64 replies to this topic

[footslogger]

Buck, on 02 Feb 2016 - 02:05 AM, said:

...but is "watching the cursor" something we should be doing at all in a real time swing?


 

 

Good point.  If we're focused on the cursor rather than the golfer I don't see how it is so much different from the current Motion Swing.  For  total immersion in the golfer's swing which RTS seeks to convey surely we need to be focused on the golfer one hundred percent.

[Buck]

footslogger, on 02 Feb 2016 - 03:34 AM, said:

Good point.  If we're focused on the cursor rather than the golfer I don't see how it is so much different from the current Motion Swing.  For  total immersion in the golfer's swing which RTS seeks to convey surely we need to be focused on the golfer one hundred percent.

Totally agree. Might as well just move the motion swing meter to be "around the golfer" in the center of the screen.

That actually would be nice for the Motion Swing no matter what happens with RTS.

[rane]

My toughts exactly. I loved the fluidity of the Links RTS swing control. Pull the mouse back a bit to "feel" how much power is required to the stroke...and push it forth again carefully (or just pause) to make the golfer reset the swing. I liked the 1:1 swing and how you could still get plenty of power on the shot, even with a half backswing by pushing the mouse forward on the downswing - making it a realistic push-shot just like one could do in real golf.

 

However, im positive about reading that most testers liked the new PG RTS swing after some getting-used to. I'm just hoping that it isnt the kinda "oh well i'm not very happy about it but its working and looking fine, and im focusing on the mouse cursor anyway so..." effect that makes people go "i can live with that". But as i said..i'll give it a fair try

[Parkle]

Totally agree with the three posts above.  I ALWAYS watch the golfer in a RTS stroke. That is , I believe , how it should be. Watching a cursor in a "RTS" swing for me is totally anti immersive. 

And with no real RTS control over the downswing, can this be called a true RTS shot ?  

Links 2003 !!    I was hoping that 13 years later there would be something significantly better with a true RTS swing.

Now I'm not so sure but of course I will give it a fair trial when it appears.

[frank70]

If the RTS is as sensitive and fickle as the motion swing i would say it is always impossible to play a straight shot without watching the mouse pointer. You have to be pretty, pretty straight with the backwards and forward motion with the mouse. Otherwise you get a quite considerable penalty for a deviation in swing plane and mishit (heel/too). Right now i absolutly need a reference point for my motion.

 

I am looking forward to trying the RTS out.

[Buck]

frank70, on 02 Feb 2016 - 2:52 PM, said:

If the RTS is as sensitive and fickle as the motion swing i would say it is always impossible to play a straight shot without watching the mouse pointer. 

 

That sounds like a great reason for the RTS to be a touch less fickle vs the MS

[frank70]

Buck, on 02 Feb 2016 - 2:55 PM, said:

That sounds like a great reason for the RTS to be a touch less fickle vs the MS

Yeah, and a minute later we talk about different grades of difficulty between the swing mechanics. It's almost impossible for the devs to balance that out. Huge fields with all swing mechanics together would be the optimum. But i more and more get the feeling that this goal will lead to nothing. But dividing the fields into 4 categories? Maybe the user base isn't big enough for that.

[mebby]

Interesting debate for sure (watching the cursor versus not).  I personally cannot see playing the game without keeping one eye on the cursor and one eye on the animation as I need to see the path of the cursor in order to judge the path of my swing.

 

But then again... this is all I know as it's how I play the game today.  At one point I also thought it was ridiculous to take away the swing cancellation on TP levels but as I have adapted to it I see now that this is probably the right thing to do.  So who knows... maybe if I were forced to use RTS without seeing my cursor on the screen I would develop enough sensitivity around "feeling" a straight swing path with my mouse (physically) and my thoughts of needing to see the cursor would change at that time.

[robbiet71]

I'm sorry but the whole 'for total immersion you have to be focused on the golfer' line just doesn't make any sense.

Do you mean 'immersion' or 'nostalgia'?

Immersion when I'm playing golf is watching the ball not my 'self'. Therefore immersion in PG is concentrating on making the cursor move in a straight path not watching an avatar do a swing.

I understand nostalgic cravings for what has been done in the past but please don't try and label it 'immersion'.

By that logic I could claim that for total immersion I need old skool graphics and a perfectly flat terrain with a bit of water scattered about due to the fact I loved Leaderboard in the 80s! lol

[Buck]

robbiet71, on 02 Feb 2016 - 3:27 PM, said:

Therefore immersion in PG is concentrating on making the cursor move in a straight path not watching an avatar do a swing.

 

Ok - So just use the Motion Swing, yeah?

I just think some people would like the RTS to be different than the MS is all...

 

If the RTS involves still staring at the cursor, I just don't see why I'm switching off of MS at all...just make the MS swing meter moveable on screen, place it near the center and we're done - No RTS needed as it's not different enough (in this scenario)

 

I've actually been a bit confused as to why the RTS isn't a controller only method of play as the whole concept of getting all information from the Avatar is particularly well suited to controllers I thought.

