906 replies to this topic

[zmax - sim]

This especially it seems like.

It was staggering to read some of the discussion on the forum around the matchplay mess.

 

It was reading like they really did have developers working on the game that simply had no idea about how it worked...and I guess couldn't be bothered to research it?  Really bizarre.

 

I remember that.  It's not rocket science, but if you had never played it, then research it.  Don't tell people that its your idea of match play...lol

[Buck]

lol 

 

Imagine if the EA Madden devs came out with their own version of American Football where "both teams can have their offense on the field at once" and we'll just sort of keep adding points as they come - not sure when the game will end - lots of collisions and ish going on all over....very exciting though!

[zmax - sim]

hahahaha.   That's about what happened with TGC 2 matchplay.....

[mebby]

Money and people that actually golf in real life

The shocking thing is that their lead developer (Shaun) is a single digit handicapper IRL.  In one single post he said that he played XX number of rounds per year and is a single handicapper and that they strived for the having the most realistic physics engine of any golf game... and they think they've achieved that.

 

Yet, you can take a sandwedge, deloft it and hit a beautiful high arching 200 yard shot as if you just nutted a good 4 iron right down the pipe.  And chips randomly check up like the landed on sticky paper.

How a real golfer could develop a golf game with issues like this and claim that they have the most realistic physics engine of any golf game is just baffling to me.

 

Now that's not to say that it's ALL bad.  To me, the game plays quite well but I have to enforce my own house rules (no use of loft, and shot feedback turned off) and I'll likely never get any real competitive play because 99% of that community use the dial-a-distance loft mechanism like it's a drug.

[zmax - sim]

So its a combination of not knowing golf and putting out garbage to make a buck.   They succeeded in capturing the mania due to the success of TGC1.  Well done HB.  

[Drgnslyr221]

What Dogs said. I liked the idea of their career mode, but after converting some of my courses and playing tournament it was clear without HNDCP it was no contest. It really is just a spreadsheet tourney and not a very good one either.

[luforobot]

We have something to worry about: If TGC2 has very good sales, it might be difficult for JNPG 2 to aquire a significantly bigger playerbase than we have now.

on forum about game sell TGC2 is not in a  good position. ( don't ask me which forum. i read it not so long ago, but i don't remember).

in my humble opinion TGC2 is a clear step back from TGC1. after playing a lot TGC1 and TGC2 i step back to JNPG. It's more realistic than TGc2, scores are more realistic, physics is true ( except for RTSc putting).

[frank70]

on forum about game sell TGC2 is not in a  good position. ( don't ask me which forum. i read it not so long ago, but i don't remember).

in my humble opinion TGC2 is a clear step back from TGC1. after playing a lot TGC1 and TGC2 i step back to JNPG. It's more realistic than TGc2, scores are more realistic, physics is true ( except for RTSc putting).

Yes, JNPG is a way better golf sim. If the graphics get better (as they look on the new screenshots) and the golfer animation is implemented well, there is no question, that PG2 will be the better golf game.

 

The question is, how PP can get a lot of gamers to buy it. Bells & whistles probably are needed and a really deep career mode could be an attraction to buy it. Nowadays making a good game is one thing - but you need marketing as well.

[JoeF]

TGC is a video game based around the game of golf.  PG is the game of golf in a video format.  TGC2 is putting lipstick on a pig.  PG2 is putting icing on the cake.

[JCat04]

I wouldn't call it a bug, lol - they just didn't want 3 click.  You can play with mouse - I'm just not sure yet if their mouse swing is broken or it just takes hours of acclimatization. I don't think I've finished a round on it yet - a real club would have kicked me out for continually walking off.

 

Here's a recent word on this from the former executive producer of The Golf Club, and the The Golf Club 2:

"Every golf game around at the time of TGC development lacked the nuances of the short game, and the mastering of the feel of the ball. As a golfer who lacks a long drive, I've loved that I can make myself more competitive by being better at the short game. So the main pillar of the game play was to bring that into a game for the first time."

 

"3-Click just doesn't give you that ability unfortunately, it's a twitch mechanic rather than fluid like a golf swing. There's no ability to be heavy handed in 3-click, just the ability to miss the point you need to hit. So that was the main reason."

 

 

Here's a link to the post in its entirety at Operation Sports, in whose forum JNPG has been discussed in a couple of threads:

 

https://forums.opera...8&postcount=442

[Buck]

@JC

Good post JC.
I agree with that take and their decision.

More modern swing methods simply have more dimensions to them and are objectively more engaging.

I have no opposition to offering 3C in 2018 and beyond, but I also totally understand that it introduces many developer challenges to offer and integrate it alongside the more modern methods, and possibly isn't worth the time and expense to do so.

[shimonko]

Yes, good post JCat and respect their decision.

