93 replies to this topic

[Safetyman]

TBH I haven't tried the RTS with the Elite controller yet... I'm still a noob at this game and trying to get good with the 3-click. I'll test it out this weekend and let you know.

[scajjr29]

I've used Xbox 360 wired, Hori HoriPad XB1 wired and a MS XB1 wired. The Hori & MS XB1's play the same, I find the XB360 controller to be not as precise ( but it is older and well used ).

 

Sam

[Greensboronclion]

Well I stopped into the local Gamestop and picked up on a whim the Xbox360 Afterglow and was not holding great hope out as I have heard it was not the kill all but for 31.99 it at worse would be another controller in the box that I could use so what the heck.  This time since I am new to RTSC I just started at Am level and went to the range and low and behold and I am hitting it way better than the Logitech F310 or Gamestop Xbox360 one and I am seeing hope.  Well I go to Woodys Practice area and shoot a +1 and like what I am seeing and later will go play a round somewhere and see more.  I also have the SpeedLink coming but I don't know when and will give that a whorl when it gets here.  I have decided since I cant play the MS swing due to Shoulder issue that I will play the Pro Pga Tour in 3C and play all my solo golf with the RTSC till I learn it better and can at least semi compete tho that could be a while but who cares.  The great thing is that the game gives you lots of options and that is what makes it great. 

[JCat04]

Greensboronclion, on 24 Mar 2016 - 4:07 PM, said:

Well I stopped into the local Gamestop and picked up on a whim the Xbox360 Afterglow and was not holding great hope out as I have heard it was not the kill all but for 31.99 it at worse would be another controller in the box that I could use so what the heck.  This time since I am new to RTSC I just started at Am level and went to the range and low and behold and I am hitting it way better than the Logitech F310 or Gamestop Xbox360 one and I am seeing hope.  Well I go to Woodys Practice area and shoot a +1 and like what I am seeing and later will go play a round somewhere and see more.  I also have the SpeedLink coming but I don't know when and will give that a whorl when it gets here.  I have decided since I cant play the MS swing due to Shoulder issue that I will play the Pro Pga Tour in 3C and play all my solo golf with the RTSC till I learn it better and can at least semi compete tho that could be a while but who cares.  The great thing is that the game gives you lots of options and that is what makes it great. 

 

I'll be curious to see how your experience goes with the Afterglow compared to mine.  I can hit it a wee bit straighter with the left thumbstick of the Afterglow, but by the same token, the responsiveness of the stick on the Y axis was a bit dull, and I couldn't control distance on short shots nearly as well as I do with my stock XBox 360 controllers.  It will be even more telling when you compare the Afterglow to the SpeedLink controller; I'm really anxious to read your report on that!

 

More to the thread topic, I tried my XBox One Forza Edition controller (the controller than came with my Special Edition Forza XB1, which is nothing more than a standard XB1 controller with a special skin) again today with Perfect Golf.  With it, I'm 30 to 55 degrees off plane on the left thumbstick..... and get this: 2 to 7 degrees off plane with the right thumbstick!?  I took to the course with this controller and the right thumbstick as the swing stick and painted every fairway for 9 holes and missed two greens long (only because they were partial wedge shots that I'll apparently never be able to discipline myself enough to back off on properly).  What I gained in straightness, I lost in touch though.  I couldn't feel a pregnant porcupine with my right thumb and naturally, I can't get a chip, pitch or putt within sniffin' range of the hole the right thumbstick.  I wind up shooting the same scores with the right thumbstick, but enjoying it less because of the lack of feel, at least for me... I understand that most gamers prefer the right thumbstick in golf games, or so it appears.

[Greensboronclion]

JCat04, on 25 Mar 2016 - 4:54 PM, said:

I'll be curious to see how your experience goes with the Afterglow compared to mine.  I can hit it a wee bit straighter with the left thumbstick of the Afterglow, but by the same token, the responsiveness of the stick on the Y axis was a bit dull, and I couldn't control distance on short shots nearly as well as I do with my stock XBox 360 controllers.  It will be even more telling when you compare the Afterglow to the SpeedLink controller; I'm really anxious to read your report on that!
 
