83 replies to this topic

[Dazmaniac]

Be interesting to see the scores the folks saying 3C Off/Off is too easy are shooting.

I played a few rounds for Teddy's forum tour and find it anything but easy. It is a great challenge for clickers IMO. Not saying good scores can't be achieved as they can, but definitely not easy.

3C Max/Max on the other hand is a totally different game.

[mebby]

Let's just say a suggestion I read a long time ago was actually acted on.

 

Make 3click the only swing method for this game - all things become equal.

 

There will never be equality between MS and 3C.

 

Links first arrived on the market with just a circular meter back in the early 1990's---everyone and I mean everyone loved it.

 

Would having a golf game with just a 3click meter KILL the game for Motion Swingers?  Definitely not, they would adapt and very, very quickly.  Would PP/PG lose a few players. Absolutely!  Maybe 3 would stop cold in their tracks.

 

Would the elimination of 3clicking KILL this game? Absolutely!  The Golf Club and three others stopped me cold when I discovered there was no circular meter.  I went right back to Links 2003 and Tiger Woods PC 2008---never looked back.

 

3C
Everyone can play more freely anywhere they like. No worries about a flat surface to slide a mouse on.  Play the game in their lap with a cordless mouse on their leg (or the person's leg next to you  ) on the subway. So many ways to justify a solid PC Golf game with just a 3click meter. Just is....

I was with up until that last statement.  I like options.  Sometimes I play 3C if I want a more relaxing, worry-free round.  But when I really want to play I chose MS.  It's more challenging and more rewarding... FOR ME.

 

If I'm playing in a competition I'd like the option to set those competitions to only one swing method or both.  That way I can chose to play with people using the same input or chose to play with people using different inputs.  In my personal opinion, 3C is far easier to master (consistently) that MS.  So when I'm using MS and playing against a 3C player I feel like the 3C player has an advantage.

 

I wish I could play a local round with two players controlled by me.  One would use MS and one would use 3C.  I'm certain that my 3C player would win 95% of the time.  I DO know that when I switch back and fort between rounds that I consistently score several strokes lower on 3C than I do on MS (both with no assists).

[Crow357]

This thread isn't about the equality of the swing types.  I don't play 3 click and if that was the only option, I'd prolly stop playing.

[Sinewiz]

And there's others such as myself that would quit all together if clicking wasn't available. It's nice to have options.

[mebby]

And there's others such as myself that would quit all together if clicking wasn't available. It's nice to have options.

EgggggggZACTLY!  I like options.

[axe360]

Boy this thread has really gone awry. Now were discussing taking away a swing style? ROFLMAO..." We're Doomed Sydney".

[Buck]

.... we'll actually end up with a third swing style (essentially) once the game is on consoles and a controller is involved.

[DennisHarris]

No 3-Click is not to easy.  Putting dots or markers on the swing meter will make playing 3-click easier. But not too easy.

[tlvx]

Here's why 3-Click is too easy, relative to Motion Swing... because of the big elephant in the room: Cheating.

 

On 3-Click Off/Off, Cheating is potentially far more effective - up against Off/Off Motion Swing... which, due to the insane tempo requirements, (and quite a novel idea, I might add) it is nearly impossible to master the Motion Swing, irregardless of Cheating.

 

The mere idea of Cheating- by slowing down the meter, or prolonging the tempo, in Motion Swing - would Not be effective, due to the time constraints built into the Motion Swing shot.

 

Alas, 3-Click isn't bound by any of those time constraints... which means, a Cheating 3-Click Off/Off player can slow down their meter until the cows come home, and until they have hit the perfect snap.

 

Therefore, for a Cheating 3-Click Off/Off player, it is tantamount to being easier to play than Motion Swing Max/Max, which still has the exact same tempo requirements, as Motion Swing Off/Off.

 

The developers did a good job with Cheat-Prevention... for the Motion Swing. They have yet to carry this Cheat-Prevention over to 3-Click.

 

Until there is a Cheat-Detector for Slowing-Down-The-Meter, than 3-Click Off/Off will always be easier than Motion Swing, on any level.

 

A solution I would propose; is to add a Real-Time Swing-Clock to the 3-Click Swing, over the top of the Perfect Golf executable. The key is that the Swing-Clock has to be Real-Time, so that Slowing-Down-The-Swing becomes ineffective, precisely as ineffective as it is in Motion Swing.

 

Basically, the proposed Swing-Clock, would have to continuously sync up with the system clock, which would have to sync up with the world clock. If, by the end of the 3-Click Swing, the in-game Swing-Clock is determined to be out-of-sync (from the other clocks) by more than a reasonable amount, (i.e. 3 seconds or less) than the swing would produce a dribbler, as it does in Motion Swing, when the time limit is exceeded.

 

If done well, this type of Timed-Cheat-Prevention, would level the playing field, between 3-Click, and Motion Swing.

[JoeF]

Tlvx, 3-click cheat detection was being worked on quite some time ago and may already have been implemented within the game.

