197 replies to this topic

[gravedodger]

Ian, on 09 Dec 2016 - 7:41 PM, said:

Joe, I can assure you, I've always been cautious when it comes to putting on 14 stimp, I wish I could say the same for my Alt Shot partners!

Hi Ian, I'm just guessing here but maybe it's something to do with the new green and fairway firmness options being added ?

[Armand]

In my two rounds of observation (!), I'd suggest the realistic greens tend not only to to affect the left-right of the putt, but also the speed a bit - especially uphill.  Downhill putts don't seem to be affected, in my estimation.

[Ian]

Armand, good call, I think you may well be correct.

[Sliceapottomus]

When testing at woodys on rts-m 12 stimp before update hit at full power went 75 feet, 14 stimp went 84' and thats because my full power is 81 %

 

after update 12 stimp goes 75 feet and 14 stimp goes 84 no change has happened in my observations .... hope this helps

 

have not noticed any change in stimp on softer greens.... also when testing the awfull new realistic"unrealistic" putting surface on normal greens at woodys did not notice any power loss or gain. But oh boy with only a 15 to to 20 percent make percentage there is no way i will be using realistic settings on a video game. simulator users may like this but as a real golfer in real life and a video game golfer when playing a video game I hate the fact that a putt hit on the correct line at the correct speed has a 20 percent or less chance of going in

[Dazmaniac]

Slice,

So you have never had a flat straight putt deviate off line in real life, even when hit on correct line and at the correct pace?

I know I have, on more than one occasion and I've played golf over 30 years.

At least the game allows you to guarantee holing them all though. Just play on Perfect greens.

[Mike Jones]

Sliceapottomus, on 10 Dec 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

When testing at woodys on rts-m 12 stimp before update hit at full power went 75 feet, 14 stimp went 84' and thats because my full power is 81 %

 

after update 12 stimp goes 75 feet and 14 stimp goes 84 no change has happened in my observations .... hope this helps

 

have not noticed any change in stimp on softer greens.... also when testing the awfull new realistic"unrealistic" putting surface on normal greens at woodys did not notice any power loss or gain. But oh boy with only a 15 to to 20 percent make percentage there is no way i will be using realistic settings on a video game. simulator users may like this but as a real golfer in real life and a video game golfer when playing a video game I hate the fact that a putt hit on the correct line at the correct speed has a 20 percent or less chance of going in

 

The best putters on the PGA tour are arguably Jason Day and Jordan Spieth. According to PGA tour stats on putts from 20 to 25 feet taken over the course on an entire season where BTW they play the best surfaced greens on the planet, their make average may surprise you at just over 20%. Rory Mcilroy who won the Fed ex cup and money list on the PGA tour makes just over 7% of putts from that length!

 

You have an understandable perspective as a video game golfer - you want a 100% reward for a 100% perfect putt but there is really nothing realistic at all about perfect greens and in our continuing quest for realism we feel that this is a step in the right direction for those who choose to 'opt in' to a more realistic experience.

[Acrilix]

Mike Jones, on 10 Dec 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

The best putters on the PGA tour are arguably Jason Day and Jordan Spieth. According to PGA tour stats on putts from 20 to 25 feet taken over the course on an entire season where BTW they play the best surfaced greens on the planet, their make average may surprise you at just over 20%. Rory Mcilroy who won the Fed ex cup and money list on the PGA tour makes just over 7% of putts from that length!

 

You have an understandable perspective as a video game golfer - you want a 100% reward for a 100% perfect putt but there is really nothing realistic at all about perfect greens and in our continuing quest for realism we feel that this is a step in the right direction for those who choose to 'opt in' to a more realistic experience.

 

Mike, I think it's great to use real life stats to demonstrate game decisions, but these pro's are making these percentages on greens that are far from flat, so their lack of accuracy is understandable. I'm sure that the OP was talking about a perfectly flat surface. 'Realistic' settings may give us realistic stats... time will tell, especially once stats are in the game, but they won't necessarily be achieved in a realistic way!

[Mike Jones]

Acrilix, on 10 Dec 2016 - 12:25 PM, said:

Mike, I think it's great to use real life stats to demonstrate game decisions, but these pro's are making these percentages on greens that are far from flat, so their lack of accuracy is understandable. I'm sure that the OP was talking about a perfectly flat surface. 'Realistic' settings may give us realistic stats... time will tell, especially once stats are in the game, but they won't necessarily be achieved in a realistic way!

