132 replies to this topic

[Ted_Ball]

Come on up Rubbish thread (currently in 3rd place to "Swing Meter" thread and "Operating System Poll" thread - yes but like 'Finnegan's Wake' how many people have actually read the Rubbish thread (and understood it? I might as well have written it in Russian))

 

So...I've been following, with a great deal of interest, the latest developments and posts regarding this greatest of all golf sims. I'm particularly excited about real time wind effects among plenty of other innovations. Having wind gusts affect the ball carry and direction has other implications in that there will be a degree of second guessing (meaning you might take a more conservative line or club on difficult shots) and will place more emphasis on putting skills (which is how it should be imo).

 

The application of anti-exploiting measures will be essential for the long term interest of all fair minded players. 

 

If there is one thing I am slightly less whelmed about it's the avatar. I understand that it was motion captured from some guy but there's a slight inside on the backswing and he comes down over the top which means the plane of the swing is all over the place. The real dude probably hits great shots but I bet not all that consistently. It's not a swing that I would like to see on myself but I won't carry on about it. I thought the original avatar in one of those short demo vids looked much better. Why didn't they get Monty - he's available for anything these days (apart from stand-up comedy).

 

Someone mentioned crowds recently and I was thinking (fantasising) about an idea whereby, as you, the player, rises in the rankings (if rankings might happen) then the crowds following you get more populated. You start with your mum and dad and a couple of other people following you around who aren't sure who you are and end up with thousands lining the fairways, throwing your wayward balls back into play, engaging in friendly banter, taking photos at inappropriate times with cameras off whom your caddy snatches and upon which he stomps.

 

The other issues that arise about cams and swing types and leagues and other variables won't be issues as long as these things are customisable by the player and there have been assurances that there will be ongoing developments for the game which will continue to improve the experience. This is wonderful news.

 

But all in all things are looking very good with Perfect Golf and I humbly admit I was wrong with any negativity I might have shown in the past. After all, the development team have only the original pocket calculator that was used to put a man on the moon to build this game and it therefore will take a bit longer (and its hard to find D batteries these days). 

 

It looks like the wait is nearly over and I will definitely be running some sort of comp at Club Verisimilitude where the settings will be the most difficult - back tees, firm fairways and greens, tough pins, no grids etc. As I will be the only member who signs up I should have a chance of winning everything. At least mum and dad will be there to watch.

[shimonko]

If there is one thing I am slightly less whelmed about it's the avatar. I understand that it was motion captured from some guy but there's a slight inside on the backswing and he comes down over the top which means the plane of the swing is all over the place. The real dude probably hits great shots but I bet not all that consistently. It's not a swing that I would like to see on myself but I won't carry on about it. I thought the original avatar in one of those short demo vids looked much better. Why didn't they get Monty - he's available for anything these days (apart from stand-up comedy).

 

I find his swing fine, I just feel the club closure through impact hasn't been accurately captured, which is tough with optical motion capture systems. If it indeed Jake Scott, snapshots of his swing elsewhere show his closure is as expected.

[Kablammo11]

I'm very easy in that regard. I do not care much at all about the verisimilitude of a computer avatar swing. Whatever it may be like, it still will look a lot better than my real swing. Come to think of it, I almost find a non-professional, somewhat weird or even slightly clumsy swing action a lot more preferable to one that is unbearably brilliant and perfect. It's an "Uncanny Valley" thing - Perfection always is intrinsically inhuman, worth striving for, but very rarely achievable (And I'm saying that here, where "Perfect" is part of the company name!)

A solid, but unpolished low handicapper swing, with a few quirks in it, strikes me as a bit more idiosyncratic for this particular game and its indie crew of makers.

 

Additional: I sometimes, in other golf games, felt a bit weird watching a perfect avatar swing resulting in a wickedly mishit shot whenever I missed the snap. The discrepancy between a perfect and fluid pro swing followed by a pitiful crap ball trajectory always felt like adding insult to injury. Wish there were a way to link the animation to the quality of the hit, somehow. No idea how. Just wishing...

 

It's an obvious and quick next step from here to come out asking for player customizable avatar swings - or at least for a base selection of half a dozen avatar animation sets ranging from "Weekend Hacker" all the way up to "Golf God" (Might even be linked to player progress in a career mode). Well, yes: Nice to have, by all means. But given the realities and the available resources, that would not be something that is bound to transpire in the near future.

