316 replies to this topic

[mebby]

Your joking Right?  That's the excuse?  Bandon Trails is not as easy as you think but it was this week.

I agree with Frank.  Bandon Trails is one of the easiest courses in the game.  The first time I played it (FIRST TIME) I shot a 59.  That was my first ever sub-60 round in this game.  The second time I played it I shot 57 or 58 (can't remember but it was marginally better than my first round).

 

It's definitely an easier course.

[JoeF]

HIghfade, set yourself up on RTS-M horizontal swing, disable the BLI and grids, start a round and when you get to the first tee hit Ctrl-Alt-U.  Now play the round.  (if you need to drop/rehit turn the HUD on, drop and then turn it off)  The only thing more real requires a golf club in your hand.

[mebby]

Some players care not about others.  These elitists want the game exactly to their specifications and damn the rest of us.  It is a selfishness I have rarely seen thankfully.

This is just not even remotely true GB.  I might believe you if there weren't multiple difficulty levels and multiple ways to play (3C, MS, RTSM, RTSC) but there are.

 

I'm not trying to be flippant and I'm not trying to start an argument but I'm just curious as to why you feel this way?  If there are people pushing for the toughest level in the game to be a little more difficult then why does that equate to those players not caring about others?  No one is suggesting that ALL levels be made more difficult.  No one is suggesting that EVERYONE has to play on the same level.

 

And why do you feel that PP caters to the supposed 10% that are bringing up these topics?  And even if they are why does that impact you?  Do you play on TP?  Do you play with RTSM or RTSC?  If not then none of this affects you at all.  

[Acrilix]

Personally I just don't think it's a good idea to mess with a game's mechanic once it has been 'released' .... these things should be sorted out while the game is being developed. All you are ever going to get when you make changes are a lot of very angry people who preferred things the way they were and will respond with forum rants and negative reviews. A few will end up happier, but at what cost? If you are going to introduce changes they have to be new additions that still retain the old ones, and that would mean a brand new swing.... 3C Advanced! I'm not sure how even more options at this stage would go down though, as we already have more than the devs can cope with, judging by the constant addition of new bugs whenever the slightest adjustment to the game is made. It seems to me that a little game streamlining is actually in order at the moment, but again, you shouldn't really remove anything from a 'released' game or you will get the same negative responses from the unhappy ones that liked it the way it was.

The biggest problem for PP is that the game was always intended to be in development even after release, and so upsetting people is probably just going to be par for the course anyway! 

[Crusher]

Imho, this game is the best out there for PC golf and a game it is. I play 3C as you all probably are aware and 3C only..

 

 

You, myself and 25 others can play this game at Pro or Tour Pro level and have decent to exceptional scores.  You, me and others have learned to compensate for the glitches but we are also students of the game, we want to shoot beyond average scores. That's our nature.

 

Until we see dozens more come to this forum with glowing reviews and swing-type satisfaction there is much work to be done.

 

I want everyone to have as much fun and glitch-free golfing as possible. I want them to be able to endorse the game too.

 

==========================

I am going to copy and paste a post that explains why we are able to play at the levels we do.

 

I always keep in mind the three factors involving a good gaming experience.

 

1. The Rig's performance

 

2. The gamer's reflexes/hand-eye coordination

 

3. Internet Latency/Ping

 

Playing at higher levels of difficulty means all three of the above are excellent.  Therefore, any individual's choice of difficulty is going to be determined by 1, 2 or 3 of these factors.

 

Personally, I have never thought of anyone playing at a lower or higher level as being a "less than good player" or a "better than good player". 

 

As long as we find our own comfortable level, that's all that matters.

[StoneComet]

To begin with I do not play 3-click much. I've tried it but not to the extent that I can give any kind of real opinion as to it's virtues and failings.

 

I'm reading through this thread and it's full of the usual suspects. That is not meant as a derogatory statement it's simply an observation. I'm not even sure what the structure and compliment of the closed BETA team is or was. It sounds like from my limited knowledge that I have that the closed BETA group is becoming in the eyes of those outside or is being associated with an elite group that seems to direct the game into channels that they prefer. I'm sure PP keeps some of this in check. I'm also unsure of how collaborative the process is.

 

What I would like to see here are the opinions of many more 3-click players. If the general consensus agree with the OP then the discussion should be open for some changes. But where is that on the road map or is it there at all. This should be clear to the closed BETA team in my opinion.

 

Does PP inform the group what their current priorities for game development are? Are they very clear about their road map and keep it updated? At any rate it sounds like the game and it's player base are ready for a change and for a couple of reasons if my limited impressions are correct.