 

True regarding the slopes but then again these are THE best putters in the world so how many times do you think they would read the putt badly enough to make a putt miss from 15-25 feet? The make % from 15 ro 20 feet for Spieth is 26% so it's hardly better. Might be in interesting test on Woody's to hit 100 putts from 20 feet on beginner mode with 0 path deviation or less than 1% snap miss to see exactly what % is holed.

[Mike Jones]

I just hit 20 putts from 17 feet. Motion swing path 0, speed enough to go 2 feet past if it missed, Stimp, 12 realistic greens.

 

Holed 7 out 20 so make % on that small sample was 35% which is nearly 10% better than Spieths 2016 average from that distance. Obviously the larger the sample size the better it would be but I think it shows we're not that far off on the realistic settings.

[Acrilix]

Mike Jones, on 10 Dec 2016 - 1:11 PM, said:

I just hit 20 putts from 17 feet. Motion swing path 0, speed enough to go 2 feet past if it missed, Stimp, 12 realistic greens.

 

Holed 7 out 20 so make % on that small sample was 35% which is nearly 10% better than Spieths 2016 average from that distance. Obviously the larger the sample size the better it would be but I think it shows we're not that far off on the realistic settings.

 

That's fine, but if the green was dead flat and the putter blade was dead square it shouldn't matter who the golfer taking the shot is. You seem to be arguing now that the bumps in the realistic setting are to simulate the golfer's ability to make putts rather than the imperfections in the greens. Golfers are not bringing the putter through perfectly every time, that is why they all have different stats, Jordon Spieth included.

[Mike Jones]

Acrilix, on 10 Dec 2016 - 1:21 PM, said:

That's fine, but if the green was dead flat and the putter blade was dead square it shouldn't matter who the golfer taking the shot is. You seem to be arguing now that the bumps in the realistic setting are to simulate the golfer's ability to make putts rather than the imperfections in the greens. Golfers are not bringing the putter through perfectly every time, that is why they all have different stats, Jordon Spieth included.

 

We have to use the best putters in the world for any statistical analysis as invariably they return the putter online and read greens better than anyone else. While not definitive by any means it does help support the fact that contrary to what has been posted by some, realistic greens are indeed more realistic than perfect greens.

[frank70]

Mike Jones, on 10 Dec 2016 - 1:31 PM, said:

We have to use the best putters in the world for any statistical analysis as invariably they return the putter online and read greens better than anyone else. While not definitive by any means it does help support the fact that contrary to what has been posted by some, realistic greens are indeed more realistic than perfect greens.

I just tried it out at Woodies under realistic settings. I generally think the approach is the right one. But i think that it is a lttle, little bit overpronounced.

And i understood it like Acrilix that the imperfect greens are meant to bring putting stats more to realistic numbers. That wouldn't be the right approach imho.

Pros miss putts because they don't putt in a perfectly straight line everytime, the putt sometimes misses because greens doesn't always run perfectly true and they miss putts because ...... they misread the breaks a bit. This last element is still lacking in the game. And after my first turn at Woodies the imperfection might be a tad overpronounced.

[Dazmaniac]

Reading a putt is all down to the player and how they interpret the information they are being given, whether they use the grid, BLI or no putting aids. If they miss they have either hit too hard and not allowed enough break - a misread.

The BLI doesn't suddenly light up when you have picked the right line. You evaluate the info it gives you, set your aim and then apply what you feel is the right amount of power.

I've read where people are saying grid and BLI are giving a 100% guaranteed read of a putt. How?

[frank70]

Dazmaniac, on 10 Dec 2016 - 2:30 PM, said:

Reading a putt is all down to the player and how they interpret the information they are being given, whether they use the grid, BLI or no putting aids. If they miss they have either hit too hard and not allowed enough break - a misread.

The BLI doesn't suddenly light up when you have picked the right line. You evaluate the info it gives you, set your aim and then apply what you feel is the right amount of power.

I've read where people are saying grid and BLI are giving a 100% guaranteed read of a putt. How?

In theorie every information is there. You can see every tiny little break. You had it right: Of course you can misinterpret what you see. But you are seeing all.

In real life it's almost impossible to see every minimal break. That's the reason why even pros misread a putt. Sometimes the putt goes slightly left or right and the player read it as straight. Won't happen in the game. You perfectly can see that the putt moves a tiny bit. Not always possible in real life. How often have you seen a player on TV who was puzzled about the roll of a putt. Quite often.

