71 replies to this topic

[✠ davef ✠]

Say what you like, but at least the mouse swing and using a 'little joystick on a controller' gives you real time feedback of your golf character's swing.

kind of funny no one has mentioned the upteen programs out there to set up the game pads for cheating

[Dazmaniac]

kind of funny no one has mentioned the upteen programs out there to set up the game pads for cheating

 

Indeed. Quite a number of years ago, I had a Saitek PC gamepad which had a switch built in to the controller so that the left analogue stick could be locked to either the horizontal or vertical axis, which for playing a golf game would make it nye on impossible to make a bad swing, lol.

[IanK]

kind of funny no one has mentioned the upteen programs out there to set up the game pads for cheating

I guess that most people who use the forum have no need for such a program. Excuse me for being naive but I didn't even know such programs existed until you mentioned it. I don't understand the mentality of people who pay good money for a challenging golf game and then decide to cheat. I don't have any time whatsoever for cheats.

[Mike Jones]

RE- controller cheat software - Even if people use this they will still have tempo to contend with though so even if they switch one axis off or edge there is no guarantee the ball with go where they want.

 

We're hoping that all modes of play with allow people to content on an equal footing with no one type of playing method having a distinct advantage over an other. We will see once the game is in early access what people think and we can then tweak it accordingly. 

[✠ davef ✠]

Indeed. Quite a number of years ago, I had a Saitek PC gamepad which had a switch built in to the controller so that the left analogue stick could be locked to either the horizontal or vertical axis, which for playing a golf game would make it nye on impossible to make a bad swing, lol.

yea thats one of the things that was going on in TWO,not with the type of gamepad you mentioned but tons of people where using the gamepad settings and using a well known program to off the axis on the swing and every ball would go straight. was not hard to figure out who was using it while playing multiplayer,as you would never see any fade or draw out of the cheaters only straight shots

[IanK]

yea thats one of the things that was going on in TWO,not with the type of gamepad you mentioned but tons of people where using the gamepad settings and using a well known program to off the axis on the swing and every ball would go straight. was not hard to figure out who was using it while playing multiplayer,as you would never see any fade or draw out of the cheaters only straight shots

It's all very well hitting dead straight shots all of the time, but what about varying wind conditions, sloping lies, having to play a draw or fade to negotiate around trees, for example. All of those things make playing computer golf enjoyable. Cheats are missing out on the fun that comes from having a challenge.

[✠ davef ✠]

It's all very well hitting dead straight shots all of the time, but what about varying wind conditions, sloping lies, having to play a draw or fade to negotiate around trees, for example. All of those things make playing computer golf enjoyable. Cheats are missing out on the fun that comes from having a challenge.

i got to agree with you,i have been playing TGC and played a bit of multiplayer and to me it looks like HB has figured out a counter to these programs

as i don't see it happening there. forgot to say i have been playing computer golf since 94. for years i would only play mouse swing games (truswing) while playing TWO i decided to try the 3c and i got hooked on it so for sure i will be getting this game as soon as i can and then will decide which control method i will use after i get a chance to try them all out.

[bortimus]

What about when there is a sidehill lie have the swing meter rotate so that it follows the lie of the slope. So for a right hander, if the ball is well above the feet the 100% power and shot-snap points are somewhere nearer 11 and 5 o'clock, or 1 and 7 o'clock if the ball is well below.

 

I really like this idea

[Dazmaniac]

I really like this idea

 

Chhers B.

 

A quick illustration of what I meant (using the Links 2003 swingmeter) of how the meter would appear when the ball was well above the feet of a right handed player (and please ignore the fact it has Driver selected, lol).

 

 

[bortimus]

Chhers B.

 

A quick illustration of what I meant (using the Links 2003 swingmeter) of how the meter would appear when the ball was well above the feet of a right handed player (and please ignore the fact it has Driver selected, lol).

 

 

Nice graphic.  Any visual input that makes the player feel as if they are on a slope/sidehill is a good addition to the game.  

[Davefevs]

This would rule out some of the need for a lie indicator. Any thoughts on uphill or downhill?

[IanD]

This takes me back to the suggestion MikeJ made, regarding the old Microprose Golf video he posted

[IanD]

This would rule out some of the need for a lie indicator. Any thoughts on uphill or downhill?

Dave, in the image above, the 100% power is the indicator of the uphill/downhill lie. Daz did elude to include it within his image post but I believe was referring to it originally.

 

He states the ball is above the feet, but by moving the 100% to the 11 o clock posiition, it should refer to a downhill lie. More distance, due to a downhill slope, means less power required. The snap position being to the right of the 6 o clock, means a left sloping ball where the feet are lower than the ball. I suspect various interpretations could be utilised here..

[IanD]

IF...

 

• The SNAP position is indicative of the sidehill slope
• The 100% mark is indicative of the uphill/downhill slope

 

Then what is indicative of the actual type of lie itself... ie fairway vs rough vs sand etc ?

(sheesh, approaching the 1000th post - got to make it a good one)

[Kablammo11]

Ian, congrats on your 1000 posts   

[Davefevs]

Thanks Ian....I didn't read everything thoroughly.

I really like this concept, and it would call for more 'touch' in the timing.

[Dazmaniac]

All I was trying to show was that as a clicker we were playing off a sidehill lie from a right hand players perspective.

 

There is no more / less power than the normal 12 / 6 o'clock meter as all that has happened is the snap points have moved to 11 / 5 o'clock, so if you hit the 11 / 5 o'clock marks, it would be equivalent of hitting 12 / 6 o'clock on the normal meter.