More to the thread topic, I tried my XBox One Forza Edition controller (the controller than came with my Special Edition Forza XB1, which is nothing more than a standard XB1 controller with a special skin) again today with Perfect Golf.  With it, I'm 30 to 55 degrees off plane on the left thumbstick..... and get this: 2 to 7 degrees off plane with the right thumbstick!?  I took to the course with this controller and the right thumbstick as the swing stick and painted every fairway for 9 holes and missed two greens long (only because they were partial wedge shots that I'll apparently never be able to discipline myself enough to back off on properly).  What I gained in straightness, I lost in touch though.  I couldn't feel a pregnant porcupine with my right thumb and naturally, I can't get a chip, pitch or putt within sniffin' range of the hole the right thumbstick.  I wind up shooting the same scores with the right thumbstick, but enjoying it less because of the lack of feel, at least for me... I understand that most gamers prefer the right thumbstick in golf games, or so it appears.

Yes I to am using the R thumb stick and am much straighter with it than the L. I am going to play a round with every controller I have and will be having when it gets here and try and get a good comparison of all of them. My biggest issue with them all is the distance control and especially with the putting but that is going to be a learning curve on my end and a long one also. I played two rounds Thursday before leaving for the beach at Amateur level and shot 77 at Mill Creek and 78 at Braden Dunes and was quite pleased and surprised at how much fun the controller version was. I am playing events in 3C and have nothing against it but just not as immersive as MS or the controller and with MS to tough on the shoulder the controller will most likely be my new go to playing style. Really looking forward to Sunday night playing especially if the new update with the 64 bit is there.

[mebby]

Greensboronclion, on 26 Mar 2016 - 1:22 PM, said:

Yes I to am using the R thumb stick and am much straighter with it than the L. I am going to play a round with every controller I have and will be having when it gets here and try and get a good comparison of all of them. My biggest issue with them all is the distance control and especially with the putting but that is going to be a learning curve on my end and a long one also. I played two rounds Thursday before leaving for the beach at Amateur level and shot 77 at Mill Creek and 78 at Braden Dunes and was quite pleased and surprised at how much fun the controller version was. I am playing events in 3C and have nothing against it but just not as immersive as MS or the controller and with MS to tough on the shoulder the controller will most likely be my new go to playing style. Really looking forward to Sunday night playing especially if the new update with the 64 bit is there.

Distance control is probably the most difficult part of RTSC in my opinion. If your watching the club or the animations arms for your guage then you have to transition to your downswing prior to seeing the desired bacswing on screen as there is a bit of a lag. I think lag is probably the wrong word though... I think it's related to how the swing works. The folder has to have time to syoonhus momentum and transition to the downswing.

I've played RTSC a ton and I still have challenges with this.

[Greensboronclion]

mebby, on 26 Mar 2016 - 6:02 PM, said:

Distance control is probably the most difficult part of RTSC in my opinion. If your watching the club or the animations arms for your guage then you have to transition to your downswing prior to seeing the desired bacswing on screen as there is a bit of a lag. I think lag is probably the wrong word though... I think it's related to how the swing works. The folder has to have time to syoonhus momentum and transition to the downswing.
I've played RTSC a ton and I still have challenges with this.

Distance control is the biggest problem of most Amateur golfers and that is what is starting to intrigue me About RTS as it is a different game than MS or 3C with the gauge and I was slow to realize that but glad I have now. The putting can be brutal but once you will be able to practice more on a practice green it will get better but with changing speeds and surfaces it will always be a challenge but that is a good thing.

[mebby]

Greensboronclion, on 26 Mar 2016 - 8:01 PM, said:

Distance control is the biggest problem of most Amateur golfers and that is what is starting to intrigue me About RTS as it is a different game than MS or 3C with the gauge and I was slow to realize that but glad I have now. The putting can be brutal but once you will be able to practice more on a practice green it will get better but with changing speeds and surfaces it will always be a challenge but that is a good thing.