[shimonko]

Additional: I sometimes, in other golf games, felt a bit weird watching a perfect avatar swing resulting in a wickedly mishit shot whenever I missed the snap. The discrepancy between a perfect and fluid pro swing followed by a pitiful crap ball trajectory always felt like adding insult to injury. Wish there were a way to link the animation to the quality of the hit, somehow. No idea how. Just wishing...

 

There is for motion swings, as Mike was saying with PGA2000. That dude even falls over if the swing is really bad (PGA2000 dude, not Mike).

It's just that you clickers keep golf games in the dark ages. 

(Opportunity seized)

[Kablammo11]

Touché!

Cliché!

Ah, the old cattle farmers vs. sheepherder divide. A classic Mouse Mover Hatfields vs the Click McCoys... 

[Ted_Ball]

In some wildly improbable future (starring Scarlet Johansson of course) we could probably manufacture our own swing plane in our own laboratory (desk) where we could build a default swing centimetre by centimetre giving us absolute control over our shots and subsequent results. Not only immersing us wholly in the game but also giving us a lesson in swing mechanics. The best mechanical minds would give that person an edge (*cough) over the opposition and motivate people to build the perfect swing. I dont know if anyone saw a long video of one of Tiger's coaches explaining (with Tiger as his dummy) the mechanics of the swing. It was excruciating and probably had a lot to do with Tiger saying to himself "Gott in Himmell (trans. "God in Heaven") to Holle with this" and set him on his later path to hackiness.

 

Or a simple mind control app where we put little wired pads on our heads and 'think' a swing. Come to think of it, that's what we do anyway - for better or worse. The future is now!! See me tomorrow.

[Dazmaniac]

Regards the golfer animation. It isn't MoCap.

 

How do I know? Because MJ told me so.

 

[Kablammo11]

Dreams of a wildly improbable future make it ever so slightly more probable. In 20 years or so we'll probably have a chip in our brains and a 24/7 WiFi connection to the internet, swinging our golf clubs mentally or importing our movements directly to our avatars. And it's Holle with an Umlaut: Hölle. 

At least that's what MJ told me...

[Ted_Ball]

Yeah, yeah. I didn't know how to Umlaut. Ya durak

 

In 20 years time I'll be a brain in a jar and probably thinking of Scarlet Johannson more than golf.

[Dazmaniac]

Dreams of a wildly improbable future make it ever so slightly more probable. In 20 years or so we'll probably have a chip in our brains and a 24/7 WiFi connection to the internet, swinging our golf clubs mentally or importing our movements directly to our avatars. And it's Holle with an Umlaut: Hölle. 

At least that's what MJ told me...

 

Also I'm not posting anything more about the MoCap, as MJ told me off about it when I last did so, lol. That is why I stated the latest animation sequence was not MoCap and that I knew because MJ had told me.

 

 

So for any animation updates, I would suggest asking him.

 

[shimonko]

Good job without mocap.

[Ted_Ball]

So I was sinking last night. I was wondering why nobody up and commented how fabulous my suggestion was about incrementally increasing the crowd numbers watching you as you rise in the rankings. As I sank further I realised that anybody who builds courses with Course Forge could add people as spectators wherever they choose. A clever little script writer could animate the people and have them doing what crowds do. A well hit shot close to the pin could generate cheering and clapping (forget birds and crickets - too depressing). An old codger of an official could hold up a "QUIET" sign as you address your ball and confiscate cameras. Silly fools who stand at exactly the distance where driven shots land could get hit and crumple and writhe on the ground, satisfactorally. A lone spectator could yell out "Get in the HOLE!" after every shot and other people could yell at him and call him a "Bloody Idiot!" 

 

Thats it. Nothing more to see. Move along.

 

I sink, therefore I am.

[Jim Boags]

 

So I was sinking last night. I was wondering why nobody up and commented how fabulous my suggestion was about incrementally increasing the crowd numbers watching you as you rise in the rankings. As I sank further I realised that anybody who builds courses with Course Forge could add people as spectators wherever they choose. A clever little script writer could animate the people and have them doing what crowds do. A well hit shot close to the pin could generate cheering and clapping (forget birds and crickets - too depressing). An old codger of an official could hold up a "QUIET" sign as you address your ball and confiscate cameras. Silly fools who stand at exactly the distance where driven shots land could get hit and crumple and writhe on the ground, satisfactorally. A lone spectator could yell out "Get in the HOLE!" after every shot and other people could yell at him and call him a "Bloody Idiot!" 