 

In the beginning it was OK for PP to rely on a limited group for BETA testing and for advice on how to move forward. If the goal is to now expand the games commercial appeal in advance of console release or even just to keep developing the game and expands it's PC player base then closed BETA should be a thing of the past and PP should start developing access to OPEN BETA TESTING and provide a board for feedback from the entire player base that wishes to contribute.

 

This could be done two ways. PP could just end the closed BETA group and rely on the forums to gather feedback on each new release but that would be unwise as it would create a very small Q & A team. The other would be to open up the BETA so all of the player base can test the next build and provide some feedback. I've seen some games take this route and it is almost always beneficial as no one who wants to contribute feels left out. It allows more of the player base to feel involved. Most importantly the developers get more accurate feedback from a larger base which is almost always a good thing.

 

I cannot imagine why 3-click dissatisfaction is falling on deaf ears in the closed BETA group. Unless there are just too few 3-clickers in the group. Perhaps PP will revisit the issue but their current development plan has it on the back burner.

 

As to difficulty levels, there are plenty. Tour Pro should be the Elite playing group and should make up a small percentage of the player base. Pro on the other hand should be difficult but accessible to a significant portion of the player base. TP should be OFF/OFF and if PP adds the Grid and BLI off within the API, then even better.

 

Physics and swing mechanics. PP is so very close at least from my limited RTSH experiences at PRO level. I think across the board if you return TOUR PRO to OFF/OFF then PP could reduce the overall tempo penalty slightly making .24 - .26 non penal which opens up the tempo for a bit more variance without any penalty. I personally do not need to see this but I think overall the game is getting too close to being too frustrating for most players at anything above Amateur. I think it's a change that would be good for the games overall appeal.

 

That is my personal position anyway even if it takes a little bit away from my personal enjoyment and challenge. I would agree that some of the short game club mechanics require some minor tweaking but over all at PRO level RTSH the game seems a bit too difficulty at least in establishing decent and go to tempo for every shot because the tempo is too restrictive. I'm pretty sure the supposed 10% or the gaming savants will disagree but maybe not. I think some of them would like a little flexibility in tempo mechanics.

 

For myself the game is great but I'm a bit of a masochist when it come to golf video games. What is required now is a better general consensus on the state and direction of the game. Perhaps a mass e-mail survey from PP would be helpful to capture some of the silent majority and open up the BETA testing to all. Make it easy to access and test the BETA build and market the change sufficiently so everyone that visits the forums or the main website are aware of open BETA testing and how to contribute.

[Greensboronclion]

I agree with Frank.  Bandon Trails is one of the easiest courses in the game.  The first time I played it (FIRST TIME) I shot a 59.  That was my first ever sub-60 round in this game.  The second time I played it I shot 57 or 58 (can't remember but it was marginally better than my first round).

 

It's definitely an easier course.

 

 

Well you play TP and have mastered this game so I can see why its boring to you but for the other 9 out of 10 of us that struggle its a great game.  Maybe if the controller is so easy why not try some of the other swings and give them a whorl and maybe it will challenge you more than it is with the controller.  This game is as hard as I have ever played in video golf and we still have not gotten to the point of Links where it -75 every week to win so to me its just fine the way it is.

[Sliceapottomus]

A+.

 

 

RTS FedEx Playoffs

There are a total of 29 players under par and the leader is -53 2nd -47 3rd -41 a bunch of players in the -30's and a bunch in the -20 and 10's

There are a total of 13 players over par with the worst +58

Well never seen a leaderboard on the PGA tour like this and this is just and old fashioned Links 2003 shootout and not realistic at all. 

 

Just my two cents and I am sure I will be flogged for this but it is what it is.

 

1ST THIS TOUR IS MOSTLY CONTROLLER  TAKE OUT 3 CLICK IN THE FIRST TWO TOURS AND RE-EVALUATE THE NUMBERS YOU WILL SEE NOT APPLES TO APPLES ....AND WE ALL KNOW THAT CONTROLLERS HAVE NO PENALTY IMPOSED BY THE GAME CODE OTHER THAN HOW YOU MOVE THE JOY STICK... AND WE ALL KNOW THAT NOT ALL CONTROLLERS ARE CREATED EQUAL.. THAT BEING SAID.....

WELL YOU ARE RIGHT. THE FIRST RTS TOURNAMENT WAS WAY TO EASY.....THIS WAS DONE BY SOME DESIGN AS THERE WERE ONLY ABOUT 98 PEOPLE THAT EVEN FINISHED A ROUND THE WHOLE SEASON. HOWEVER I WAS SURPRISED IT PLAYED THAT EASY AND DON'T YOU WORRY THE UPCOMMING 3 TOURNIES WILL BE MORE DIFFICULT.

