123 replies to this topic

[MistyLogic]

I just want to get my hands on Course Forge and start designing! I work for a software company and know how important user testing is and what is involved with ferreting out the bugs. I'd be happy to help out in any way.

[fungolfer]

I'm not very up to date on the internet anymore. Can someone tell me what Steam is? I have heard it mentioned many times lately but have no idea what it is.

Jerry

Steam is offering a full bunch of games. You can buy games there. 

[Dazmaniac]

I'm not very up to date on the internet anymore. Can someone tell me what Steam is? I have heard it mentioned many times lately but have no idea what it is.

Jerry

 

Jerry,

 

Steam is a game download portal, created by Valve (they of Half Life fame) and is free. You can digitally download games (either full releases, demos or early access) from within the portal, or some games can be updated to be Steam compatible and appear in your Steam game library by applying a 'Steam key' for the game. Some games are free to download/play, some are full priced, some come discounted.

 

Games you have installed are usually set to auto update, so each time you log in to Steam it checks to see if any of your games have any updates pending and queues them for update. This is good if you have early access BETA titles in your library as each time an update is released, when you fire up Steam you get the update.

 

To play games, you just fire up Steam, go to your library, highlight the game and press the Play button and the game loads up and off you go.

 

It has a big community and you will regularly see in excess of 5,000,000 users online, all playing a variety of games or posting messages/comments on the community hub pages of games or in forums.

 

Any time you delete a game from your library, if you had paid for it, Steam retains it in your 'back catalogue' so if you ever feel like playing it again sometime in the future, you just have to re-download the game files and off you go.

 

[olazaboll]

I have some basic knowledge of the APCD .... the upcomming of the CF and PP infact made me open up the APCD and my current project again after half a year break .

Could be a good thing ,maybe, that someone with just common knowledge of course designing tries out the Course Forge .... Must admit I felt a bit lost when I saw the APCD importing video ...

but Im ready to take the bulll by the horn and see if I can succed in doing an APCD import....... Need som advice on photshop though ....

Like to try the course... if there will be one ,,,,,  in PG as well ... so I sign myself up for both  ....

[shimonko]

So please... Let us have your thoughts on what you believe would be the best way for us to run this and select participants. After all, community participation starts here!
 
CJ

• Open betas with good alpha/beta management software. Let the community see all the issues reported, confirm them, add details, point out duplicates rather than have the devs sift through them all. Don't do email reports.
• You'll continually need fresh testers as current ones lose interest in later betas.
• Get the game in as many hands as possible. It's a lot easier to get funding or interest from simulator companies if 5000 people are passionately 'beta testing' your software causing a vibe everywhere than 50 sworn to secrecy.  
• Price: $10 to download the game or free if you say you'll help report issues. People will choose the free option and help to honor the agreement they have made and out of reciprocity.
• When the game becomes actually playable with only minor bugs, then remove the free option and up the price.
• CF and TI always free.
• A small select group is just going to leave you stranded when the people you thought would be good realize it's quite a commitment once the initial excitement wears off. It will also alienate kickstarter pledgers.
• Experienced simgolfers are good of course but you also need noobs relating their experiences sooner rather than later.
• Reward (trivially) those who are giving you great feedback along the way to keep motivation high. Let people know this is a great way for you to find future staff.

[chrisjpr]

Historically, Alpha testers should be a small dedicated group.  Constructive feedback which is manageable is what is most needed at the early stages by the developers.  I agree with the premise of a group for each aspect i.e. CF designers/Game players.  These groups would obviously require selection for the knowledge/availability that they possess.  When you decide to go forward to closed Beta, then the doors open for a further input of testers, again not too large but enough to begin honing the packages and provide unbiased feedback.  Finally Open Beta, possibly paid entrance to provide ownership and motivation.  Here large numbers matter as the numbers would be needed to test server stability.  I see a reduced fee model to provide funding for the final  releases.  

[axe360]

My last reminder comment. Don't have a large group, you will find many, many folks just want something to play with and therefore won't help test.. I know this from past experience....

[Dazmaniac]

My last reminder comment. Don't have a large group, you will find many, many folks just want something to play with and therefore won't help test.. I know this from past experience....

 

Sad though it is, from what I have seen in the past, Larry is right.

 

[shimonko]

It goes out even saying that it's right. If 1 in 10 give useful feedback you'd be over the moon. The problem with open betas is managing too much feedback, not too little and is why the community and good management software needs tame that. You've just got to ask what damage they're causing you.

 

Products today are continuing works in progress, they're never finished and the sooner you get something of some value released to real users (not just the long-time simgolfers), the more chance you'll develop what people want and get market foothold. This is a small team with an off-the-shelf engine developing a whole suite of programs. Foothold is what makes some well-funded company find another opportunity if they can't buy PP out, rather than employing 10 times the developers and grabbing it first.

[shimonko]

Also someone with no simgolf experience might innocently ask why he can't aim his putt by tilting his ipad and suddenly a killer feature comes to light and simgolf explodes to the masses. A small group of experienced PC simgolfers can miss things like this from being too used to the way things have been done, or rule it out because it doesn't appeal to them.

 

In my two weeks here, I've helped people overcome stumbling blocks in Unity and written my own Bing->CF terrain importer.  I wouldn't apply to be part of a small team as it's a commitment I haven't the time for and I'm not desperate for the game, but I would continue to help out with issues. Small closed beta, you're missing out on a lot of people who can give value.

