906 replies to this topic

[DivotMaker]

So instead of fixing the current game, they are releasing TGC 3 which in turn will fix the MP issues and add a career mode that should have been in the current version.  So basically there is no profit in fixing the game as it is now, instead they move on another version of the game that they can charge full price for...Wow! thats shameful beyond belief.  Jcat, i really don't see anything epic here,  you are basically stuck with a broken game for 10 months until the next installment gets released, and god knows if they manage to get that one right....Money grabbing Bar stewards.

 

Might be helpful if you were more informed.

 

Maximum Games made ALL of the game content decisions from TGC1 Collectors Edition through to TGC2 until today.

 

Fixing TGC2 would be up to Maximum Games, not HB Studios. MG is the problem, not the solution. Maximum Games is gone now for TGC2019 and beyond.

 

TGC2 is far from "broken" and it will be 6 or 7 months to release with a Steam Early Access starting ion the near future.

[mebby]

It’s amazing how the massive letdown that was TGC2 has now been forgotten. And the cirlcle jerk for the updated version of TGC2 has begun. It’s astonishing how people just don’t learn anything sometimes.

I both agree and disagree with this statement.  Yes, it's funny to see the likes of John Eric and DDawg go from complete frustration all the way to elation based purely on a simple announcement.  As Buck said - the announcement is the easy part.  The implementation of those features is the real test and we won't see anything on that front for months to come - I'm guessing roughly 8ish months from now.

 

However - the one key component here is that they are now free from the handcuffs of Maximum Games and they've already been 1,000% more communicative today than they have for the past 12 months.  So I'm hopeful that they execute well on their promises and continue the solid communication with their community.  Like JC and Divot have both said - I see TGC2 as a stepping stone.  Yes, it was nearly a failed game (and is absolutely a failure in many people's eyes) but it DID pave the way for a much improve swing mechanic that they can build upon.

 

It's the most promising option the video game golf community has as the moment.  At least if you aren't a sim player.  

[DoGgs]

In a business sense i can totally see why they would bring out a new version late this year, but to announce it when there is so much wrong with the current game, how many patches has TGC 2 had since release? one pathetic patch that addressed nothing important.   So many of TGC players talk about multiplayer as the only thing broken ( read up )...really!  There is a thread at HB for the broken chipping alone. not to mention the way the ball behaves out of bunkers, false read putts and a short game that has not changed from TGC 1 when it was in dire need of change.  I still have the pm from AK before TGC 2 was announced, guy was full of crap, i knew it then and thats where my vote of no confidence came from that ADX always used to bring up, where his he now? realised i was right and buggered off thats where.

    Bottom line, the console is king for HB and TGC, they don't give a rats arse for the PC crowd.  If they patched the PC version they would be obliged to patch the consoles and thats too much work for them without any financial reward.  This business with real courses for 2019 using real lidar data, they could if they wanted make that available to the PC sector for design, but they won't because the consoles would kick off, and console culture is to blindly keep buying a slightly improved version of the previous years, just like all the sheep who followed tiger woods every year, we have the same here but with an inferior title.

[Buck]

..This business with real courses for 2019 using real lidar data...

 

I'm really interested to see what they can accomplish in this space.

I really really like playing real courses and I have to say, most of the RCR's I've seen in the TGC world never really look and feel like the course they are trying to replicate.  The theme packs are sort of a blessing and a curse in this regard.

 

Granted - I haven't seen any lately so I'm open to change my mind on that if anyone has one they think I should see some screens/video of?

[DivotMaker]

In a business sense i can totally see why they would bring out a new version late this year, but to announce it when there is so much wrong with the current game, how many patches has TGC 2 had since release? one pathetic patch that addressed nothing important.   So many of TGC players talk about multiplayer as the only thing broken ( read up )...really!  There is a thread at HB for the broken chipping alone. not to mention the way the ball behaves out of bunkers, false read putts and a short game that has not changed from TGC 1 when it was in dire need of change.  I still have the pm from AK before TGC 2 was announced, guy was full of crap, i knew it then and thats where my vote of no confidence came from that ADX always used to bring up, where his he now? realised i was right and buggered off thats where.

    Bottom line, the console is king for HB and TGC, they don't give a rats arse for the PC crowd.  If they patched the PC version they would be obliged to patch the consoles and thats too much work for them without any financial reward.  This business with real courses for 2019 using real lidar data, they could if they wanted make that available to the PC sector for design, but they won't because the consoles would kick off, and console culture is to blindly keep buying a slightly improved version of the previous years, just like all the sheep who followed tiger woods every year, we have the same here but with an inferior title.

 

There are so many things I disagree with in your post, I am not sure where to begin.

 

1) TGC2 had 3 patches.

