165 replies to this topic

[drb7]

you are on the right track dodger, i think the only answer is to have controller only comps, let them play amongst themselves

[frank70]

Controversial quick and easy solutions?

1.  Remove the option to use a game pad controller for RTS style swing, make it 3C only for controllers, RTS mode can only be used with a mouse.

or

2.  Make it that only the same control method can be used in tournaments and online games.

*Please take a deep breath, count to ten and calm down before replying*
 

Disclaimer : I'm only pointing out 2 possible solutions if game controllers are such a big compromise on the game, I don't use a game pad so have no idea how easy they make the game   
I've now locked myself in fallout shelter and have food and water for many days.
 

Financially that would be the death of the game - 3-click controller. That is such a backward thinking.

 

We have mouse only and controller only tours. Problem is, that only 20 are participating.

 

Therefore for me a "all-in-one-tour" is a must. OGT is a big reason, why people are playing JNPG in the first place. What does the game offer aside of online tourneys? Multiplayer is kind of dying and there is no single player career mode.

 

Straight shooting controllers are a big advantage. 3-click and MS has a big advantage because they see a meter. But: I don't care and want to compete against all for the sake of one competitive tournament per week. I would love to have a field of over 100 players on Tour Pro - not 20-30 as it stands right now. But the game has to grow to accomplish that. Console release is a must. And then 3-click controller competitions certainly cannot be an option. How many people want to play like that in the year 2017?

[frank70]

you are on the right track dodger, i think the only answer is to have controller only comps, let them play amongst themselves

If you drop the "big tour" with all devices ... OGT probably is going to die. The player base is simply too small.

[gravedodger]

You're probably right Frank but at the same time the tour may not succeed as hoped due to the inability to have a fair and level playing field.

As I've said before, I'll play anyone at any level and any swing method, when I do play multiplayer it's for some 1v1 fun and banter, I don't have a competitive killer instinct to win at all costs, I play purely for the enjoyment of the game, I love golf.

[sideshowbob]

Heres an idea. Stop posting on this thread about how people do/don't, should/shouldn't, can/can't play this game!

Go back to game.

Start playing game with whatever method you so desire.

Learn how to get better with your chosen method.

Enjoy game!

[gravedodger]

It's a forum Bob ... that's what forums are for   

 

[DivotMaker]

Tim, I'm not trying to pick nits here and I do agree with you that, of course, golf is more than just being able to hit it straight..

But you can't possibly deny that being able to more easily hit it straight is "an advantage".

To what degree is debatable but it certainly is at least some level of advantage.

This is precisely what is bothering me personally with my DS4 situation and drove me to order an XB1 controller. I want to play this game and its challenge levels, as intended by the game creators.
It honestly bothers me that PG devs won't come out and endorse a specific method of input that is official, optimize around that and let those of us that want the intended challenge to relish in it.

Not saying it is not an advantage at all. It IS. However, it is not the advantage that some make it out to be, IMO. You still have to get around the course and hitting straight in no way guarantees a good score. Is there an advantage? Yes. How big is debatable. I think it is being blown out of proportion. I guess it amazes me that anyone can hit straight consistently in TOUR PRO with ANY controller. I can guarantee you that hitting straight is a rarity with the Xbox One Elite controller. Maybe 1 in 15-20 shots are dead straight. Maybe that is why I am not as perplexed as some of you as I am not seeing it on my end.

 

Hope you find the Xbox One controller gives you the experience you are looking for Buck.

[Greensboronclion]

I am going to chime one last time on this and I hope people read this and think about it before posting as I am going to go over all the controllersame I have tried and advantages and disadvantages.

Speed Link. Controller will hit about 90% of your fairways and greens and pretty much will turn the game into a putting match for you. It will also get you the longest distance on your shots as it seems to have no penalty for over swing at all and is the classic grip and rip controller. The bad news is that it is not the best for putting as it is kind of stiff on the greens. You also have very little ability to shape the ball due to a lack of axis. I have shot as low as 62 in a practice round at TP.

Logitech F310. Very similar to Speed Link but not as forgiving tho on the over swing aND at times will want to hook badly in the over swing area. You can shape the ball a little better but in general a straight controller also. Have gone under par at TP.

Xbox360. Tough to hit straight and very tough to putt with and have never sniffed 80 at TP and can play Pro level at around 75. To fat and bulky a controller for me but I am a Playstation guy.

DS4. My current controller. It is slightly straighter than the Xbox360 but not much and at Pro level I average around 60% of greens and fairways and about 30 putts around and keep it around 75 and like the Xbox have never sniffed par at TP and have broke par twice at Pro. My average drive is about 270 with DS4 and Xbox and I don't dare over swing.

My advise to all is going try all the different ones before judging and personally the short game is what really makes you good or bad. Watch some Pro golf and you won't find a guy hitting 60% of greens or fairways as that is not good enough to play out there as they all hit it straight but it's the guys with the best short game who win. Take your mouse or controller out to the course and play and get better and then you will be happy and the heck what anybody else thinks. I am done ranting.