[Buck]

Just adding to my post above...

 

I guess I'm surprised we don't have:

 

3C:  Keyboard Swing

MS:  Mouse Swing (motion swing)

RTS:  Controller Swing

 

That setup would seem like it would actually help honestly, as then the preferences and control schemes could each be optimized as you'd know the input device for each method.  I know - I'll get blasted for the suggestion of "reducing preferences" (really it's just making design decisions...which Devs always have to do), but I guess I just feel the control thing is a mess right now.  So many variations...

[frank70]

Buck, on 02 Feb 2016 - 3:29 PM, said:

Ok - So just use the Motion Swing, yeah?

I just think some people would like the RTS to be different than the MS is all...

 

If the RTS involves still staring at the cursor, I just don't see why I'm switching off of MS at all...just make the MS swing meter moveable on screen, place it near the center and we're done - No RTS needed as it's not different enough (in this scenario)

 

I've actually been a bit confused as to why the RTS isn't a controller only method of play as the whole concept of getting all information from the Avatar is particularly well suited to controllers I thought.

It fits for mouse as well as we have seen in the past (PGA 2000, Links). But you should have a graphical indication what your club is exactly doing (swing plane).

 

Or the RTS should be way more leniant with the penalty. And then it would be no swing mechanic for me. I love the mouse swing, because it requires absolute precision.

 

Of course: Dividing the swing mechanics would be the easiest solution. So you could tinker them without having the need of comparing them to the other swing mechanics.

[Parkle]

robbiet71, on 02 Feb 2016 - 3:27 PM, said:

I'm sorry but the whole 'for total immersion you have to be focused on the golfer' line just doesn't make any sense.

Do you mean 'immersion' or 'nostalgia'?

Immersion when I'm playing golf is watching the ball not my 'self'. Therefore immersion in PG is concentrating on making the cursor move in a straight path not watching an avatar do a swing.

 

 

Immersion for me in a PC golf simulation is trying to "be" the golfer and that involves watching the avatar (who is "me") execute his swing. 

For you immersion seems to be watching your mouse cursor on your screen.

Nothing to do with nostalgia as you put it.  Everything to do with realistic swing mechanics attempting to mirror real life just a little.

But happy cursor watching to you.

[mebby]

One appeal of RTS is that the meter goes away.  So even if we still watch the cursor to keep our swing path straight we arguably have a less precise "power meter" now so it should theoretically increase the difficulty a little bit.  Or at least until people get fully calibrated on using the animation as a meter.

[MERACE]

Since PG is all about OPTIONS, why not have in the settings for RTS-M an option for ani or cursor?


-MERACE

[Ted_Ball]

The trouble with judging the swing via the ani is that the swing plane isn't animated. I don't see that happening for a long time.

 

I think Joe has the key to swinging while watching the curser. Your peripheral vision will give you quite a good indication of how much backswing you have taken. The curser path can be positioned to give you the best peripheral view of the backswing and I'm sure it will become a natural action after plenty of practice.

 

As for immersion, I'm keen on using the F5 function to position the camera above the ball from a real life perspective and use muscle memory to determine the backswing length together with the view of the curser on the screen. I'm not that keen on watching an animation of a golfer.  It remains to be seen whether this would be successful but it would be amazing if it was and would place even more emphasis on 'feel'. (I would be happy to have an option to turn off the golfer in the normal MS swing.)

 

It will be hard to maintain the preferred swing path without the guide of the gauge (6 to 12 o'clock) but I'm sure people will come up with measures to assist with that. Don't forget - the animation doesn't show the swing path.

 

Exciting times and these are stepping stones to Perfection.

[Greensboronclion]

Well all I got to say whatever the game has to offer me and my new Corsair M65 RGB Gaming mouse are ready and my putting is revived so bring it on. lol.

[Buck]

Related to this...I've bumped that feature request for moving the MS swing meter around before..

 

Is that still coming at some point?

 

I'm starting to think that the Motion Swing with my Meter close to the middle (perhaps even overlaying my Avatar) might end up being my holy grail.

[Stephen Sullivan]

I

 

Buck, on 03 Feb 2016 - 12:10 AM, said:

Related to this...I've bumped that feature request for moving the MS swing meter around before..

 

Is that still coming at some point?

 

I'm starting to think that the Motion Swing with my Meter close to the middle (perhaps even overlaying my Avatar) might end up being my holy grail.

I've given up on ever having the horizontal gauge I want 

[rane]

The ultimate mouse swing would of course be if the golfer animation somehow indicated whether your backswing was going straight back, to the "right" (often forcing a fade or slide from an outside-in swing) or to the "left" (could force a draw or hook) but thats probably close to impossible to do the right way anytime soon.

 

But Buck has a point...the RTS as it is Mikes video right now..is pretty much the mouse swing with a centered cursor you have to focus on. My opinion is still that a real time swing which synchronizes with the mouse...should be real time all the way, otherwise it just looks....off.