[Tigers Agent]

a motion swinger walks into the PG clubhouse tavern after 18 holes. bartender says"why the sad face?"

motion swingers says.. "I just got beat by a 3 clicker"..

bartender says "must have been cheating".

(this will be the constant through the life of this game)

[tlvx]

tlvx, how exactly, details please, would someone be able to slow the 3C meter in the game?

 

 

I'm not giving a seminar on how to exploit games. I was commenting on potential ways to prevent such exploits from ever occurring.

 

I'm pretty sure that some if not all of the developers would have some knowledge over such things. But, it's always good to take stock of existing vulnerabilities, ongoing.

[Richard]

Here's why 3-Click is too easy, relative to Motion Swing... because of the big elephant in the room: Cheating.

 

On 3-Click Off/Off, Cheating is potentially far more effective - up against Off/Off Motion Swing... which, due to the insane tempo requirements, (and quite a novel idea, I might add) it is nearly impossible to master the Motion Swing, irregardless of Cheating.

 

The mere idea of Cheating- by slowing down the meter, or prolonging the tempo, in Motion Swing - would Not be effective, due to the time constraints built into the Motion Swing shot.

 

Alas, 3-Click isn't bound by any of those time constraints... which means, a Cheating 3-Click Off/Off player can slow down their meter until the cows come home, and until they have hit the perfect snap.

 

Therefore, for a Cheating 3-Click Off/Off player, it is tantamount to being easier to play than Motion Swing Max/Max, which still has the exact same tempo requirements, as Motion Swing Off/Off.

 

The developers did a good job with Cheat-Prevention... for the Motion Swing. They have yet to carry this Cheat-Prevention over to 3-Click.

 

Until there is a Cheat-Detector for Slowing-Down-The-Meter, than 3-Click Off/Off will always be easier than Motion Swing, on any level.

 

A solution I would propose; is to add a Real-Time Swing-Clock to the 3-Click Swing, over the top of the Perfect Golf executable. The key is that the Swing-Clock has to be Real-Time, so that Slowing-Down-The-Swing becomes ineffective, precisely as ineffective as it is in Motion Swing.

 

Basically, the proposed Swing-Clock, would have to continuously sync up with the system clock, which would have to sync up with the world clock. If, by the end of the 3-Click Swing, the in-game Swing-Clock is determined to be out-of-sync (from the other clocks) by more than a reasonable amount, (i.e. 3 seconds or less) than the swing would produce a dribbler, as it does in Motion Swing, when the time limit is exceeded.

 

If done well, this type of Timed-Cheat-Prevention, would level the playing field, between 3-Click, and Motion Swing.

 

 

I'm not giving a seminar on how to exploit games. I was commenting on potential ways to prevent such exploits from ever occurring.

 

I'm pretty sure that some if not all of the developers would have some knowledge over such things. But, it's always good to take stock of existing vulnerabilities, ongoing.

 

Your OP implies that there is a current way to slow down the 3C meter. All I want to know is how that would be done, i.e. a 3rd party app, hacking the PG program or something else. I don't expect you to give a detailed line by line explanation.

 

You also imply that the developers have such knowledge. On what basis do you make that statement. It sounds to me like strictly your opinion of WHAT you think the developers should know. I'm sure they appreciate you giving them the benefit of the doubt, but...

 

Since this game is in development and the purpose of EA is to help define that development, I would think that you would want to share your 'facts' so that the developers can address them specifically. If not, than I can only conclude that you like to 'stir the pot'.

[tlvx]

You also imply that the developers have such knowledge. On what basis do you make that statement.

 

On the basis that the developers have stated on multiple occasions, that they were attempting to implement cheat-protection into the game.

 

Obviously, they would purportedly have educated themselves to the wares of potential exploits, if they were involved in the idea of prevention.

[Mike Jones]

Cleaned the thread of some personal stuff.

 

Yes we are aware of timing macros and slow down cheats for click swing as well as axis off cheats with motion controllers but fortunately we have ways to combat these exploits and some have already been implemented. As with everything in early access it's a work in progress. 

[Crusher]

Sorry, seems like I missunderstood some of the comments here. After reading the posts again, I think I have to apologize

 

Apology accepted.

[Crusher]

Here's why 3-Click is too easy, relative to Motion Swing... because of the big elephant in the room: Cheating.

 

On 3-Click Off/Off, Cheating is potentially far more effective - up against Off/Off Motion Swing... which, due to the insane tempo requirements, (and quite a novel idea, I might add) it is nearly impossible to master the Motion Swing, irregardless of Cheating.

 

The mere idea of Cheating- by slowing down the meter, or prolonging the tempo, in Motion Swing - would Not be effective, due to the time constraints built into the Motion Swing shot.

 

Alas, 3-Click isn't bound by any of those time constraints... which means, a Cheating 3-Click Off/Off player can slow down their meter until the cows come home, and until they have hit the perfect snap.

 

Therefore, for a Cheating 3-Click Off/Off player, it is tantamount to being easier to play than Motion Swing Max/Max, which still has the exact same tempo requirements, as Motion Swing Off/Off.