[frank70]

Not saying it is not an advantage at all. It IS. However, it is not the advantage that some make it out to be, IMO. You still have to get around the course and hitting straight in no way guarantees a good score. Is there an advantage? Yes. How big is debatable. I think it is being blown out of proportion. I guess it amazes me that anyone can hit straight consistently in TOUR PRO with ANY controller. I can guarantee you that hitting straight is a rarity with the Xbox One Elite controller. Maybe 1 in 15-20 shots are dead straight. Maybe that is why I am not as perplexed as some of you as I am not seeing it on my end.

Hope you find the Xbox One controller gives you the experience you are looking for Buck.

Divot, you know that i respect your opinion. In this certain aspect i disagree. If you hit 90% fairways it is a huuuuge advantage: shorter distance to the flag. Better distance control for the second shot. More FIR normally lead to more GIR, lead to more birdie chances and you don't have to scramble as much.

Managing yourself around the course is the same task for everyone. I can assure you that i rather want to do that from the fairway than from the deep stuff.

And a last thing: if you hit driver straight (likely because of a forgiving controller) the rest of your shots probably will go straighter because of this certain input device as well.

I don't have a solution neither. But the problem is valid. As a RTS-M-player i got the short stick in difficulty. 3-click got easier (long game). Long game for controller stayed the same. I lost around 10 strokes per tourney. It is what it is, but i thought that the balance in overall difficulty between 3-clickers and mouse players was almost perfect. The only real anomaly were the FIR and a little less GIR stats of the best RTS-C-players. Balance got worse. Only me and one other guy are still playing RTS-M on Tour Pro.

[Buck]

One other aspect to an input device being "straighter"..

 

Question here:

Does that not also lead to better/more pure contact on every shot and thus better spin control?

 

(I'm asking - Felt like that is part of the game modeling too perhaps?)

 

Very interested for my XB1s controller to arrive.  

I'm worried bluetooth is the problem, but to that I would have to say "screw it" as BT wireless is what works for my playing context now.

[FreeBolt]

I don't know anything about controllers, but I have played many people that use them. And from my point of view they seem at a disadvantage, not an advantage. Some may hit the ball straighter, but they suffer from poor distance control with approach shots and long putts. The overall short game seems harder for them, that's just my opinion.

[Buck]

I don't know anything about controllers, but I have played many people that use them. And from my point of view they seem at a disadvantage, not an advantage. Some may hit the ball straighter, but they suffer from poor distance control with approach shots and long putts. The overall short game seems harder for them, that's just my opinion.

Hmm.
Pretty opposite from the experience I think you'd get most of us controller users to describe.

Ultimately, all of these debates aside, I play controller because it's the most enjoyable and convenient for me in a living room context (where 100% of my playing is now)

[Greensboronclion]

[quote name="FreeBolt" post="124966" timestamp="1483201557"]I don't know anything about controllers, but I have played many people that use them. And from my point of view they seem at a disadvantage, not an advantage. Some may hit the ball straighter, but they suffer from poor distance control with approach shots and long putts. The overall short game seems harder for them, that's just my opinion.[/quote



As I stated above they are not the best for putting IMO and you are correct they are harder to gauge distance.

[DivotMaker]

Divot, you know that i respect your opinion. In this certain aspect i disagree. If you hit 90% fairways it is a huuuuge advantage: shorter distance to the flag. Better distance control for the second shot. More FIR normally lead to more GIR, lead to more birdie chances and you don't have to scramble as much.
Managing yourself around the course is the same task for everyone. I can assure you that i rather want to do that from the fairway than from the deep stuff.
And a last thing: if you hit driver straight (likely because of a forgiving controller) the rest of your shots probably will go straighter because of this certain input device as well.
I don't have a solution neither. But the problem is valid. As a RTS-M-player i got the short stick in difficulty. 3-click got easier (long game). Long game for controller stayed the same. I lost around 10 strokes per tourney. It is what it is, but i thought that the balance in overall difficulty between 3-clickers and mouse players was almost perfect. The only real anomaly were the FIR and a little less GIR stats of the best RTS-C-players. Balance got worse. Only me and one other guy are still playing RTS-M on Tour Pro.

Frank,

You seem to be of the opinion that the long game is easy with the controller. It is not. My scoring is dramatically higher since the update, as much or more so than yours. There are going to be advantages and disadvantages to each swing. You can't change that. There are limitations to leveling the difficulty between the swings as well as leveling that everyone agrees with. This is the inherent trap golf game developers are in by including 3 or more swing options. The task is impossible and you end up with discussions like this in EVER golf game community.

I don't have the answers either, but I am not going to let this "issue" detract from my enjoyment of the game. I respect yours and others opinions on this, but we all need to remember that this is a video game and there are limitations on how "realistic " you can make the game without introducing frustration instead of legitimate challenge to the game. I feel we are at that point now. Realize others feel differently.