Glad you're coming around to RTSC! 

 

I still feel like RTSM and even MS both offer deeper, more connected ways of playing the game.  BUT... it's hard to ignore the convenience and the FUN of playing with RTSC.  Especially since it offers a very good challenge.  I don't think I'd feel this way if I were going out there and shooting 14 under every round. 

[Greensboronclion]

Really liking the Xbox 360 Afterglow controller and am starting to figure it out but putting still sucks but getting there.  Shot 68 at The Prelude using Am Settings and will move to Pro now as spent about a half hour just hitting shots at pro at Range and the controller seems to keep the ball staighter much better than the other two I had.  What I really am starting to like about the RTSC is the ability to shap the ball as that was the great part about MS but is lacking in the 3C mode where there you have to let the shot shaper do it for you and I prefer to manufacture that shot myself.  Lots of great things with the controller so far and I have found that sitting in front of my 32 inch monitor is a lot easier on the shoulders sitting back than upright at your station.  I think I will finish the weeks Pro events at RTSC and not care what I shoot just keep learning the swing as I just cant get into the 3C mode anymore as Links was the end of it for me.  Again nothing against it and I applaud those who use it as it is not as easy as most think especially the long game but just not as immersive for me.  Again love the many options to play the game.

[mebby]

Greensboronclion, on 27 Mar 2016 - 11:20 PM, said:

Really liking the Xbox 360 Afterglow controller and am starting to figure it out but putting still sucks but getting there.  Shot 68 at The Prelude using Am Settings and will move to Pro now as spent about a half hour just hitting shots at pro at Range and the controller seems to keep the ball staighter much better than the other two I had.  What I really am starting to like about the RTSC is the ability to shap the ball as that was the great part about MS but is lacking in the 3C mode where there you have to let the shot shaper do it for you and I prefer to manufacture that shot myself.  Lots of great things with the controller so far and I have found that sitting in front of my 32 inch monitor is a lot easier on the shoulders sitting back than upright at your station.  I think I will finish the weeks Pro events at RTSC and not care what I shoot just keep learning the swing as I just cant get into the 3C mode anymore as Links was the end of it for me.  Again nothing against it and I applaud those who use it as it is not as easy as most think especially the long game but just not as immersive for me.  Again love the many options to play the game.

G - if you're using the low putting camera then try disabling it and see if you find it easier to gauge the distance/backswing of your putts.

[Greensboronclion]

Mebby I am not using the low putting camera.  Maybe that is my problem and I will give that a try but it might be that I putt with the controller just like I putt IRL golf.  lol.  I will give it a shot in the morning and give some feedback.

[mebby]

Greensboronclion, on 28 Mar 2016 - 12:47 AM, said:

Mebby I am not using the low putting camera.  Maybe that is my problem and I will give that a try but it might be that I putt with the controller just like I putt IRL golf.  lol.  I will give it a shot in the morning and give some feedback.

Nah - don't do that.  The low putting camera actually makes it harder to gauge distance so stay with what you're doing!

[JCat04]

mebby, on 26 Mar 2016 - 8:11 PM, said:

Glad you're coming around to RTSC! 

 

I still feel like RTSM and even MS both offer deeper, more connected ways of playing the game.  BUT... it's hard to ignore the convenience and the FUN of playing with RTSC.  Especially since it offers a very good challenge.  I don't think I'd feel this way if I were going out there and shooting 14 under every round. 

 

I can see where RTSM might offer deeper ways of playing the game, with the ability of the "clubface" to hit the ball on the toe or the heel of the club, but I'm not sure I'd say more connected.  IMO, the controller's resistive, self-centering adds a tactile element to the swing interface that the mouse can't provide.  I would also say that in my case, it's not just having trouble controlling the distance with a controller, if you're using the left thumbstick like I am, you're much more likely to have even more trouble controlling the accuracy of the shot due to swing plane deviations.