[mebby]

Well you play TP and have mastered this game so I can see why its boring to you but for the other 9 out of 10 of us that struggle its a great game.  Maybe if the controller is so easy why not try some of the other swings and give them a whorl and maybe it will challenge you more than it is with the controller.  This game is as hard as I have ever played in video golf and we still have not gotten to the point of Links where it -75 every week to win so to me its just fine the way it is.

LOL!  Calm down dude... I have, in no way, mastered the game.  I'm not leading tournaments every single week.  And I've played with every swing currently in the game.  I love them all except for 3C.  I play with RTSC because it provides me with the best of both worlds (comfort and challenging but fun gameplay).

 

I don't necessarily push for things to become more difficult just because I find them too easy.  I push for them to become more difficult to make it more realistic and in-line with real world stats (which I KNOW just irritates the snot out of some people but that's not my concern).

 

But either way - you can't tell me that Bandon Trails is as difficult as Merion.  You can't even tell me than Bandon Trails is as difficult as Illinois.  It's an easier track plain and simple and that will always result in lower scores and higher FIR%.  Bandon Trails is a beautiful and fun course to play but as it relates to difficulty it's on par with Golden Meadows and maybe even a hair easier.

[DivotMaker]

Of course the experience varies because we use different swing methods. Some elements of the game, or certain shots tend to be a tad easier with the one or the other swing method. Probably that will never go away entirely.

 

We disagree about the scrambling. Imho the physics aren't right. I started a thread a few months ago where i posted videos of the different shots. I mean in the game you can stop a flop shot out of the rough almost on a dime. You can pitch it out of the rough with real "check" on the ball. And the chips out of the rough often look like these "bounce-bounce-check"-chips we normally would expect playing it from the fairway. These physics are the same for all swing mechanics. And this amount of spin applied for these shots make it way wasier to scramble than in real life. For me that is a fact and it takes away from the immersion of playing golf.

 

I don't necessarily want the scores to get up. Or making it "no fun" to play. But not shortsiding yourself, or avoiding missing it on the wrong side are important tactical elements of the game of golf. In JNPG that doesn't really matter that much. So, with the right physics - less spin, more roll - around the greens the scores probably would go up a bit. Looking at the leaderboards the last weeks, that wouldn't be a bad thing. And it wouldn't be artificial or "tricking" the game up. It would be for realism.

 

@Crow

 

Bunker play: It's all about the tempo. Quite often you have an uphill lie around the greens. That helps and still i loft up almost every shot. Makes for a higher ball trajectory. This way it is easier to calculate the length of the shot (because the roll of the ball after it hits the ground is much shorter).

 

Tempo: You will face quite varying distances around the greens. Sometimes you have 30 feet, sometimes 70. That means that you almost always have to play a partial shot. Try to practice full splash shots out of the greenside bunker first. Get a feel for the tempo. If you have that down, you reduce the length by 10 feet. Practice again. You will see, that with the same tempo your balls will go left - because of the shorter backswing. Two possibilities: Take the club back a little bit slower and maintain the tempo of the downswing; or swing with your normal tempo aim more to the right.

Repeat this drill for bunker shots of 80, 70, 60, 50, 40 to 30 feet. Over the time you get a feel how far your backswing has to be and where to aim at. Beware though: If the ratio gets too low (under 0.20), the ball comes out really low and not that soft. Then you will have a lot of roll on the ball.

 

Flop shots are played in a very similar way to bunker shots. Because of the even higher trajectory it is even easier to calculate the shot length. But you have to be precise with the ratio. If your downswing is too fast, the ball moves of course left but on top of that considerably longer. If you are too slow, the ball can come up way short. If you hit it in a range between 0.24 and 0.26 ratio the flop shot can be a (too) deadly weapon to get up and down.

 

Not happening with RTS-C. You see, we are seeing different things with different swings. That is why any changes can have dramatic consequences.

[Tigers Agent]

wow! this is a great thread on golf physics.  I've never played less than a 13 stimp. I've never played less than TP.  sim golf? If I want to play target golf, I'd lower my standards.  I know if I used a controlller or tried mouse swing.. (both of which can be manipulated) I feel as if I would be denying myself of simulation golf.  I'd bet with controller or ms, you can close your eyes and swing away. (on drives or ap shots) try closing your eyes on a 3 clk meter and tell me honestly what's harder. I'd like a meter with varied speeds based on roughs and sand. penalized for my mistakes. my scrambling is about 45%.

[Greensboronclion]

LOL!  Calm down dude... I have, in no way, mastered the game.  I'm not leading tournaments every single week.  And I've played with every swing currently in the game.  I love them all except for 3C.  I play with RTSC because it provides me with the best of both worlds (comfort and challenging but fun gameplay).

