316 replies to this topic

[Crow357]

Bottom line is that you shouldn't need to change from your preferred method of play because it's broken. It should be fixed. Then you can decide which one you prefer.

Ok. How do you fix it? Faster meter? More snap penalty? What?

[highfade]

I agree and disagree at the same time.

 

3C is going to be inherently limited in how realistic it can get.  It's a two dimensional swing and golf is certainly not a two dimensional game.  With the other swing methods more variables are introduced which will open up the capabilities of what the gameplay engine can deliver.

 

Note that this is different from saying which swing type is more fun or more enjoyable.  That's up to the user.  When we start talking about realism though, 3C is simply a very limited experience.

 

Mebby,

 

I totally agree that 3-C is more limited. I love the way you can shape the ball with MS starting left and cutting back etc.

 

But the point is 3-C has been neglected and why do we have to put up with the worst 3-C system of all golf games ever.  We never really delved into the possibilities of a modern 3-Click swing.  Believe me, I have a very long list of tweaks that one can implement to get the balance more realistic. I've been nagging for months but it seems to be set in stone now. 

[SirGrassCutter]

i have to second highfade. Me being a RTS-M player i find the long game on Tour Pro almost perfectly balanced in difficulty - at least if we could go back to off/off assists. My statistical numbers for GIR and FIR are pretty much in line with what we see at the PGA Tour.

 

And still the scores begin to get too low on the most difficult level. Going from off/off to off/min has of course something to do with that but the main reason for the low scores is the short game:

 

- scrambling: it's way too easy to hold the ball out of the rough around the greens. Pitch, chip, flop: the ball takes too much spin and the ratio of ball flight and roll therefore is really unrealistic. This is true if you are using the 64 degree wedge. I remember Mike stating that this club is somewhat "broken". This was months ago. Maybe it would be worth to look into it. On top of that we should have way more spin penalty out of the rough.

 

- putting: Grids and BLI are simply too precise. There is no guesswork when putting. You can see every subtle break. Of course there are more putts falling then in real life. Perfect would be, if the devs could come up with an alternative way of reading putts (colour based or contour based in a seperate putting view ... aiming and shot would have to be done after exiting the putting view).

 

JNPG doesn't feel unrealistic from tee to green to me - as a RTS-M player. But the easyness of scrambling and putting takes the strategic element of golf out of the game. You can attack every pin out there ...  because you can get up and down from almost every place of the golf course with an equal chance. No need to aim away from tugged pins.

 

The thing is: I think these issues aren't that hard to correct. Ball physics out of the rough could be tested with a higher spin penalty until we have a sweet spot. And the putting: Quite a few guys are playing rounds without the grid or the BLI right now. Interestingly the putting stats are way closer to reality as when using the aids. 

 

Yawn

[Greensboronclion]

It's the course. Bandon Trails has very wide fairways, is pretty short and the pins weren't that hard to get too. Quite a few pretty straight putts as well.

Merion was way more difficult to play.

 

 

Your joking Right?  That's the excuse?  Bandon Trails is not as easy as you think but it was this week.

[frank70]

Your joking Right? That's the excuse? Bandon Trails is not as easy as you think but it was this week.

No joke of course. Almost all scores were 20+ shots lower than the same guys shot at Merion. Course and conditions. 2 rounds in Bandon were with 8 and 10 stimp.

@Golden Bear: you are welcome!

[stopits here]

The only problem i have with all this, is you are all right, and that cant be right can it?, and what about if you pay for a game learn to play it and then it all changes?, this game can't be all that bad and all that good at the same time, if it changes too much from what it is now, as in gets any harder wont that be unfair to the people that have learned to play it as it is?.

[highfade]

Ok. How do you fix it? Faster meter? More snap penalty? What?

 

All I'm asking is that we open it up for discussion in the beta testing forum and work from there.

[Greensboronclion]

No joke of course. Almost all scores were 20+ shots lower than the same guys shot at Merion. Course and conditions. 2 rounds in Bandon were with 8 and 10 stimp.

@Golden Bear: you are welcome!

 

Frank you missed what I was trying to convey in my message with all the stats of the three events and that is that it is not broken as the PGA and EU events were just fine with scoring and when it switches to TP it will be even higher scores.  This game is not easy for the majority of players as most are struggling and there are a few of you who are just scoring at a level that most will not achieve so do we make it harder to please 10% of the people or cater to the other 90% of us who are totally satisfied with the way it is playing.  Maybe what we need is that the few who have just mastered this game to play in an Elite League where everything is off and the rest of us will stay where we are and enjoy the game.  Its just getting old that its the same crap about the game is too easy all the time.

[SirGrassCutter]

The only problem i have with all this, is you are all right, and that cant be right can it?, and what about if you pay for a game learn to play it and then it all changes?, this game can't be all that bad and all that good at the same time, if it changes too much from what it is now, as in gets any harder wont that be unfair to the people that have learned to play it as it is?.

 

Some players care not about others.  These elitists want the game exactly to their specifications and damn the rest of us.  It is a selfishness I have rarely seen thankfully.