 

Thats it. Nothing more to see. Move along.

 

I sink, therefore I am.

 

Teddy,

I don't want this game anymore, don't need it. I get entertainment from your writings than this game could ever give me. (sorry PP team) 

Are you sure you are not developing a cult figure within the PP forum. Do us all a favour, never even consider leaving this forum, not even for Scarlet.

Jim Boags (and yes, you may call me James)

[Ted_Ball]

Teddy,

I don't want this game anymore, don't need it. I get entertainment from your writings than this game could ever give me. (sorry PP team) Are you sure you are not developing a cult figure within the PP forum. Do us all a favour, never even consider leaving this forum, not even for Scarlet.

 

 

Cynicism and bulldust Sir James. It's a lethal combination.

 

No, I'll never leave this forum. I'm going to see it through till the bitter end and beyond. These forummers are the only friends I have and, Sir James, you are the most valued.

 

So, are you prepared for the hippy invasion at Woodford? Do you stay and embrace hippiedom or do you clear out for a more sterile environment. I am still very much a hippy and always have been - although very well-disguised these days. I like to infiltrate the non-alternative society to keep abreast of their "ways".  And, besides, the beer is cheaper at the bowling club.

[Ted_Ball]

Did you watch "Snake" Chalmers final round and play-off against Adam Scott at the Australian PGA?

 

What a great spectacle. It remined me of Peter Senior taking on the Shark in the old days. An unglamourous journeyman taking on the athletic heart throb world No.2 and making a goose of him and his stupid broomstick putter.  Snake shoots a 64 in the last round against the leaders who could do no better than 71s and forces a play-off. They played the 18th as the play-off hole over and over - seven times. Snake went into the right fairway bunker six times and deep in the left rough and trees one other time but keeps halving the hole. Meanwhile Adam Splott hits his drives straight down the middle every time and at least 60 metres beyond Snake. He leaves himself a SAND WEDGE to the pin from between 127 and 124 metres every bloody time and leaves the shot short by 10 metres to the eact same spot EVERY BLOODY TIME (and misses the putt every time I might add). I'm the world No. 1 billion and 16 and I guarantee I would have learnt how to hit that shot to within a metre after seven goes. Steve Williams would have slapped him over the head.

 

Anyway, it highlighted the beautiful arbitrary nature of golf and hopefully PG won't have us being able to land the ball within a foot of the cup from 180 yards out EVERY BLOODY TIME and thus spoiling the glorious uncertainty of this great game. 

[Jim Boags]

Cynicism and bulldust Sir James. It's a lethal combination.

 

No, I'll never leave this forum. I'm going to see it through till the bitter end and beyond. These forummers are the only friends I have and, Sir James, you are the most valued.

 

So, are you prepared for the hippy invasion at Woodford? Do you stay and embrace hippiedom or do you clear out for a more sterile environment. I am still very much a hippy and always have been - although very well-disguised these days. I like to infiltrate the non-alternative society to keep abreast of their "ways".  And, besides, the beer is cheaper at the bowling club.

Never prepared for the invasion and yes I stay and embrace. Also interesting to see how a small town of 2,000 copes with 80-100,000 visitors over the week. For example, when it rains this small town can sell 5,000 pairs of gumboots in a week, then sells about 20 for the rest of the year, it use to run out of things such as beer, matches, cigarette lighters and cigarette papers (would you believe Teddy) For our overseas 'forummers' it's a little like 'Woodstock on acid' every year from December 26 to January 02. The locals are now used to it, after 20 something years, and we now service the event much better

 

Jim Boags

[Jim Boags]

Did you watch "Snake" Chalmers final round and play-off against Adam Scott at the Australian PGA?

 

What a great spectacle. It remined me of Peter Senior taking on the Shark in the old days. An unglamourous journeyman taking on the athletic heart throb world No.2 and making a goose of him and his stupid broomstick putter.  Snake shoots a 64 in the last round against the leaders who could do no better than 71s and forces a play-off. They played the 18th as the play-off hole over and over - seven times. Snake went into the right fairway bunker six times and deep in the left rough and trees one other time but keeps halving the hole. Meanwhile Adam Splott hits his drives straight down the middle every time and at least 60 metres beyond Snake. He leaves himself a SAND WEDGE to the pin from between 127 and 124 metres every bloody time and leaves the shot short by 10 metres to the eact same spot EVERY BLOODY TIME (and misses the putt every time I might add). I'm the world No. 1 billion and 16 and I guarantee I would have learnt how to hit that shot to within a metre after seven goes. Steve Williams would have slapped him over the head.

