69 replies to this topic

[frank70]

The team do act upon feedback and this does worry me if the feedback isn't so much based on neutral observations but more as a case 'it's not doing what I want so clearly the game is in error and suddenly my eyes make me see things that don't exist at all so I can use that as some way of compensating my own lack of prediction ability - severe breaks of the putter - poppycock says deena, don't bite at it team.

Yeah, we all shouldn't suppose that what we have seen in previous golf games is reality. When the devs say that they have data from the USGA and trackman data, i would suppose that the behaviour/physics of the ball in PG is much closer to reality than in previous golf games.

 

As for the break of the ball when leaving the putter: Maybe the greens have a little more contures and break than the real courses. A slight correction of the starting break could serve well - but only slightly. 

 

Stay the course devs!

[IanK]

The team do act upon feedback and this does worry me if the feedback isn't so much based on neutral observations but more as a case 'it's not doing what I want so clearly the game is in error and suddenly my eyes make me see things that don't exist at all so I can use that as some way of compensating my own lack of prediction ability - severe breaks of the putter - poppycock says deena, don't bite at it team because the emergent physics wouldn't allow for it - not if I am to understand the principles or emergent physics.

People post their feedback on what they observe not because they have any sort of agenda. I don't want the game to be easy, as I've previously stated but having played a lot of golf in the real world I do want the putting to react in a realistic manner. If it were just one person saying that the putts were breaking too early then you might have a point, but it isn't, and saying that it's because they lack ability in predicting the path the ball should take isn't helpful. The problem could very well be due to some of the overly severe slopes that we putt the ball from, but this feedback is given in good faith from what is observed.
When you say 'don't bite' you are suggesting that the posters are trying to bait the developers into changing the game to suit their lack of ability. Nonsense says Knighters!

[Dazmaniac]

I guess it's all part of the development process. Folks are only posting feedback from what they see and experience. There are no agendas or intent to irk the PP Dev Team, I'm sure.

Some folks see issues with the putting breaks and roll and some of us don't.

I will just say I find the U5 version a big improvement over the U4 version, but then some will disagree.

Onward and upward.

[remers]

I can't say that I've noticed anything odd with the putting roll either but I've not played that many rounds and I may have found some fairly level areas to putt from.

Of course, the one thing that would help enormously in solving these sorts of issues would be a better practise area that everyone could use for comparisons and video examples.  I know it's on the list but I'm convinced that if an area existed for uniform putting and chipping practise by players, testers and devs alike, these things would get cleared up more quickly without the constant toing and froing.

[Mike Jones]

The putting roll is certainly different because AJ actually found a 'limiter' build into our old code which was stopping the ball taking the slope the way it should. I've spent the morning on the putting green IRL and the slope the ball starts off on has a much bigger effect than you might think and the people thinking that the break at the end of the putt should be more pronounced are actually incorrect although it may look that way because at that point the ball is rolling usually across the field of vision having taken previous breaks.

 

I spend a bit of time with aimpoint last year figuring all this stuff out and they explained to me some of the preconceptions that people have(including many pros!). What actually happens is that given a consistent slope, the ball will take the break as it moves and the more break it takes during the putt the more 'down the hill' the ball will end up travelling and so the forces working sideways on the ball are actually less as its effectively moving downhill at that point rather than across the slope. Of course as the ball slows down it can take more break but only if the slope changes near the hole to an even steeper slope or the slope goes in the opposite direction.

 

I realise that it's important for us to get the visual right but thats more a function on how the cameras are working rather than the ball movements itself. Hope this helps explain things a little.

[MimicPS]

Hey... I'm just happy to learn how to putt on greens which are always in the finest of conditions, and offer plenty of challenge with all sorts of micro-break, just like I would expect real-life topography to be on certain courses.

 

That's not to say that the formulas can't be constantly kept under review, just in case other 'limiters' are discovered which cloud the issue further. For me, if this is what it feels like to play on greens of the calibre of the highest quality courses around the world, then that is more than I could ever imagine getting to grips with in real life.

[MimicPS]

I realise that it's important for us to get the visual right but thats more a function on how the cameras are working rather than the ball movements itself. Hope this helps explain things a little.

 

On that subject Mike, and I know that it would obviously be some way down the line, but has any vague consideration been given to give a 'TV presentation' style choice of dynamic camera? I can't remember which frachise it was, some time back, which built into its visuals the sort of angles and camera changes that one would expect to see watching BSkyB or CBS/NBC.

 

I know some way on from where we are, but something that your team's experience within the broadcast galley and edit suite could bring to life fantastically.

[Andrew]

We put in the spectator cam to mimic the camera guy tracking the ball using one of the mobile golf course cameras.  If you can write up a specific functionality for this camera it would be a great help.  EG.

Camera Look At Target  (ball, player, landing etc), Camera Position, Camera Frame Target (anything that should be kept in camera frame) etc, during the course of the shot bounce and roll that would be great.