 

2) Chipping is an anomaly they cannot seem to reproduce 100% of the time in the studio. Are you trying to say that there is no excuse for this? How many issues with JNPG haven't been fixed? Lets not go down that road, shall we?

 

3) They don't care about the PC crowd? Where do you come up with this crap?

 

4) Consoles MAKE MONEY. PC versions do not when it comes to Golf games. Got that? That being said, both consoles now are small form factor PC's with different OS's which still make them much easier to program for than in the past. Since the PC is the basis for the design of the game, your comments are simply misinformed.

 

5) Your comments about AK are unnecessary. He is gone. He had very little to do with the final decsions for TGC2 as the rest of HB did. Maximum Games made those decisions both on the game content and lack of content and how many patches the game got and did not get. Maximum Games are GONE. Now HB is getting back to their roots and I am betting they are better than ever without the handcuffs of Maximum Games.

[DoGgs]

I don't care what you think you know Divot  lol your point number 4 answers number 3.  console = money  PC = not worth the hassle

  Point number 2  jeez they really got you on board if you buy that crap, i installed TGC 2 back on my system last week and replicated it in my first round.

point 5  AK left them to apply the finishing touches to TGC 2 he was very much part of the process that led to the game you have now, he said so in a youtube comment thread.

you can disagree all you like, you always will anyway, i'm not your replacement for ADX so lets not go there.

 

One thing you can guarantee, you will not see any UK links courses being recreated as they seem to think that pot bunkers do not exist, and if TGC 2019 is just TGC 2 with lipstick you will not see them come release.  This may not be important to the american contingent here, but its damn important to me and links design in general.  Yeltzman does a fine job bringing links courses to TGC but he is wasting his time as pot bunkers are a big part of a links course difficulty.

[Buck]

I don't know guys - why argue about any of this?

 

Honestly - anyone defending where TGC 2 ended up as a product at this point in time I think isn't being particularly objective.

Please take no offense whoever you are - that's just my opinion.

 

For all the reasons we know and don't have to re-hash, it was a half baked cake with very little frosting and some key missing ingredients.

 

In reality people do make comparisons to other games since that's the competitive landscape, but I personally just evaluate an offering on its own merits and TGC 2 didn't fulfill even bare expectations for itself based upon the start it had with TGC 1 and that's all that matters to me when analyzing it.

[Buck]

That really you Anthony?

 

[DivotMaker]

I don't care what you think you know Divot  lol your point number 4 answers number 3.  console = money  PC = not worth the hassle

  Point number 2  jeez they really got you on board if you buy that crap, i installed TGC 2 back on my system last week and replicated it in my first round.

point 5  AK left them to apply the finishing touches to TGC 2 he was very much part of the process that led to the game you have now, he said so in a youtube comment thread.

you can disagree all you like, you always will anyway, i'm not your replacement for ADX so lets not go there.

 

One thing you can guarantee, you will not see any UK links courses being recreated as they seem to think that pot bunkers do not exist, and if TGC 2019 is just TGC 2 with lipstick you will not see them come release.  This may not be important to the american contingent here, but its damn important to me and links design in general.  Yeltzman does a fine job bringing links courses to TGC but he is wasting his time as pot bunkers are a big part of a links course difficulty.

 

Goes both ways. 

 

Please continue your misinformation campaign.

 

Take Care.

[DivotMaker]

I don't know guys - why argue about any of this?

 

Honestly - anyone defending where TGC 2 ended up as a product at this point in time I think isn't being particularly objective.

Please take no offense whoever you are - that's just my opinion.

 

For all the reasons we know and don't have to re-hash, it was a half baked cake with very little frosting and some key missing ingredients.

 

In reality people do make comparisons to other games since that's the competitive landscape, but I personally just evaluate an offering on its own merits and TGC 2 didn't fulfill even bare expectations for itself based upon the start it had with TGC 1 and that's all that matters to me when analyzing it.

 

Not really arguing per se Buck.

 

I saw some blatant misinformation and responded. The response I received in kind was predictable.

 

No skin off my nose. TGC2 did alot of things right. It also left alot to be desired in many areas.

 

That is inarguable, IMO.

[AnthonyKyne]

Hi guys, really enjoying all the opinions. Especially yours Dogs - hillarious!

Please enlighten me on the PM where I was full of $*#t, and I'll explain why I wasn't

Buck, Mebby - I can understand that you might not like some of the decisions I made but most of them were to create a long future for the game.

We went into a market completely dominated by EA - no one was competing with them. We created a huge list of features to make the ultimate golf game and then ordered them appropriately. We had to have a very unique selling point if we were going to compete with EA so That was the GNCD. That's a huge task and we had a set amount of time and people, so that means somethings have to give.