 

I don't necessarily push for things to become more difficult just because I find them too easy.  I push for them to become more difficult to make it more realistic and in-line with real world stats (which I KNOW just irritates the snot out of some people but that's not my concern).

 

But either way - you can't tell me that Bandon Trails is as difficult as Merion.  You can't even tell me than Bandon Trails is as difficult as Illinois.  It's an easier track plain and simple and that will always result in lower scores and higher FIR%.  Bandon Trails is a beautiful and fun course to play but as it relates to difficulty it's on par with Golden Meadows and maybe even a hair easier.

 

 

Yes Merion is a beast and ok I will agree with you that Bandon Trails is nowhere near as tough.  What is really bothering me is that this game plays really well and for some here that is not enough as there is always something to complain about and tell me one video golf game that has played as well as this game and I myself have never seen it.  We started this a year and half ago and had a real long early access and a handful of courses and right now we have around 70 and pretty tough to find a real dud in that 70 and a tour to play events and we still have complaints.  Don't get me wrong I get it but its really getting old as we paid 20 bucks for this thing and that is basically free in this day and age and its still not enough.  Even if we had it all right now and this game played like a total dream some would still not be happy and there would be a few who were just flat out better than the rest of us.  I still think and wish they would create a tour where all players would be required to play with a different swing each round of the event so all could see what the other people go thru but that is just wishing.  The good news is for most of us is there is only one way to go and that is up.

[DivotMaker]

It's the course. Bandon Trails has very wide fairways, is pretty short and the pins weren't that hard to get too. Quite a few pretty straight putts as well.

Merion was way more difficult to play.

 

Ditto.

[zmax - sim]

 I still think and wish they would create a tour where all players would be required to play with a different swing each round of the event so all could see what the other people go thru but that is just wishing.  The good news is for most of us is there is only one way to go and that is up.

 

How many would actually be able and willing to play in this event?

[mebby]

wow! this is a great thread on golf physics.  I've never played less than a 13 stimp. I've never played less than TP.  sim golf? If I want to play target golf, I'd lower my standards.  I know if I used a controlller or tried mouse swing.. (both of which can be manipulated) I feel as if I would be denying myself of simulation golf.  I'd bet with controller or ms, you can close your eyes and swing away. (on drives or ap shots) try closing your eyes on a 3 clk meter and tell me honestly what's harder. I'd like a meter with varied speeds based on roughs and sand. penalized for my mistakes. my scrambling is about 45%.

Nothing is stopping you from trying RTSC, MS, or RTSM.  And of course you could close your eyes and swing with RTSC, MS, and RTSM because those swings are all about feel and movement.  3C is about reflexes.  Just because you can't close your eyes and use 3C doesn't somehow make it more sim-oriented right?  

[mebby]

Yes Merion is a beast and ok I will agree with you that Bandon Trails is nowhere near as tough.  What is really bothering me is that this game plays really well and for some here that is not enough as there is always something to complain about and tell me one video golf game that has played as well as this game and I myself have never seen it.  We started this a year and half ago and had a real long early access and a handful of courses and right now we have around 70 and pretty tough to find a real dud in that 70 and a tour to play events and we still have complaints.  Don't get me wrong I get it but its really getting old as we paid 20 bucks for this thing and that is basically free in this day and age and its still not enough.  Even if we had it all right now and this game played like a total dream some would still not be happy and there would be a few who were just flat out better than the rest of us.  I still think and wish they would create a tour where all players would be required to play with a different swing each round of the event so all could see what the other people go thru but that is just wishing.  The good news is for most of us is there is only one way to go and that is up.

This game IS the best golf game I've ever played.  I've never once said that it wasn't.  Just because it's the best ever I guess we should just toss in the towel and say we're done?  It should constantly evolve and it is constantly evolving.

[mebby]

How many would actually be able and willing to play in this event?

I would do it today if it were available but I'm guessing I'm in the minority.  I do not like to play 3C at all but I'd do it because I think this is a very interesting concept.  But let's face it, most wouldn't do it because the second they get into a round with something other than their normal way of playing (say a RTSC guy playing 3C) and they have a horrible stretch of holes they'd quit.  Not all, but most.

[Greensboronclion]

How many would actually be able and willing to play in this event?

 

Z....I have no idea but to play that way would take a real gamer someone who is willing to work at all the swings and the challenge to win there would be immense.  I know one guy that would love to try it.

[Greensboronclion]

Think of it like real golf where you have the Tee game, Long Iron Game, Short Game and Putting.  You have to be good at all to be the best player and playing all swings would be the same as you would have to be Proficent at all four swings to be at the top.  Call it the Ultimate Tour.

[Buck]

How many would actually be able and willing to play in this event?

Not me - Literally less than zero interest in playing tournaments where you have to use every single swing method.

I just don't see the point.