I feel they've tried to be golf but missed, whereas 3-click is so abstracted from a real golf swing and a traditional mainstay of computer golf it can get away with it. Before simulator, I would use 3-click on JNPG purely because I had so little time to play and it gave me a believable golf experience - maybe 15-20 over on Tour Pro. Enjoyable. My scores would be similar to a real round of golf on such courses if I had put in the same effort. Experience in real golf, and even past golf games kept my scores from blowing out ridiculously.

With TGC, even with controller, I'm hitting a putt 1 foot, then 10 foot past, seeing a 20 yard lob wedge back up and just thinking "This ain't golf - did the same guys that did the Rugby game do this game?". Then I hit nearly every fairway. Making a game hard in order to give a path for improvement is fine, but it shouldn't be about learning to play a game the HB Studios way. It's not too far off answering a trivia question on the tee and seeing a shot based on the speed and correctness of answering.

This is why JNPG is attracting talented golfers on the simulator side - pros and other plus handicaps. It's a game they recognize.  Sure JNPG has a very small number of quirks that can occasionally bite us at a crucial time and leave us fuming (which is golf anyway), but overall the prior golf sim experience of Mike and Andrew, and Mike being a Pro golfer, does shine through.

[DoGgs]

I'm amazed they say they focused on the short game, it's absolutely terrible.  The flop is much worse than TGC 1,  the pitch has not changed, so easy to put it to within a few feet, and chipping! the least said about that aspect the better.  The game had so much promise in early access, adding mocap does very little for the game when everything else is poor.  I deleted the game after giving it two weeks to impress me...It failed miserably.

[Drgnslyr221]

Here's a recent word on this from the former executive producer of The Golf Club, and the The Golf Club 2:

 

Here's a link to the post in its entirety at Operation Sports, in whose forum JNPG has been discussed in a couple of threads:

 

https://forums.opera...8&postcount=442

Yeah, except TGC short game is terrible, with the exception of putting. What's the point of feel if you can hit a pitch shot to within feet from 60 yards and in and make chips spin back? It's a joke. 

[Crusher]

whereas 3-click is so abstracted from a real golf swing and a traditional mainstay of computer golf

 

I completely agree!  3Click is the best and oldest method of playing virtual golf on a PC. Truly a classic!  It allows people to play on their Laptops when they are on the go and doesn't require lots of "movement space" to play.  Like most people who play on a PC, I like to have my hands always right out front on the Mouse and Keyboard.

 

The best golf games ever created all had 3Click meters.

[ArcadeHack]

I completely agree! 3Click is the best and oldest method of playing virtual golf on a PC. Truly a classic! It allows people to play on their Laptops when they are on the go and doesn't require lots of "movement space" to play. Like most people who play on a PC, I like to have my hands always right out front on the Mouse and Keyboard.

The best golf games ever created all had 3Click meters.

Using a controller does not require lots of “movement space” I’d be willing to bet you would have a smaller footprint due to your hands being on the controller as opposed to having them spread out on your mouse and keyboard.

[JCat04]

Yeah, except TGC short game is terrible, with the exception of putting. What's the point of feel if you can hit a pitch shot to within feet from 60 yards and in and make chips spin back? It's a joke. 

 

 

TGC 2 would do itself a favor if it had at least one difficulty level where players couldn't loft pitches and flops to anywhere near the extent you currently can in the game.  When I'm playing for fun, I impose a "no lofting" house rule on myself for pitches and flops. The gameplay feels a lot more realistic and naturally challenging.  Of course one can't compete in a tournament with this in effect, but it's there for those who want to play a round off the competitive map.

 

I find that I can't make chips spin back though.  In my experience, chips seem to perform in a reasonably believable fashion about 85 to 90% of the time.  It's that 10 to 15%, where you get the random, inexplicable 'checking chip' result... it can come from the heavy rough just as easily as it can come from the fairway or fringe.  I've seen it occur when hitting from heavy rough to a downhill green slope.  It can be really infuriating when it happens and really, if it occured at at a 5 to 10% higher rate, would make it a game breaker for me.  It's easily the most annoying bug in the game, but they say it remains a bug because HBS can't reproduce it predictably in the studio

[JCat04]

Using a controller does not require lots of “movement space” I’d be willing to bet you would have a smaller footprint due to your hands being on the controller as opposed to having them spread out on your mouse and keyboard.

 

True ArcadeHack!  I don't have one square inch of movement space in my recliner, and I play JNPG just fine with a controller

[Buck]

...and I play JNPG just fine with a controller

Once you go controller, it's really hard to have any desire for anything else.
It is so comfortable and relaxing to lay back, chill & play with a controller...

[clubcaptain]

I tried it and had an overwhelming desire to go back to 3C.