 

I find my way to considerably more trouble due to poor swing plane control, although it seems like you and Greensboronclion would maintain that distance control is more of the challenge with RTSC.  If you guys are playing Amateur and Pro difficulty level with RTSC, you're ahead of me in the progression curve.  If I could manage any degree of touch with the right thumbstick for my short game, I'd probably be where you guys are in the difficulty level, because I hit the ball 5 to 7 times more straight (in terms of "live" swing plane deviation) with the right thumbstick on full shots than the left, when I try it out.

 

The more I play this game with controllers, the more I realize how much an individuals experience is going to rely on what they're feeling out of their controller.  I discovered Saturday that I have an XBox One controller that's just a little bit more forgiving with its left thumbstick than any of the other XBox One and XBox 360 controllers in my collection.  The fact that I'm able to keep my left thumbstick swing plane deviations between 30 to 60 degrees with it, compared to the 40 to 90 degree deviations I get from the rest translates into about 4 more fairways and GIRs in each round, putting me slightly above 50% FIRs and about 55% GIRs, albeit in Hacker difficulty.  What I can't describe is how much this more believable level of control bolsters my immersion in the game.  It's so much closer to a fused, associative experience that it's creepy.

 

The problem is that there's no cheap, practical way to "find" the controller that delivers the game experience we want, at least not at this stage.  The XBox One Elite controller probably lends itself to having the best chance of delivering the gameplay and the level of sensual stimulation I'm after, but it's certainly not cheap... but then again, neither is buying one $30 to $50 third party controller after another that *could* be that elusive diamond in the rough.  If I could somehow magically turn myself into a right thumbstick swinger, I wouldn't have to waste all this time posing these imponderable questions  

[Greensboronclion]

JCat04, on 28 Mar 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

I can see where RTSM might offer deeper ways of playing the game, with the ability of the "clubface" to hit the ball on the toe or the heel of the club, but I'm not sure I'd say more connected.  IMO, the controller's resistive, self-centering adds a tactile element to the swing interface that the mouse can't provide.  I would also say that in my case, it's not just having trouble controlling the distance with a controller, if you're using the left thumbstick like I am, you're much more likely to have even more trouble controlling the accuracy of the shot due to swing plane deviations.

 

I find my way to considerably more trouble due to poor swing plane control, although it seems like you and Greensboronclion would maintain that distance control is more of the challenge with RTSC.  If you guys are playing Amateur and Pro difficulty level with RTSC, you're ahead of me in the progression curve.  If I could manage any degree of touch with the right thumbstick for my short game, I'd probably be where you guys are in the difficulty level, because I hit the ball 5 to 7 times more straight (in terms of "live" swing plane deviation) with the right thumbstick on full shots than the left, when I try it out.

 

The more I play this game with controllers, the more I realize how much an individuals experience is going to rely on what they're feeling out of their controller.  I discovered Saturday that I have an XBox One controller that's just a little bit more forgiving with its left thumbstick than any of the other XBox One and XBox 360 controllers in my collection.  The fact that I'm able to keep my left thumbstick swing plane deviations between 30 to 60 degrees with it, compared to the 40 to 90 degree deviations I get from the rest translates into about 4 more fairways and GIRs in each round, putting me slightly above 50% FIRs and about 55% GIRs, albeit in Hacker difficulty.  What I can't describe is how much this more believable level of control bolsters my immersion in the game.  It's so much closer to a fused, associative experience that it's creepy.

 

The problem is that there's no cheap, practical way to "find" the controller that delivers the game experience we want, at least not at this stage.  The XBox One Elite controller probably lends itself to having the best chance of delivering the gameplay and the level of sensual stimulation I'm after, but it's certainly not cheap... but then again, neither is buying one $30 to $50 third party controller after another that *could* be that elusive diamond in the rough.  If I could somehow magically turn myself into a right thumbstick swinger, I wouldn't have to waste all this time posing these imponderable questions

 

​

JC I am beginning to believe there is now difference in the controllers but more just on our swing itself and not sure if the Elite is worth the money we would have to pay for it.  As for the short game of the Pitch and Flop I now know where my points are for 50%, 75% and 100% with a lot of practice and it will take a lot more to get it right.  Now as for the levels I am pretty sure I can keep it under par at Am level but Pro is a whole other story as my best round so far has been a 77 and that wont cut it out on tour.  The good news is that I am really enjoying playing and that is all that counts.