[SirGrassCutter]

Frank you missed what I was trying to convey in my message with all the stats of the three events and that is that it is not broken as the PGA and EU events were just fine with scoring and when it switches to TP it will be even higher scores.  This game is not easy for the majority of players as most are struggling and there are a few of you who are just scoring at a level that most will not achieve so do we make it harder to please 10% of the people or cater to the other 90% of us who are totally satisfied with the way it is playing.  Maybe what we need is that the few who have just mastered this game to play in an Elite League where everything is off and the rest of us will stay where we are and enjoy the game.  Its just getting old that its the same crap about the game is too easy all the time.

 

So far the game is still catering to the 10%.  Meanwhile with all the unnecessary tweaking of the difficulty levels many other bugs are left unanswered.

[DoGgs]

I really don't think you can mess with the flop, pitch or chip...If you are new to PG these shots will initially challenge you, but after a while you GET them and they become quite easy to pull off.  If you start adding little gimmicks or extras to these shots in order to execute them accurately then people will just re learn them to good effect and we will be back to where we are now.  We just have to accept that the variables and even demons of real life golf will never be replicated in gaming form, i do agree though that 3C with its ability to hone down to the inch highlights the flaws in these shot types, controller is more knowledgeable guess work.

[frank70]

Frank you missed what I was trying to convey in my message with all the stats of the three events and that is that it is not broken as the PGA and EU events were just fine with scoring and when it switches to TP it will be even higher scores. This game is not easy for the majority of players as most are struggling and there are a few of you who are just scoring at a level that most will not achieve so do we make it harder to please 10% of the people or cater to the other 90% of us who are totally satisfied with the way it is playing. Maybe what we need is that the few who have just mastered this game to play in an Elite League where everything is off and the rest of us will stay where we are and enjoy the game. Its just getting old that its the same crap about the game is too easy all the time.

The short game is rather easy. Not only for a few. The long game is perfectly fine.

-50 shouldn't be possible on Tour Pro. 20 strokes of that come from scrambling and putting.

What i don't understand: we have 5 difficulty levels.Why is it such a big deal trying to make the hardest difficulty level playing as realistic as possible?

[highfade]

I consider myself  a 3-C expert, I've done research,  made sketches, calculations,  even had my own meter build to test the possibilities.  I'm asking for a 3-C taskforce to sort it out.

[Greensboronclion]

The short game is rather easy. Not only for a few. The long game is perfectly fine.

-50 shouldn't be possible on Tour Pro. 20 strokes of that come from scrambling and putting.

What i don't understand: we have 5 difficulty levels.Why is it such a big deal trying to make the hardest difficulty level playing as realistic as possible?

 

 

Frank you have it already its called the NAP.  Any harder than that its called go play real golf on a real golf course as this is just a game and always will be.

[frank70]

Frank you have it already its called the NAP. Any harder than that its called go play real golf on a real golf course as this is just a game and always will be.

We don't have a tour with NAP.

Again: it's not about scores. It's about realistic physics.

[frank70]

So far the game is still catering to the 10%. Meanwhile with all the unnecessary tweaking of the difficulty levels many other bugs are left unanswered.

The devs haven't touched the ball physics or the swing mechanics for months. What are you even talking about. The last patches concentrated on other parts of the game.

[Affo]

Imho, this game is the best out there for PC golf and a game it is. I play 3C as you all probably are aware and 3C only. Personally, I have no desire to try the others out, I have always been 3C, i enjoy the challenge at TP and some days the timing is right and scores tumble, some days not, so I cannot comment on other swing mechanics.

 

There will always be a limit to how real any swing type can get and with time, as with all games...people get better and learn the little things about each shot and scores will be low, very low on some of the easier courses.  Could/should the chip, pitch and flop be tweaked, are they too easy? Yes I think they are, but only because we've all learnt how to play them. I still get them horribly wrong sometimes as I don't sit with a calculator or charts, just my eyes. There may be some tweaks to make them more realistic, but again, this is a game trying to be a simulator...there are parameters.

 

The devs are still working on things and it will continue to improve as an all round game/experience and with OGT/PGLS offering more and more events to play, the more competitive amongst us have plenty to do.

 

Best £15 I have spent on a game by a long mile.

[JoeF]

So far the game is still catering to the 10%.  Meanwhile with all the unnecessary tweaking of the difficulty levels many other bugs are left unanswered.

 

Please list all the tweaking of the difficulty levels that have taken place in the last year.  Thanks.

[Buck]

Again: it's not about scores. It's about realistic physics.

I think the scores do matter as well. All shots will never perfectly match up to real life (modeling all the physics scenarios of our world is not simple), but if you can have good challenge tee to green and a short game challenge to match it that ultimately leads to scores reminiscent of the real game, I think we are on the right track.

Having an enforceable NAP mode with some refined cameras/options to match would help immensely. It's the only way I play and it's so incredibly satisfying/frustrating - Just as real putting is.

[mebby]

Mebby,

 

I totally agree that 3-C is more limited. I love the way you can shape the ball with MS starting left and cutting back etc.

 

But the point is 3-C has been neglected and why do we have to put up with the worst 3-C system of all golf games ever.  We never really delved into the possibilities of a modern 3-Click swing.  Believe me, I have a very long list of tweaks that one can implement to get the balance more realistic. I've been nagging for months but it seems to be set in stone now. 

Then that's a separate topic all together in my opinion.  I don't have an opinion on whether 3C has been neglected or not because I don't use it.  I believe you and I know others agree with you so I'm willing to assume that you are right.  But that's a separate topic that really can't be applied universally to the core gameplay.