 

Likewise, if the ball was below feet, I was suggesting the snap points move to 1 / 7 o'clock, which again if both hit, give the same power as a 12 / 6 o'clock swing.

 

I hadn't given uphill / downhill lies any thought with this idea. By moving the snap points was just an idea to have a different swingmeter than what we have been used to in the past as playing shots with the ball above / below the feet are never as easy as from a flat lie. I was just trying to incorporate this in to the swingmeter in some way and took Bortimus's original concept and ran with it, so to speak.

 

The only problem with Ian's IF suggestion I can see is if we have a ball lie above the feet and on an uphill slope, the 100% mark will be at 11 o'clock and the snap point at 7 o'clock. Below the feet and downhill would then be 1 o'clock and 5 o'clock snap points, so all of a sudden you have to varying swing meters, which  was trying to avoid.

 

With my idea I am trying to keep the same constant distance between the 2 snap marks as they would be on the normal swingmeter.

[IanD]

Ok.. 1000th post... (trying not to make it 1000 words lol)

 

Daz, I actually love this idea... however, I'm always looking at trying to improve upon it and if possible, get others to add to it too. Feedback is great and running with an idea often turns them into something more... so keep thinking...

 

I know we've spoken about variations in other threads regarding the meter and I'm all in favour of some form of tempo, but mainly in the putting area of the game. However, I do feel we could improve upon the basics of clicking. This is an area where we're only standing on the edge of what the game will throw at us. We could highlight many areas where during play, our feet will be above the ball, as well as below the ball. The standing position of the golfer vs the lie being played, is likely far from anything Mike/Andrew have discussed.

 

However, running with the idea of moving the 100% and Snap positions is a favourite of mine, from many posts in other discussions we've seen and had. If I step back and move to basics... the swing meter is the simplest form of displaying an action to simulate the power and direction of how the golfer hits the ball. We don't need to see it necessarily round, elliptical, bar form or any other shape - it's been done in several ways in several games. We currently have a round meter which requires a level of input at various points to set the power and direction. For want of an example of what I'm trying to state... ;

 

•  Remove the Swing Meter

Now... your first click begins your backswing and two seconds later it will reach your 100% swing, forcing you to click again. Two seconds after that, your downswing connects with the ball and you are required to make your third click. Imagine trying that without looking at the meter....

 

That would refer to a tempo... however, why state two seconds...? You may be taller than me, therefore your backswing may be longer, for example 2.5 or 3 seconds. The downswing is often quicker too, so why keep the same time between clicks? We do it because of the visual representation we have regarding the meter. I'd like to see changes that reflect variations in how we want to play the game, not necessarily the way we have to play the game.

 

Another example... I'm standing above the ball. The ball is approx 1ft below my feet, due to a path being where I want to stand. The ball is on a flat lie, nor left or right leaning, nor an uphill or downhill lie. This shot should be different than anyone who's feet are level with the ball. It's a little more difficult... so how can we reflect that in a 3 click swing meter approach? What changes would the golfer actually make in this situation... bend his knees... use another club and opt for 85% power etc... either one of these is a change which could be considered 'tempo.'

 

So, back to the meter... if there is a meter which shows a maximum swing arc of 130%, then why can we not suggest several ways of utilising this?

 

1. Adjustable 100% marks. Being able to increase or decrease the 12 o clock area to something that suits our tempo of the meter. Of course it will either increase or reduce the amount of overswing area, but that could be factored into your swing, depending upon how much % of it was used. If it's a short area, because you decided to set your 100% at around the 1 o clock area, using any sort of overswing would seriously affect your power because there is little area left. However, it means those of us who decide to use 3/4 swings, would be penalised less for the same amount of overswing..
2. Having a meter that decides for us - in other words, exactly as you showed. The snap is either side, dependant upon the sidehill lie. The 100% mark would be moved dependant upon the uphill/downhill lie. You could also use the 100% limitation on the swing, as a form of reduction, if you're in lies that make it harder to hit from ie rough means you'd only be allowed to play 90% of the 100%. An even tricker art of displaying the meter is accomplishing this lol!

 That is but two ways of deviating from what we all know when clicking..  but it all comes back to what is suitable for a pc game, vs what can be achieved too. I only wish to emphasise that some may want a more purist way of playing, using the clicking method (I know... purists should use RTS or some other method... but stay open to options!). I just feel sometimes, standing on the tee when clicking, my swing speed should not be the same as anyone else's.... it's my swing...

[Dazmaniac]

 

•  Remove the Swing Meter

Now... your first click begins your backswing and two seconds later it will reach your 100% swing, forcing you to click again. Two seconds after that, your downswing connects with the ball and you are required to make your third click. Imagine trying that without looking at the meter....

 

IIRC, Everybody's Golf: World Tour on PS3 gave a click swing option loosely along these lines, where there wasn't actually a meter on show, but you used the point at where the club was in the backswing and downswing. I don't think it is exactly how we are picturing our ideal click swing model, but does show what can be done, so hopefully PP can take this on board. I'm for seeing any additional input for updates for how s wing click could be implemented and even doing away with the meter all together.

 

 

[Mike Jones]

I think our ultimate goal is to tie in the live avatar motion with the control method. We have thrown around lots of different options and motion capture while great in some respects is limiting in others. PGA tour golf from sierra sports had for me the best implementation of motion swing as the player model actually changed his swing technique based on how you moved the mouse. I haven't seen this in any other golf game to this point as it's very hard to implement well but certainly adds an extra dimension to the real time swings.