 

Anyway, it highlighted the beautiful arbitrary nature of golf and hopefully PG won't have us being able to land the ball within a foot of the cup from 180 yards out EVERY BLOODY TIME and thus spoiling the glorious uncertainty of this great game. 

 

Did you watch "Snake" Chalmers final round and play-off against Adam Scott at the Australian PGA?

 

What a great spectacle. It remined me of Peter Senior taking on the Shark in the old days. An unglamourous journeyman taking on the athletic heart throb world No.2 and making a goose of him and his stupid broomstick putter.  Snake shoots a 64 in the last round against the leaders who could do no better than 71s and forces a play-off. They played the 18th as the play-off hole over and over - seven times. Snake went into the right fairway bunker six times and deep in the left rough and trees one other time but keeps halving the hole. Meanwhile Adam Splott hits his drives straight down the middle every time and at least 60 metres beyond Snake. He leaves himself a SAND WEDGE to the pin from between 127 and 124 metres every bloody time and leaves the shot short by 10 metres to the eact same spot EVERY BLOODY TIME (and misses the putt every time I might add). I'm the world No. 1 billion and 16 and I guarantee I would have learnt how to hit that shot to within a metre after seven goes. Steve Williams would have slapped him over the head.

 

Anyway, it highlighted the beautiful arbitrary nature of golf and hopefully PG won't have us being able to land the ball within a foot of the cup from 180 yards out EVERY BLOODY TIME and thus spoiling the glorious uncertainty of this great game. 

Yes Teddy I agree.

Point 1

I think there is more than one world top 5 or top 10 player that has trouble sticking the wedge close. One is having 'a little break from the game' at the moment as the other is out own Scottie. Even Rory can be inconsistent from that 100-130 yard range. It surprised me alot when the world No 3 played 5 or 6 shots with nearly the exact same yardage and couldn't put it inside 15 feet.

Point 2

All summer long 'Snake' has been getting it 'up and down' from everywhere. Just insane. If I was to be on sight at any of this summers tournaments that he has played, i believe I might have been forced to go inside the ropes, pick up Snakes ball, race up to the scorers tent, seek out the printer, lift the tray and throw it in, because I think that would have been the only way he was going to be challenged.

It was great viewing

Jim Boags

[Ted_Ball]

Yeah Jim, Snake has been very consistent and could have won a couple more of our big three tourneys over the last two seasons here.

We should mention poor Wade Ormsby who missed a 3 footer on the first play-off hole and should have beaten both of them. He didn't come close. Its amazing what the nerves can do. 

Have fun at Woodford. May your sniffer dogs all have head colds.

[Ted_Ball]

We are all expectant fathers in the waiting room of this gaming hospital. When will this baby arrive? Will it be good looking and intelligent? (Please, please let it not have stumpy legs.) It's a fact that the hardest part of birth is during the gestation period. The morning sickness of worrying and frustrating coding problems - the swelling and distortion of the body of work as the baby grows - the irritability and unreasonable demands within the developer family. These are assumptions of course. I've never given birth or released a game. Thank goodness.

 

The birth itself is more a relief - a release. The pain will be forgotten.

 

At that stage the hard work is finished. The role of the parent will only be a bit of guidance as the baby is released to the world and totters through its early life. There will be the horror of the dirty nappies of glitches that will have to be cleaned up and there will be the sympathy and reassurance after the schoolyard bully of public opinion pinches hard.

 

The best news I have heard is that "Mike mentioned...his dream is still to be working on this in ten years time." The child has to be nurtured if they are to become a beautiful thing. It cannot be otherwise. World of Tanks is an example of an outstanding upbringing. Wargaming have maintained a huge following due to their constant updates and improvements and additional content.

 

But war is hell and four years is too long to be killing and destroying. And war is full of teams of numbskulls who bring out the worst in me. I long to get back home and walk the golden, misty fields of Perfect Golf without the crash of guns and the grind of steel and where there's a lake of stew and of whisky too - you can paddle all around them in a big canoe. 

 

Bring out the cigars.

[shimonko]

I'm afraid I was wrong when I said Mike hoped to be still working on PG in 10 years time. 

 

He said, "I still want to be working on and improving PG 20 years from now."