[JCat04]

Greensboronclion, on 28 Mar 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

​

JC I am beginning to believe there is now difference in the controllers but more just on our swing itself 

 

If you mean there is no difference (which is what I think you meant) in controllers, I could produce some scientific proof that there is... at least with my left thumbstick swing. I can take my XBox One Forza Edition controller to the practice range and using the left thumbstick, produce shot after shot between 30 and 50 degree swing path deviation.  I can then take any of my other XBox One, or XBox 360 (Microsoft brand) controllers and they'll all be in the 50 to 90 degree deviation range, as reported on the practice tee.  My XBox 360 Afterglow controller comes in at between 35 and 60 degree deviations, again all with the left thumbstick.

 

What does this translate to in terms of performance on the course?  With the XBox One Forza Edition controller (which is nothing more than a stock XBox One controller with a special Forza themed skin), I'll average four or five less strokes a round.  I hit a few more fairways and greens in regulation, but almost as importantly, my misses aren't as severe so I have a better chance of getting up and down.  With the Afterglow controller, the sligher degree of control I have with it in terms of straightness is about equally offset by my lack of distance control/feel.  The left thumbstick on this controller just doesn't feel as responsive as my other 360 controllers.  

 

The bottom line for me is this... I just can't get over how much a subtle difference in controller performance affects my experience with Perfect Golf.  It was like I stepping into a different, more immersive reality with what I experienced Saturday when I put the XBox One Forza Edition controller through its paces for the second time.  I'm not so sure I did an individual controller calibration for it in Windows the first time I used it.  I did it with this controller before starting Saturday though.

 

Here's the kicker; I sense no difference in the feel of the performance using the right thumbsticks on these controllers, although my deviation numbers showed anywhere from 2 to 27 degrees, with my wireless XBox 360 Silver Edition controller being the most faithful at 2 to 8 degrees.  I'll also freely admit that this is on me, not on the controllers, I just don't have anywhere near the degree of tough with my right thumb as my left, at least when it comes to manipulation thumbsticks on game controllers.

[mebby]

The one thing that I've found interesting in using RTSC is that I'm finding some interesting variability in my ability to hit the ball straight from day to day (not round to round, but day to day).  Some days I feel like I'm in a groove and nothing will really pull me off track.  I can hit it straight on demand and have some really fantastic rounds (call it -8 or -9 on TP level).  And then there are days where I'm struggling to find fairways and greens and on those days I'm doing great to shoot par.  

 

I had very early success with RTSC as I was finding it extremely easy to hit the ball straight.  Part of that success HAS to be that in those early days I was focusing on never overswinging.  In fact, with RTSC you can underswing (call it 95% power or so) and then push the stick forward very quickly and still achieve distances that are normally associated with 100-105% power because of the power gain you receive.  So you can actually cheese the game a bit by underswinging but using a quicker downswing.  This will allow you to hit the ball straighter on a more regular basis for sure.

 

But there's more to it than just underswinging for me.  Sometimes I can't find center.  I don't know if it's down to variability in the controller on a day to day basis or if it's variability in my physical swing process.  Last night I had to work extremely hard and focus on every shot at Winged Foot to pull off a round of 4 under par at TP level.  To me - this is extremely satisfying as it's no walk in the park to play at TP level and that's the way it should be.

 

Jcat - I haven't followed every step along the way for your search of the perfect controller but it's my opinion that you probably won't find it.  I honestly think it comes down to swing technique so you might be better off just sticking with the best controller you've found so far and really working on what sorts of swing techniques yield the best results for you and then continue to hone in on that.  I'm not a thumb swinger.  I pinch the stick with my thumb and index finger.  I've tried swinging with my thumb only and I am ALL OVER THE PLACE using that method.  I know that your dead set on both using the left stick and using your thumb only and that's commendable but I doubt I could personally get above Amateur level doing it that way.