[frank70]

Frank,

You seem to be of the opinion that the long game is easy with the controller. It is not. My scoring is dramatically higher since the update, as much or more so than yours. There are going to be advantages and disadvantages to each swing. You can't change that. There are limitations to leveling the difficulty between the swings as well as leveling that everyone agrees with. This is the inherent trap golf game developers are in by including 3 or more swing options. The task is impossible and you end up with discussions like this in EVER golf game community.

I don't have the answers either, but I am not going to let this "issue" detract from my enjoyment of the game. I respect yours and others opinions on this, but we all need to remember that this is a video game and there are limitations on how "realistic " you can make the game without introducing frustration instead of legitimate challenge to the game. I feel we are at that point now. Realize others feel differently.

I completely agree with this. It's kind of frustrating though. I think the balance was better before the last update.

 

A calibrating software for the huge amount of different controllers on the market would be the jackpot for every golf game developer. They play sooooo differently. If everybody would use your controller we wouldn't even talking about all that.

[DivotMaker]

I completely agree with this. It's kind of frustrating though. I think the balance was better before the last update.

 

A calibrating software for the huge amount of different controllers on the market would be the jackpot for every golf game developer. They play sooooo differently. If everybody would use your controller we wouldn't even talking about all that.

 

We can dream.....

But we would still be talking about the different swings and the "dog chasing his tail" difficulty leveling discussions.....

[JOHNDALY91]

If PP has the shot info, meaning snap accuracy and ball contact stats for each shot. They and OGT should publish this information real time  post shot and within round and event statistics, this will allow us to judge whose ball striking stats are beyond believable.

[bortimus]

In regards to equalizing swing types...

Probably an upopular opinion, but I hoped that RTS-M (or a future variant of it) would be developed even further to allow for even more shot making possibilities.  

I wouldn't care about making it equal with other swing types if something could be developed that would allow the player to create almost any shot manually.  

 

Two things in particular come to mind: 

-Trajectory control mechanic (how far past the hit point the mouse follows through.)  Stop the follow through shorter for lower shots, longer follow through for high trajectories.  No need for the shot shaper at all.  

-Acceleration component.  This would enable players to have more control over how much spin they are putting on shots , getting away from the current system of spin being tied to length of backswing.  Combinations of backswing lengths and acceleration would be almost limitless.  Imagine the shotmaking possibilities this would allow.

 

An interesting result of adding these components would be the uniqueness that each player would develop.  Different players would likely become comfortable with a certain follow-through and acceleration while staying on tempo as their "regular" swing, so their approach to the game and course management would be different from others.  Not everyone IRL can hit the ball high/low or with more/less spin with the same amount of comfort.   

 

There are so many other things I'd rather see developed in the game first, but in the future it would be interesting to see if JNPG could create a really in-depth shot control mechanic utilizing more of the inputs that are possible with a mouse.  

[footslogger]

Great suggestions, bortimus.  I wish you had started a new thread with them since they only marginally apply to this one.  As an RTS-M user myself, I really like the way your ideas demand a level of user input beyond merely adjusting the shot shaper or length of backswing.  Regarding the latter, I particularly dislike the way spin is currently handled.  If I have a shot of just over 90 yards into the green I am reluctant to use my 60 degree wedge (90 yards) at 100% power or with a bit of overswing because, depending on conditions, it will probably bite and spin right back; I tend to use the 56 degree wedge (105 yards) with a bit of power taken off.  It's workable but doesn't seem all that realistic.  I also like the implications of your suggestions for chips and other shots close to the green (including pitches!).  

[DivotMaker]

In regards to equalizing swing types...

Probably an upopular opinion, but I hoped that RTS-M (or a future variant of it) would be developed even further to allow for even more shot making possibilities.  

I wouldn't care about making it equal with other swing types if something could be developed that would allow the player to create almost any shot manually.  

 

Two things in particular come to mind: 

-Trajectory control mechanic (how far past the hit point the mouse follows through.)  Stop the follow through shorter for lower shots, longer follow through for high trajectories.  No need for the shot shaper at all.  

-Acceleration component.  This would enable players to have more control over how much spin they are putting on shots , getting away from the current system of spin being tied to length of backswing.  Combinations of backswing lengths and acceleration would be almost limitless.  Imagine the shotmaking possibilities this would allow.

 

An interesting result of adding these components would be the uniqueness that each player would develop.  Different players would likely become comfortable with a certain follow-through and acceleration while staying on tempo as their "regular" swing, so their approach to the game and course management would be different from others.  Not everyone IRL can hit the ball high/low or with more/less spin with the same amount of comfort.   

 

There are so many other things I'd rather see developed in the game first, but in the future it would be interesting to see if JNPG could create a really in-depth shot control mechanic utilizing more of the inputs that are possible with a mouse.  

 

Good, well thought out post Bortimus. I like your thinking on this and quite frankly I don't see why this could not be implemented into the controller swing as well. Like you, there is a list of items that need attention in this game, but in the near future, would not be a bad idea to give something like this a look....