[Dazmaniac]

frank70, on 10 Dec 2016 - 2:45 PM, said:

In theorie every information is there. You can see every tiny little break. You had it right: Of course you can misinterpret what you see. But you are seeing all.

In real life it's almost impossible to see every minimal break. That's the reason why even pros misread a putt. Sometimes the putt goes slightly left or right and the player read it as straight. Won't happen in the game. You perfectly can see that the putt moves a tiny bit. Not always possible in real life. How often have you seen a player on TV who was puzzled about the roll of a putt. Quite often.

 

Yes Frank, in real life it is. We are playing a game. Games come with assists that can be turned on or off. The grid and BLI are still no 100% guarantee of picking the right line. They are just there to aid the player if they so wish to us them. It's a game.

 

Were you as overly critical of all the other golf games you played in the past that came with grids, BLI, putt preview etc. or is it just JNPG? Remember JNPG is just a game, PP Devs are not dropping real life into our computer screen, although they are doing what they can to try and replicate it in some areas, but seemingly being shot at every time they try.

[in2minds]

Once again people are trying to make a PC GAME play like IRL, it's a complete none starter WHY because a PC GAME runs code, what PP have done is added randomness to a straight put that's just wrong, if we except this randomness with the greens as "THATS HOW IT WORKS IN REAL LIFE GOLF" ok let go to the next step lets make driving random after all no golfer hits the ball the same, lets have a random left/right from the tee why not if we want this randomness same with irons from fairway too lets all get random mishits just like real golf. 

[JoeBradley]

in2minds, on 10 Dec 2016 - 2:56 PM, said:

Once again people are trying to make a PC GAME play like IRL, it's a complete none starter WHY because a PC GAME runs code, what PP have done is added randomness to a straight put that's just wrong, if we except this randomness with the greens as "THATS HOW IT WORKS IN REAL LIFE GOLF" ok let go to the next step lets make driving random after all no golfer hits the ball the same, lets have a random left/right from the tee why not if we want this randomness same with irons from fairway too lets all get random mishits just like real golf. 

The difference is that a putt rolls across a green whereas a drive/approach flies through the air. We already have slight wind fluctuations. I suppose you could factor in hitting random flying bugs or a bird strike.

[Dazmaniac]

A well hit putt can still move off line in real life.

 

To hit wayward shots with woods and irons, you generally have to make a bad swing. You don't make a good swing, make contact with the ball with a square club face and from the middle of the club and then see the ball shoot off 45 degrees right. You have to have made some error in the swing to cause this. Make a bad swing with 3C, RTSM, RTSC or Mouse swing and you get penalised, depending on skill level and assists enabled.

 

With putting you can hole a putt with a bad stroke because of how the ball interacts with the surface of the green. You can miss a putt with a good stroke for the same reason. Realistic and Bumpy are ways for PP to try and replicate it in the game. It is an option.

 

If you don't like the randomness, stick to Perfect greens.

[ProFirefighter]

SirGrassCutter, on 09 Dec 2016 - 6:48 PM, said:

Bravo for you mate.  I have already had the ole 3 swings to get out of the bunker.  This update is a real hoot full of laughs with my friends.

 

Yup, but not just 3 swings to get out of bunkers. Add to that chipping is now deadened compared to what it was previously, and now requires much more power.

 

And the lip outs, oh the lip outs! Funny to see now the wide variances in people's rounds on OGT, and the toll its taking on even the better players.

[in2minds]

Dazmaniac, on 10 Dec 2016 - 3:05 PM, said:

A well hit putt can still move off line in real life.

 

To hit wayward shots with woods and irons, you generally have to make a bad swing. You don't make a good swing, make contact with the ball with a square club face and from the middle of the club and then see the ball shoot off 45 degrees right. You have to have made some error in the swing to cause this. Make a bad swing with 3C, RTSM, RTSC or Mouse swing and you get penalised, depending on skill level and assists enabled.

 

With putting you can hole a putt with a bad stroke because of how the ball interacts with the surface of the green. You can miss a putt with a good stroke for the same reason. Realistic and Bumpy are ways for PP to try and replicate it in the game. It is an option.

 

If you don't like the randomness, stick to Perfect greens.

I don't mind the randomness what it will do is make good putters miss more puts and bad putters make more puts, my point with the driver/irons MISHITS shots is in this game people hit more FIR/GIR than they do IRL, it's no good just compering one aspect of IRL when it suits you argument.