107 replies to this topic

[Crow357]

Ok, I missed something then.  I thought he wanted the meter gone now without integration with the golfer.

[Buck]

I still really hope the "horizontal swing" could be a first person view looking at the lie/ball.

I really want a game to go a direction that most other games haven't. I just really don't even need to see my avatar honestly and would prefer a cool mode of as close to "first person-ish" as possible.

[mebby]

Ok, I missed something then. I thought he wanted the meter gone now without integration with the golfer.

He does.

[trailblazergolf]

yes just watch ur swing not hard at all ---well take lil practice to learn ur player but once you do no prob---did it for yrs in links

[Armand]

Do whatever you think is best.  I cannot currently play the horizontal motion swing with the current gauge with any degree of consistency as the gauge isn't large enough.

 

By slowly reducing the sensitivity, you'll get to a point where the meter is plenty large!  You should be able to play with mouse speed in Windows and the in-game sensitivity to get close to what you're used to with PS, but I suggest  it's better to develop a completely new/different swing for PG - especially if you are still planning to play Links.

 

For the MS horizontal swing, I start the mouse at the 9:00 o'clock position on the meter and move it to the right toward 3:00 o'clock.  For me, I've settled on a sensitivity of 1.6 in the game, after experimenting between 1.0 and 1.7.  Lower sensitivities (<1.0) left me with no control of the power, as it always went well past 100% with a tiny movement of the mouse.  Higher sensitivities (>1.8) left me with too long of a swing where I couldn't reach 100% and keep the mouse pointer within the meter.  Sensitivity at 1.6 allows my meter to reach 100% (12:00 o'clock) with the mouse pointer slightly short of 3:00 o'clock.  This allows me to add additional power, even up to 122%/full power, by getting the mouse right over to 3:00 o'clock. 

 

My MS swing with the sensitivity at 1.6 feels much slower than my PS swing from Links (sensitivity there was 5-6 clicks left of default, if memory serves).  I would guess that my MS swing is between 2.0 to 2.5 seconds, whereas my PS swing was likely between 0.5 to 1.0 seconds.  I've really had to slow down my take-away/back swing speed, but the forward swing isn't too much slower than my PS swing.

[Greensboronclion]

if you get rid of that god-awfull swing meter for us motion swing that wud prob solve the prob

It's already been stated by MJ that you will have the option to take the swing meter off but also to keep it. With MS going without it would be total chaos as how would you know the over swing area is. Some things can't be taken out of the game and that is one.

[mebby]

It's already been stated by MJ that you will have the option to take the swing meter off but also to keep it. With MS going without it would be total chaos as how would you know the over swing area is. Some things can't be taken out of the game and that is one.

I agree.  The meter doesn't bother me in the least.  I see it as a necessary tool in order to tell what the heck I'm doing.

[Crow357]

I don't know how you'd play currently without the meter.  You'd prolly play just as well with the monitor turned off too, but hey, more power to ya.  I'll use the meter until they have avatar integration and then I'll use the avatar.

[mebby]

I don't know how you'd play currently without the meter.  You'd prolly play just as well with the monitor turned off too, but hey, more power to ya.  I'll use the meter until they have avatar integration and then I'll use the avatar.

LOL! We are talking past each other. He's saying that he wants the meter to go away when the swing is linked to the avatar.

I'm saying that unless we can tell when the swing is going into over swing territory by watching the avatar only (no mater) then I'll still want the meter.

[Arsam]

I still don't see the need for over swing in MS.  I know that back spin is currently tied into over swing, but that also makes no sense.  With MS as in RTS with LINKS most approach shots are not full swing let alone over swing, they are usually half to three quarter depending to the required distance so that tying back spin into over swing is totally wrong.  Once the swing is tied in with the golfer animation, a full swing would just stop an the end of the back wing and you would proceed with the down swing just as in IRL.  Then with practice partial swings can be accomplished by observing the golfers swing again as in LINKS RTS. 