[IanK]

Ok, I'm happy accept the argument about the break for now. I will adapt my aim and see where the argument goes over the next few weeks.
I've just played a few rounds with the latest patch. I have a few observations which might have been mentioned by others. They are not meant as criticisms just my opinion.

Too much run on the 'Pitch' shot option. Strangely enough if you chose to use the full shot to play your pitch shots the ball stops very much quicker.
Chip shot very much better than pre-patch but I think maybe it's gone slightly too much the other way now, with the ball stopping too quickly. Maybe this was done on purpose by the devs to see how far to push it. It's almost perfect.
Still a sound issue, with the ball striking sound dropping out.
Some strange 360 degree camera rotation at times.
Putts still passing over the hole at normal putting speeds.
Most times after going in a bunker there is no shot restriction. That is too say it nearly always offers you a 100% shot, especially from fairway bunkers. I think bunkers should be more of a deterrent.

These are only minor quibbles. Overall the game looks fantastic and plays very well.

[frank70]

@Knighters

 

If you have a clean lie in a fairway bunker, there is a good chance that you can hit it without reduced distance.

 

But it would be great if we could have thin or fat contact in the future.

[IanK]

@Knighters
 
If you have a clean lie in a fairway bunker, there is a good chance that you can hit it without reduced distance.
 
But it would be great if we could have thin or fat contact in the future.

I realise that Frank but when you go in a bunker at the moment you almost always have a 100% lie. I don't want it to be like TGC where you always have get a plugged lie from a drive but there should be some chance that the ball won't be lying cleanly. Otherwise what is the point in having a bunker in the first place?

[AwYea]

I spend a bit of time with aimpoint last year figuring all this stuff out and they explained to me some of the preconceptions that people have(including many pros!). What actually happens is that given a consistent slope, the ball will take the break as it moves and the more break it takes during the putt the more 'down the hill' the ball will end up travelling and so the forces working sideways on the ball are actually less as its effectively moving downhill at that point rather than across the slope. Of course as the ball slows down it can take more break but only if the slope changes near the hole to an even steeper slope or the slope goes in the opposite direction.

 

I've really noticed the bolded above. I think it's really great how that works, very realistic. Not sure if i've ever seen this in another game before. In most games if you have a 20' flat putt with a lot of break, you still hit it 20'. In PG you would hit the same putt around 15' to account for the downhill roll in the break.

 

As far as the too much break too soon, i think a lot of this has to do with the zoom on the new putting camera. The ball can be resting on a considerable side slope, and because of the zoom, sometimes you don't realize it. You have to do a lot more surveying of the putt now(left and right) by trying to find the beginning and end points of slopes between the ball and the hole, especially at the ball if you're on any kind of slope. 

[J_Schollmeyer]

After some practice with the new putting I must say for me it's spot on. The only thing I don't like is the speed of the putting meter. On short putts over 6 feet I find that the speed is too fast. Maybe the devs should slow down the speed and in compensation increase the penalty for missed snaps.

In general I found the old putting before the U5 update, especially in terms of the putting meter speed, not so bad except the marker for the ideal putting pace that made putting far too easy.

[Fairwayman]

⛳️Yes, i really like the putting the more I play, it helps to have a mental overlay on the meter of approx pwr required for each distance.
As people play and putt more they will soon develope that skill of the amount of pwr needed for certain putts.⛳️

[J_Schollmeyer]

After doing some practice on the short putts I'm getting more familiar with speed but why do we really need two different putting meters? I think slightly slowing down the speed of meter for long putts would do the trick and we won't need a putting meter for short putts. Or am I missing something?

[Buck]

 I find it rather difficult to make a slow, rhythmic putting motion, because the swingmeter is pretty fast. So on a 10 footer, i often get the feeling that my stroke wasn't that smooth and maybe way off plane (I'm playing MS, off/off). 

 

I won't complain too much on any of this as I know it's all due to change again once the avatar integration comes along.

 

That said, I find the current putting swing meter situation awful.  It so clearly calls for a different sensitivity setting and interface than reusing the normal swing implementation.

 

I don't really get why the putting one couldn't have been different.  Short game shots get a different meter (chopped off).  That, along with a much slower meter movement I think at least would have been better for the putting.  

[HeNs]

I for one no that the putting is closer to or is spot on to IRL being a 4 handicap IRL and I knew an felt the pre-determine distance given to us by flag made putting easier and I am a fan of new putting distance judgment difficulty required now, but as I have stated in a previous thread the meter from inside 30 feet does need to be addressed with the same speed for these putts as the 6 footer especially inside 15 feet because it is still requiring a rapid 3rd click or a second meter for inside 30 feet like previous pc game games that I've played since 1999.

And btw this is one of if not the best pc golf games I have ever played so keep up the great work going forward guys..!.