[Greensboronclion]

Well I just played The fun event at Abottsbury and at Pro and with a stimp of 14 and I shoot 85 and forget the putting.  I am sure I will be flagged for saying this but the putting is just impossible and a four ft putt in a video game has never been this hard.  I personally think its even harder than TGC putting model which I feel sucks at best.  Hitting the ball is not bad and quite a lot of fun but when you get to the green and you just want to get to the next tee its not a good thing.  I understand the concept which is to feel the put just as you do IRL golf but come on there has to be some give to as I had 34 putts and that didnt include the putts I hit from the fringe so my best guess is that I used the putter 40 plus times and that is just nuts.  The problem is that when you are at Am level and jump to Pro its just about as hard as TP and this leads me to believe I will have to dump both and just play Am level as I refuse to hit 40 plus putts everytime I play and shoot 85.  Yes it was 14 stimp but again to have a 4 ft putt and then 10 ft coming back is crazy.  What we really need is a level between Am and Pro which is a little more forgiving and uses the Mod Mod aids but for now there is no way a controller guy can compete with the 3C or MS group as the putting and yes I cant believe I am saying it is so much easier to achieve.  By the way my caddie Leonard is passed out in the 19 hole bar as it was quite brutal out there for him.

[Greensboronclion]

Ok some help here as I have played a couple more rounds and the putting is a little better but I still suck but now I ask anyone about the three second rule.  Does it not exist for Pro and also for TP which I have not tried yet?  It seems I can take the club back and hold it there and swing in lets say five seconds and still hit the ball which would never happen in MS.  As for the putting well I got it down to 33 putts and at Pro so I a getting there.  Also I tried the Gamestop Xbox360 again and it in no way is anywhere near as accurate as the Afterglow so if that is a statement for the thing I don't know but just passing that on.

[JCat04]

Greensboronclion, on 28 Mar 2016 - 8:59 PM, said:

Ok some help here as I have played a couple more rounds and the putting is a little better but I still suck but now I ask anyone about the three second rule.  Does it not exist for Pro and also for TP which I have not tried yet?  It seems I can take the club back and hold it there and swing in lets say five seconds and still hit the ball which would never happen in MS.  As for the putting well I got it down to 33 putts and at Pro so I a getting there.  Also I tried the Gamestop Xbox360 again and it in no way is anywhere near as accurate as the Afterglow so if that is a statement for the thing I don't know but just passing that on.

 

I had disastrous putting round at Clay Hill under Hard firmness/13 stimp conditions using my XBox One Forza Edition controller.  I'm hitting more greens with this controller, but leaving myself longer putts, on average.  I had a 35 footputt that was 23 inches downhill.  I ran it 84 feet past the hole and off the green  A number of the longer putts I was unable to get the ball within 20 feet of the hole.  It would have been a different story with medium firmness and 11 stimp greens.  I've got a much better chance with the controller there.

 

As for the Gamestop 360 verus Afterglow controller findings you report, I had the same results. The Gamestop controller is horrible for chipping and putting because it's so insensitive.  

[Greensboronclion]

JC you are dead right on the chipping with the Gamestop Controller.  I just played the first round of the RTS event at Three sisters and was +8 after 3 holes but somehow managed to keep my cool and ended up at +10 and at Pro that is a keeper right now.  Putted a little better but it was stimp of 12 and 14 is just brutal.  Hitting the ball really well with the new Afterglow and love how I can either Draw or fade but Draw a littler better and more reliable right now.  I will have to check my Putting stats at OGT but they had to be better than before and distance on the 10 ft and in ones are really my bigger problem as it seems I can get my long ones with in 5 ft but those short ones are harder than my IRL putts of that distance.  Its a work in progress but there is only one way to go and that is up or in golf terms lower.  Looking forward to the RTS Tour as it looks like I am not the only one with struggles right now and it should be a lot of fun and good competition coming up.