount of break action.

 

Now, I could very well just accept the odd look of this, and get used to it... as I'm sure many users will just do.

 

But, it just doesn't pass the eye test.

 

The putts are rolling too fast, and stopping too quickly.

 

The excess break versus the speed doesn't seem right either.

 

Aside from the excessive launch speed on longer putts, with the previous build... the mid-range putts rolled much more realistically than they do now.

 

Now, it feels more like ice Curling, instead of putting.



#10 Greensboronclion

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 12:42 AM

Well I just got home and finally got to try the game and as for the putting it is difficult but it pretty much mirrors how putting should be which is difficult.  This will be tweaked many times before release so why beat a dead horse and just let grow into what it will be not what it is now and by the way its not bad at all right now.  I have no problem tho with the roll of the ball off the putter as it is pretty smooth on my end.



#11 scrambler

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 01:02 AM

I'm having more trouble playing the break than getting the distance right.



#12 Richard

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 01:07 AM

I'm having more trouble playing the break than getting the distance right.

 

Me too, I starting to get it but as I said in another post the allowance for break seems excessive compared to what I experience in real life. As others have said, it will be tweaked many times before Full Release.


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#13 scrambler

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 01:16 AM

It's probably because we are both from North Dakota and everything is flat there.



#14 AwYea

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 01:17 AM

I have 2 issues with the putting.

 

1-Putting uphill you have to hit the ball ridiculously hard. The very first time this caught my attention was when I had a 8' putt, 6" uphill, and I had to hit it a good 20'. I remember this vividly because I must have hit that put 10 times trying to figure out what was going on. This isn't a isolated situation, it's all uphill putts. Flat and downhill putts feel fine.

 

2-For whatever reason I can't read the greens anymore. I'm not sure why it is. I had become an expert with the BLI before the update. Now, I think I'm going to have to go back to the grid.

 

I do know the new putting camera looks good, but you can't hardly read a putt to save your life using it. The break left or right, uphill or downhill can look completely the opposite of what it is. The reverse cam is much better and it would be nice to have that camera view from behind the ball to the hole also.


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#15 Fairwayman

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 01:22 AM

⛳️ Played 36 holes today with various members, the more I putt, the more I think the physics are very close to being spot on.
Getting the meter dialed in for speed but yeah Richard, reading the break along with appropriate speed is going to take a lot of practice.
Really liking the update but i agree the breaks are a little exagerated compared to IRL ⛳️

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#16 scrambler

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 01:22 AM

I went back to the old putting camera. The player isn't in the way like it used to be.



#17 Fairwayman

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 01:26 AM

I went back to the old putting camera. The player isn't in the way like it used to be.


Tried that as well, but I really like the option for ground level breaks.

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#18 mebby

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 01:29 AM

I have 2 issues with the putting.

1-Putting uphill you have to hit the ball ridiculously hard. The very first time this caught my attention was when I had a 8' putt, 6" uphill, and I had to hit it a good 20'. I remember this vividly because I must have hit that put 10 times trying to figure out what was going on. This isn't a isolated situation, it's all uphill putts. Flat and downhill putts feel fine.

2-For whatever reason I can't read the greens anymore. I'm not sure why it is. I had become an expert with the BLI before the update. Now, I think I'm going to have to go back to the grid.

I do know the new putting camera looks good, but you can't hardly read a putt to save your life using it. The break left or right, uphill or downhill can look completely the opposite of what it is. The reverse cam is much better and it would be nice to have that camera view from behind the ball to the hole also.


I do agree with reading the break. Often times it physically looks completely opposite of what the BLI tells me.

I'm OK with it as I use the BLI to tell me what to do and I feel like we just aren't at a point in terms of technical abilities where this should be expected.

Haven't noticed the uphill putt issue that you've pointed out. I'll take another look. Could just be that I chalked it up to me trying to get used meterless putting.

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#19 Richard

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 02:21 AM

It's probably because we are both from North Dakota and everything is flat there.

 

You must live in the Eastern Half. We do have some pretty good slopes from Bismarck west. :D


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#20 Armand

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 03:24 AM


Now, it feels more like ice Curling, instead of putting.

 

This post is completely off topic), but are you a curler, tlvx?  I don't think there are many on this forum. 

 

I have not yet played the new build of PG, so I cannot comment specifically on the topic.






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