[Barry]

I'd like to help test the CF and the game I have plenty of time on my hands

[Parboy]

Well please sign me up. Regardless of the group size I would enjoy the opportunity to provide feedback on the game.

[Dazmaniac]

 

Also someone with no simgolf experience might innocently ask why he can't aim his putt by tilting his ipad and suddenly a killer feature comes to light and simgolf explodes to the masses. A small group of experienced PC simgolfers can miss things like this from being too used to the way things have been done, or rule it out because it doesn't appeal to them.

 

In my two weeks here, I've helped people overcome stumbling blocks in Unity and written my own Bing->CF terrain importer.  I wouldn't apply to be part of a small team as it's a commitment I haven't the time for and I'm not desperate for the game, but I would continue to help out with issues. Small closed beta, you're missing out on a lot of people who can give value.

 

 

Appreciate what you're saying, but a small group of PC golfers wouldn't be using an iPad, they would be playing on their PC, so the 'tilt' idea wouldn't even come under consideration. That would be for a tablet tester to pick up.

 

Like an iPad tester wouldn't thinking about things he would do with a mouse, because he doesn't use one.

 

Also, how have you written your own Bing > CF terrain importer? CF hasn't been made available to anyone yet as far as I know, so how have you been able to achieve this? Or did you mean Bing > Unity?

 

[Harald]

Historically, Alpha testers should be a small dedicated group.  Constructive feedback which is manageable is what is most needed at the early stages by the developers.  I agree with the premise of a group for each aspect i.e. CF designers/Game players.  These groups would obviously require selection for the knowledge/availability that they possess.  When you decide to go forward to closed Beta, then the doors open for a further input of testers, again not too large but enough to begin honing the packages and provide unbiased feedback.  Finally Open Beta, possibly paid entrance to provide ownership and motivation.  Here large numbers matter as the numbers would be needed to test server stability.  I see a reduced fee model to provide funding for the final  releases.  

I totaly agree this Position. Because it makes more Sense to test in a smaller and competent Group then in a big one with also then lost alot of Time in Development.

[Tigers Agent]

My last reminder comment. Don't have a large group, you will find many, many folks just want something to play with and therefore won't help test.. I know this from past experience....

That's why you charge for the alpha beta. It creates income. If one chooses to play and not give input, how does that affect you?

Were dealing with a large group of folks who haven't had to chance to play any type of golf game since that craptacular TWO.

Larry, how did that beta testing work out for Tiger Woods? did it matter as to what any one persons input was?  I've been a 3 clicker for many years... your a tru-swinger Larry.. will PP get a equal share of both?  I had to install DX11 to play COD Ghost.. with that affect this game in any way? windows 7..8.?  I never created a course like you Larry.. maybe I'd like to try before I buy? 

It's amazing the hubris from some of the seasoned posters.

[billtrun]

I am also interested in testing, would think you would want a variety of computer setups to weed out playability issues also.

[axe360]

That's why you charge for the alpha beta. It creates income. If one chooses to play and not give input, how does that affect you?

Were dealing with a large group of folks who haven't had to chance to play any type of golf game since that craptacular TWO.

Larry, how did that beta testing work out for Tiger Woods? did it matter as to what any one persons input was?  I've been a 3 clicker for many years... your a tru-swinger Larry.. will PP get a equal share of both?  I had to install DX11 to play COD Ghost.. with that affect this game in any way? windows 7..8.?  I never created a course like you Larry.. maybe I'd like to try before I buy? 

It's amazing the hubris from some of the seasoned posters.

 

Removed as it isn't on topic...

[rwmorey]

I am a mobile app developer so I understand the development lifecycle pretty well.

I would especially like to test the course builder tool as I am very interested in building golf courses. I used APCD in the past but was frustrated by it so I am very much looking forward to your course designer.

 

Rich

[shimonko]

Appreciate what you're saying, but a small group of PC golfers wouldn't be using an iPad, they would be playing on their PC, so the 'tilt' idea wouldn't even come under consideration. That would be for a tablet tester to pick up.

 

Like an iPad tester wouldn't thinking about things he would do with a mouse, because he doesn't use one.

 

Also, how have you written your own Bing > CF terrain importer? CF hasn't been made available to anyone yet as far as I know, so how have you been able to achieve this? Or did you mean Bing > Unity?

 

 

My initial post I'd actually written "ipad is just an example" to stop people missing the greater point, but didn't think it was necessary. So the greater point is fresh blood can have a lot to offer, you need both. Experienced simgolfers already intuitively know how to use the user interface which could totally stump less experienced players.

 

With the importer, CF uses Unity's terrain so it's the same thing. 

[shimonko]

Historically, Alpha testers should be a small dedicated group.  Constructive feedback which is manageable is what is most needed at the early stages by the developers.  I agree with the premise of a group for each aspect i.e. CF designers/Game players.  These groups would obviously require selection for the knowledge/availability that they possess.  When you decide to go forward to closed Beta, then the doors open for a further input of testers, again not too large but enough to begin honing the packages and provide unbiased feedback.  Finally Open Beta, possibly paid entrance to provide ownership and motivation.  Here large numbers matter as the numbers would be needed to test server stability.  I see a reduced fee model to provide funding for the final  releases.  

Historically alpha testing is done on-site, and historically marketing doesn't come anywhere near alphas and betas.

 

But I was glad to see someone from marketing start this topic because history doesn't apply today. Btw I'm a software engineer and early on in my career, like most engineers, despised marketers. I see things very differently now.