With this setup it will only b necessary to control the tempo and straight movement of the mouse instead of also having to watch a swing meter to judge power.  As with LINKS RTS, MS will become a "feel" type swing based on practice and experience which I find very realistic and enjoyable to play.

[worrybirdie]

I'm a meter man myself! Hell, I even want markings on it that represent meaningful fractions of the swing.

But then again I'm barking mad! Ruff!

[IanK]

I quite often wonder why some of the old Links players here don't just continue playing Links and ignore PG. I think that some would be happy with a Links clone. I expect and want PG to have a fresh approach to video golf otherwise why bother? I also second the vision of a first person view, but I don't think it's ever likely to come to fruition.

[Greensboronclion]

I still don't see the need for over swing in MS.  I know that back spin is currently tied into over swing, but that also makes no sense.  With MS as in RTS with LINKS most approach shots are not full swing let alone over swing, they are usually half to three quarter depending to the required distance so that tying back spin into over swing is totally wrong.  Once the swing is tied in with the golfer animation, a full swing would just stop an the end of the back wing and you would proceed with the down swing just as in IRL.  Then with practice partial swings can be accomplished by observing the golfers swing again as in LINKS RTS. 

With this setup it will only b necessary to control the tempo and straight movement of the mouse instead of also having to watch a swing meter to judge power.  As with LINKS RTS, MS will become a "feel" type swing based on practice and experience which I find very realistic and enjoyable to play.

If you were to have the back swing stop at the end of the back swing then everyone could hit at 100% without penalty and that is and would be called TGC.  Again its been stated that if you don't want the meter there will be an option to remove it but you wont be able to know where the top is and in this game that means you will be spraying the ball all over the course.  There are only so many things about real golf you can simulate and if you want the real golf experience you must go play real golf.  For me the meter stays no matter what as it doesn't bother me visually and its part of the swing even when the Ani is tied to it. 

[Golden Bear]

Common sense would dictate that when the ani is tied to the swing all one simply has to do is use the meter for one swing.  Observe via the meter where 100% swing is then you know.  Then turn off the swing meter.  

[Stephen Sullivan]

I quite often wonder why some of the old Links players here don't just continue playing Links and ignore PG. I think that some would be happy with a Links clone. I expect and want PG to have a fresh approach to video golf otherwise why bother? I also second the vision of a first person view, but I don't think it's ever likely to come to fruition.

I will continue to play Links at the moment as I cannot get a mouse setting that works for me with PG without messing up my swing in Links. It also does to help that the gauge is off to one side of the screen.

Things MAY change when the animation is available, but until then I will continue to play Links.  As has been said elsewhere , we are all entitled to express our opinions as long as we express them politely.  I just happen to prefer a horizontal gauge as I have always played Powerstroke and never had an interest in clicking   

[ProFirefighter]

Yep.  But when you can't have kids.....

Ok. Your comment "... almost makes me want to have children. Almost." led me to believe something else.

 

Trust me, you don't want these genes running loose.

Ouch!

[mebby]

I still don't see the need for over swing in MS.  I know that back spin is currently tied into over swing, but that also makes no sense.  With MS as in RTS with LINKS most approach shots are not full swing let alone over swing, they are usually half to three quarter depending to the required distance so that tying back spin into over swing is totally wrong.  Once the swing is tied in with the golfer animation, a full swing would just stop an the end of the back wing and you would proceed with the down swing just as in IRL.  Then with practice partial swings can be accomplished by observing the golfers swing again as in LINKS RTS. 
With this setup it will only b necessary to control the tempo and straight movement of the mouse instead of also having to watch a swing meter to judge power.  As with LINKS RTS, MS will become a "feel" type swing based on practice and experience which I find very realistic and enjoyable to play.

This is one core difference between Links and PG and it's a critical one. The physics of PG are much deeper than Links.