 

The developers did a good job with Cheat-Prevention... for the Motion Swing. They have yet to carry this Cheat-Prevention over to 3-Click.

 

Until there is a Cheat-Detector for Slowing-Down-The-Meter, than 3-Click Off/Off will always be easier than Motion Swing, on any level.

 

A solution I would propose; is to add a Real-Time Swing-Clock to the 3-Click Swing, over the top of the Perfect Golf executable. The key is that the Swing-Clock has to be Real-Time, so that Slowing-Down-The-Swing becomes ineffective, precisely as ineffective as it is in Motion Swing.

 

Basically, the proposed Swing-Clock, would have to continuously sync up with the system clock, which would have to sync up with the world clock. If, by the end of the 3-Click Swing, the in-game Swing-Clock is determined to be out-of-sync (from the other clocks) by more than a reasonable amount, (i.e. 3 seconds or less) than the swing would produce a dribbler, as it does in Motion Swing, when the time limit is exceeded.

 

If done well, this type of Timed-Cheat-Prevention, would level the playing field, between 3-Click, and Motion Swing.

 

I won't insult you this time because I want my objection to your hypothesis to be read by everyone and not get removed.

 

Here it is.  You would know right away if someone was slowing down the meter.  I give a player 15 seconds to make their shot. If that time gets surpassed several times in two holes I close the game, send them a message telling them "they play at too slow a pace for me".

 

If you cannot tell a cheater from an ethical player than you have a lot to learn.  A 3click cheat takes 30 to 45 seconds to make a shot.  I just need to see that twice in the first two holes and he is black listed.

 

Am I being too hard on that player?  Not at all. I study my golf games to be extremely good at them, just like business in life and other real sports I play.  I am not going to waste my time in a game with a cheater nor anyone who just "wants a social life" online.  I play to win, the cheaters play to beat the game and to be high onthe leaderboards.

 

Final words:  Mike and the rest of the crew have stated they are putting cheat preventers in place since day one.  Accept that as being definitive.

[tlvx]

I won't insult you this time because I want my objection to your hypothesis to be read by everyone and not get removed.

Here it is. You would know right away if someone was slowing down the meter. I give a player 15 seconds to make their shot. If that time gets surpassed several times in two holes I close the game, send them a message telling them "they play at too slow a pace for me".

If you cannot tell a cheater from an ethical player than you have a lot to learn. A 3click cheat takes 30 to 45 seconds to make a shot. I just need to see that twice in the first two holes and he is black listed.

Am I being too hard on that player? Not at all. I study my golf games to be extremely good at them, just like business in life and other real sports I play. I am not going to waste my time in a game with a cheater nor anyone who just "wants a social life" online. I play to win, the cheaters play to beat the game and to be high onthe leaderboards.

Final words: Mike and the rest of the crew have stated they are putting cheat preventers in place since day one. Accept that as being definitive.

Thinking that everyone that takes 30-45 seconds to shoot must be doing something untoward, is just an unproven assumption.

 

While I'm sure that may occur, there are plenty of players that are simply more deliberate than others, doing the math, waiting for the grid to load, etcetera. For a number of players, the game hasn't even fully loaded their turn yet, nor finished spectating the previous player's result.

 

Furthermore, How do you even know the player is using 3-click? Just because Motion Swing has a 3 second time limit doesn't mean a player will have decided what club to hit, or when to start their swing, on anyone else's timetable.

 

Trying to create a personal, "blacklist" of players, for not playing Speed-Golf is not accomplishing anything but alienating yourself from the community, based on your own extensive assumptions, and nothing more.

 

I think we could all agree that, it's better to have the developer's implement universal time limits, than to have vigilante users running around screaming liar, liar, pants on fire, based on their own self-righteous assumption that everyone only deserves "15 seconds" to shoot.

 

Also, let's not forget that there's nothing that says a player couldn't pull off another cheat, in less than 15 seconds. So, trying to time players - based on the eye test - when we cannot even spectate what happens behind their screen... proves nothing.

[Richard]

 

EDITED:

I think we could all agree that it's better for the developers to implement time limits.

 

I agree that addressing the 'cheating' issues should be left to the developers including what methods are employed. It could reasonably involve more than just time limits. I'm not techie enough to know what measures are available nor do I feel qualified to talk about how they could be implemented.

 

I think that this topic may have run it's course, but I'll leave it to others to make that decision.

[tlvx]

I agree that addressing the 'cheating' issues should be left to the developers including what methods are employed. It could reasonably involve more than just time limits. I'm not techie enough to know what measures are available nor do I feel qualified to talk about how they could be implemented.

I think that this topic may have run it's course, but I'll leave it to others to make that decision.

Implementing additional 3-Click time-constraints, that do not currently exist, is not mutually exclusive from other undiscussed methods being implemented as well.

The key is that there needs to be practical time barred protections for both swing types... so that we don't have users trying to play judge and jury out on the course... which, is both unsportsmanlike, and indefensible behavior, nonetheless.

Also, I'm not sure what purpose your post is meant to serve. The idea that a discussion should cease simply because a single user doesn't feel "techie" enough to participate, is ridiculous.