107 replies to this topic

[trailblazergolf]

well I'm old links player for many yrs ---- just  because I like motion swing without a meter does not mean I think links is a better game--NO WAY---I've even deleted all links files --I'm a PG nut --lol---

and thank you mebby for reminding what MJ stated forgot about that ---

[Acrilix]

I tend to agree with frank70. I really like this overswing idea and the opportunity to add more spin, giving you more flexibility in the shots you can play, but I don't think PP have got the balance right (at least for me). There is too much mis-hit penalty compared to the spin gained and I find since I've moved up to Pro level that I hardly even consider it as an option because the risk/reward just doesn't balance at all. In real life I found it far easier to add more spin without introducing a huge risk to my shots. Yes, they were harder to pull off, but nowhere near as difficult as they now are in PG on the higher levels.

....and I'm playing click, btw.

[Buck]

I tend to agree with frank70. I really like this overswing idea and the opportunity to add more spin, giving you more flexibility in the shots you can play, but I don't think PP have got the balance right (at least for me). There is too much mis-hit penalty compared to the spin gained and I find since I've moved up to Pro level that I hardly even consider it as an option because the risk/reward just doesn't balance at all. In real life I found it far easier to add more spin without introducing a huge risk to my shots. Yes, they were harder to pull off, but nowhere near as difficult as they now are in PG on the higher levels.

Me too - I avoid overswing as much as possible as I simply can't hit a good enough swing once I go into overswing territory.

[mebby]

I've gotten pretty good at using overswing.  I just headed to the range and figured it out.  For me, I just have to speed up my backswing a little to get more power in the same amount of time that I takes me to get normal power.

 

But yes... it's a completely different feeling swing than a normal 100% power shot.  But with a little practice it gives you more flexibility with shot options - just another tool in the tool belt.

[Greensboronclion]

I over swing even at TP on my wedges now most of the time to stop the ball and yes its tricky but its risk reward and that is just like real golf.  I use Cleveland GC15 Wedges in real life and they can put quite a bit of spin but as Joe stated the harder you swing the more spin you get and that is where the MS is shinning right now.  Since I have worked on that over swing area and practices it my score have improved at TP and other levels and this game is really a lot of fun right now. 

[Stephen Sullivan]

Interestingly I have always "overswung" with Links powerstroke as I use the position of the ball in my stance to gain some degree of distance control. Depending on conditions, I can get huge amounts of backspin. 

[Buck]

I guess I just wish the overswing penalty was a touch less. I think I'm only one notch up from full assists.

[Acrilix]

The biggest problem with the overswing is that at present it seems to only offer more options to the very best players because they are the only ones that can risk using it. The very best players have an advantage anyway, because they are already better than the rest of us, so all this system does at present is increase the divide between the ones at the top and everyone else. I'm not really sure if that is a good recipe for the long term future of this game though. Yes, there should be some skill involved to pull off the best shots, but I think they still need to be within the capabilities of everyone to want to at least attempt them. I don't think that this is necessarily the case at the moment.

[frank70]

Still it shouldn't be necessary to hit a wedge 110% to pull a 60 degree back 5-10 feet. When a pro hits a wedge full power the ball zips back - not in the game.

The concept is great if you absolutely want to stick a 5 iron. But if you hit a 5 iron in the game with 110 % and are off only 0.01 in timing the ball goes right or left around 50-60 feet. Isn't worth it even trying for me.

[JoeF]

It's all about risk vs reward.  And you don't have to over-swing to the end of the meter.  I usually swing to the 12:30 to 1:00 position to get a ball to stop more quickly as beyond that the penalty of a mishit can really hurt at Tour Pro/Pro levels.  But there are those occasions where going balls to the wall can give a big reward.  It's up to each player to decide whether to play it safe or to go for it.  

 

Also, much depends upon the level one is playing at.  If you want to play at the higher difficulty levels then you have to be ready to accept the additional risks to get the rewards.  If those risks are too much for you then either play conservatively or drop down a level where the risk factor is more in line with your comfort and/or skill level.  One of the things I enjoy about PG is that I can have just as much fun playing amateur as tour pro even though I prefer the challenge at the TP level.

[Crow357]

Yeah, personally, I don't intentionally go over 100% ever.  I play MS amateur.  If I do, it'll be a missed GIR almost assuredly.  The only time, the penalty, for me, is worth using it, is on the wedges and <100 yards.  And even then, I don't use it.  I can bounce it in there 5 yards short and have it stop by the cup.  No need to spin it back.  A lot of time, I just drop the shot shaper to the next circle down.  It does make the ball fly a tad lower, but adds a little extra bite to the ball.

[frank70]

It's all about risk vs reward. And you don't have to over-swing to the end of the meter. I usually swing to the 12:30 to 1:00 position to get a ball to stop more quickly as beyond that the penalty of a mishit can really hurt at Tour Pro/Pro levels. But there are those occasions where going balls to the wall can give a big reward. It's up to each player to decide whether to play it safe or to go for it.