If I'm 79 yards out I can play a sawed off 110 yard wedge or I can rip a 74 yard wedge beyond the hole and let it pull back. I'll chose differently depending on where the pin is and what sort of other issues I'm dealing with (slope of the green, wind, lie, etc). For instance, if the pin is tucked up front on the green right behind a bunker I may try my 74 yard wedge so I can land beyond the hole and draw it back towards the hole with spin. This is a riskier shot but one I know I can execute. If I have room to run it up I might use my 110 yard wedge or... I might even pitch with my PW and let it carry 66 yards and run up to the hole.

But to do any of that I've got to know where in my swing I'm entering over swing. For full shots this might be easier to judge without a meter. For pitch shots... No clue.

But the point is... Overswing is very important in this game (and in real life) and none of this exists in Links. So that's why having a meter for is critical for knowing when we are overswinging. Maybe there will be other ways and maybe we will be able to learn by looking at the animation. Not sure yet.

[Greensboronclion]

Common sense would dictate that when the ani is tied to the swing all one simply has to do is use the meter for one swing.  Observe via the meter where 100% swing is then you know.  Then turn off the swing meter.

You are correct that can be done and that is why they will give you the option to use or not use and that is the great thing about how they are approaching the game. Try and remember that not everybody wants a total hardcore experience and some want a difficult game but not one that gets totally frustrating. I don't understand why this issue is such a must for some and if that is the way they want to play that is fine but not all of us want or care for that. I am sure there will be a few real hardcore Country Clubs for this type of play so it shouldn't be an issue. The fact is I myself will be in one that has players of similar play Styles and that is how it should be not this is the way you have to play and take it or leave it.

[JoeF]

I still don't see the need for over swing in MS.  I know that back spin is currently tied into over swing, but that also makes no sense.  With MS as in RTS with LINKS most approach shots are not full swing let alone over swing, they are usually half to three quarter depending to the required distance so that tying back spin into over swing is totally wrong.  Once the swing is tied in with the golfer animation, a full swing would just stop an the end of the back wing and you would proceed with the down swing just as in IRL.  Then with practice partial swings can be accomplished by observing the golfers swing again as in LINKS RTS. 

With this setup it will only b necessary to control the tempo and straight movement of the mouse instead of also having to watch a swing meter to judge power.  As with LINKS RTS, MS will become a "feel" type swing based on practice and experience which I find very realistic and enjoyable to play.

 

Actually, Arsam, it makes perfect sense that spin is tied into the over-swing area as it more accurately reflects what happens in a real golf and a real swing.  As in real life the more power you put into a swing the more spin you generate on the ball.  As well, the more power you try to generate the greater the risk of a mishit.  Part of the strategy in real golf is to put your ball into a position that allows your approach shot to make the best use of the club needed to reach the green and attack the pin.  A half or three quarter swing does not generate enough spin to allow the ball to bite and check near the pin.  You would have to allow for much more bounce and roll-out on these types of shots which means you have less control over where the ball will end up.  If you want to hit an approach shot with lots of spin that will land, bite ,check or draw back nearer the pin you put your previous shot in a position that allows you to make better use of the full capabilities of the club needed for the approach.  If you leave yourself 145 yards to the pin it may well be the better strategy to overswing with a pitching wedge, getting more spin, than to underswing with a 9 iron.  The fact is that in Links you couldn't put additional spin on a shot so there is no equivalency between MS and RTS.

[frank70]

Great explanation Joe. But the concept of overswinging is probably only used by a few players. With the motion swing the timing required for a 110% shot feels so much different than playing a normal shot that for me it is always the very last option. The penaty for a slight mistiming in the overswing area is extreme. I see no sense pushing my wedge 30 feet left or right quite easily when i could get the same or a better result with a longer club swinging under 100%. It may be different for the clickers because the speed of the meter doesn't get faster when overswinging.

And: a 100% wedge should be spinning back. Most pros are hitting a 3/4 swing with their wedges to make the ball checkup. If they would hit their wedges with the same power as with driver from the tee .... those wedges would zip back a lot. So the physics of the wedges in the game aren't realistic. Something in between the current build and the one where 60 degree wedges spun back 30 feet+ would be close to the real thing.