Also, much depends upon the level one is playing at. If you want to play at the higher difficulty levels then you have to be ready to accept the additional risks to get the rewards. If those risks are too much for you then either play conservatively or drop down a level where the risk factor is more in line with your comfort and/or skill level. One of the things I enjoy about PG is that I can have just as much fun playing amateur as tour pro even though I prefer the challenge at the TP level.

Joe, that is all well and good - but the wedges aren't right. I defend and praise the devs a lot .... but i don't give them a pass here. To spin a wedge back is no “risk and reward shot“ for a pro - it's easy for them to pull a ball back without going all in.

The problem is that we cannot change the angle of impact of th clubs. Some guys (Garcia) create a good amount of backspin by swinging more down on the ball (compression of the ball). So spin is of course dependent on club head speed ... but not only.

[Greensboronclion]

The biggest problem with the overswing is that at present it seems to only offer more options to the very best players because they are the only ones that can risk using it. The very best players have an advantage anyway, because they are already better than the rest of us, so all this system does at present is increase the divide between the ones at the top and everyone else. I'm not really sure if that is a good recipe for the long term future of this game though. Yes, there should be some skill involved to pull off the best shots, but I think they still need to be within the capabilities of everyone to want to at least attempt them. I don't think that this is necessarily the case at the moment.

If you look at the Real Pro's it's really no different as you have about five guys who separate themselves from the rest and it's the same here. There reality of it is that in any era there will always be a group that's superior than the rest.

[mebby]

It's all about risk vs reward.  And you don't have to over-swing to the end of the meter.  I usually swing to the 12:30 to 1:00 position to get a ball to stop more quickly as beyond that the penalty of a mishit can really hurt at Tour Pro/Pro levels.  But there are those occasions where going balls to the wall can give a big reward.  It's up to each player to decide whether to play it safe or to go for it.  

 

Also, much depends upon the level one is playing at.  If you want to play at the higher difficulty levels then you have to be ready to accept the additional risks to get the rewards.  If those risks are too much for you then either play conservatively or drop down a level where the risk factor is more in line with your comfort and/or skill level.  One of the things I enjoy about PG is that I can have just as much fun playing amateur as tour pro even though I prefer the challenge at the TP level.

I agree - I rarely go past 1 o'clock when I overswing.  Just not worth it and usually around the 12:30/1:00 mark is good enough to get the ball to bite really hard.

[Acrilix]

I'm fine with risk/reward, but in real life I never risked missing a green 30 yds left or right with my 7 iron simply because I was trying to impart some more spin on the ball, and I could make my wedge spin back with very little risk to the shot. It just seems a little OTT in this game, to me, but I can live with it if it has to be this way.

[Greensboronclion]

I'm fine with risk/reward, but in real life I never risked missing a green 30 yds left or right with my 7 iron simply because I was trying to impart some more spin on the ball, and I could make my wedge spin back with very little risk to the shot. It just seems a little OTT in this game, to me, but I can live with it if it has to be this way.

I do agree it is a bit to penal at times but I would guess they will tweak it as we go.  Hey sometimes in my real game when I over swing 30 yards would be a welcome relief. lol.

[mebby]

I think this is one area where we might have to accept a deviation from simulation in order to make the game play with the appropriate level of difficulty.  I agree that it's not typical to see someone spray a ball 40 yards off course just by trying to put a little extra juice on the ball.  In my opinion they are more likely to top the ball or completely mishit it than they are to hit it solid - but push/pull it way off course.

 

But I'm not sure there's a great way to replicate that other than what they've done here so I'm OK with it.

 

I DO agree with Frank regarding spin however.  I think they need to consider finding middle ground between what we had prior to this last release (too much spin on wedges) and what we have now (not enough spin on wedges).  I have more control over a 7 iron into a green that I do a wedge and that doesn't make much sense to me.  The only way I've learned to cope is to club down and overpower it so that I produce a lot of spin.

[Armand]

I'm not certain, but it is probably noteworthy that with aids turned on (even at minimum?), the spin effects are reduced.  So even getting past 12:00 o'clock may not result in what you expect, since the spin reduction aid(s) kicks in.  You may need to go well past 12:00 o'clock to get additional power / increased spin with aids on.  With the new Tour Pro level, you may have to go to "Custom" and turn off the aids to fully realize the effects of going past 12:00 o'clock.

[Arsam]

That is interesting Armand because based on the comments on this thread I have been practicing over swing shots and I cannot see any significant backspin on the greens playing at Pro Level.  Therefore all the arguments in favor of over swing for creating back spin are flawed since it only applies to zero aids which the bulk of PG players don't play.  So much for realism, since as another poster noted that this gives an advantage to the very best players only.

[mebby]

That is interesting Armand because based on the comments on this thread I have been practicing over swing shots and I cannot see any significant backspin on the greens playing at Pro Level.  Therefore all the arguments in favor of over swing for creating back spin are flawed since it only applies to zero aids which the bulk of PG players don't play.  So much for realism, since as another poster noted that this gives an advantage to the very best players only.

If this is true then it should be adjusted in my opinion.

I'll have to test it. Should be simple enough.