The game reviewed well and sold well. giving us the chance to make another one. A dream scenario for most indie developers. We also managed to knock PGA off its perch - something I couldn't have imagined happening.

The second game - at that point you have to keep your fanbase as well as get more in. It was massively important to get good reviews again. So when it came to ordering the features we had to do it in a way that we could get new people in while also keeping the old set happy. Again, I must have made the right decisions there because the game reviewed even better. 

People might disagree with me about 3-click and difficulty levels - but that was my only stipulations. We wanted a game that was about feel and nuance - 3 click, although I'm a fan, doesn't give you that. And I wanted to make a game that wasn't fake - no fake difficulty. An even playing field where handicaps mattered for the first time in a golf game. I hate fake difficulty and I hate being told by someone when I beat them  "well I was on a harder difficulty" 

TGC2019 looks great, I wish the guys all the best. As I do the guys on PP, because we stood up to giant and beat them

[Buck]

Buck, Mebby -

 

I can understand that you might not like some of the decisions I made but most of them were to create a long future for the game.

The game reviewed well and sold well.

 

The second game - 

Again, I must have made the right decisions there because the game reviewed even better. 

 

lol - Probably not your intention, but man does that read in a bit of self congratulatory fashion..

Don't hurt your arm patting your own back there.       (no offense - just a light hearted joke)

 

I guess I'm not sure how you defend where TGC2 ended up.  TGC 1 I'll give you, but there is so much wrong and broken and unfinished with TGC 2.

And the reviews of it - are these reviews today?  Like recent and up to date or initial reviews with excitement and hope for the future in mind?  (A future that never materialized)

[Buck]

Not really arguing per se Buck.

I saw some blatant misinformation and responded. The response I received in kind was predictable.

 

No skin off my nose. TGC2 did alot of things right. It also left alot to be desired in many areas.

That is inarguable, IMO.

 

For sure - I just don't miss the days of ADX & Dusty trolling and arguing on the other forum and hope to not have that happen in this thread either..

[DivotMaker]

For sure - I just don't miss the days of ADX & Dusty trolling and arguing on the other forum and hope to not have that happen in this thread either..

I agree.

 

It is amazing how much better the forum has been there since one of them was shown the door.

[AnthonyKyne]

lol - Probably not your intention, but man does that read in a bit of self congratulatory fashion..

Don't hurt your arm patting your own back there.       (no offense - just a light hearted joke)

 

I guess I'm not sure how you defend where TGC2 ended up.  TGC 1 I'll give you, but there is so much wrong and broken and unfinished with TGC 2.

And the reviews of it - are these reviews today?  Like recent and up to date or initial reviews with excitement and hope for the future in mind?  (A future that never materialized)

Definitely wasn't meant like that - but i'm massively proud of what we achieved and what that team is continuing to achieve with TGC2019. We worked months of 18 hour days to get those products to compete with multi-million dollar titles. It's why I love the PP guys as well, it's hard to make these games on the budget of indie studios. So sometimes you have to sacrifice the moon on the stick for just the stick if it gives you the ability to put the moon on later.

I'm talking about metacritic reviews - http://www.metacriti...the-golf-club-2

I think it was always going to be hard to follow up on the level of support TGC1 had though, because when you're working with publishers you have to work together. I don't know what happened post alpha on that project, but the game came out to 7,8,9 out of ten reviews. So it's given the guys another crack at improving again. As a golf game fan, I'm excited to see what they are doing, because they're all very passionate about the game and where they can take it, as well as being extremely sad I'm still not part of it

[Buck]

 As a golf game fan, I'm excited to see what they are doing, because they're all very passionate about the game and where they can take it, as well as being extremely sad I'm still not part of it

 

Can you please email someone over there and share with them what "match play" means in golf?

There appeared to be some confusion about that judging by some of the official responses on the forum a while back.

 

It's a personal bone to pick for me as I simply can't/won't play any golf game that doesn't have real time online match play (that works correctly) as it's literally all my uncle and I do every night.

[AnthonyKyne]

Haha, I think they should know. Myself, Paul, Shaun and another friend used to play it on Wednesdays on the local course

[DoGgs]

AK before i start has Divot got you on speed dial or something   

You Pm'd me way before TGC 2 release asking for thoughts about TGC 2,  and my major gripe about TGC 1 was the short game and how it needed to be totally revamped.  Pitching on a dime was too easy, the flop was a one trick pony etc.  Has any of that actually changed in TGC 2? no is the answer, you seemed to be all for it in the pm.  you did change the ease from the tee, and credit for doing that, i have said that TGC 2 is fine of the tee, always have.  You actually made chipping worse where i thought that was impossible,  HB has a thread devoted to that fact so i'm far from alone in that view.

I purchased TGC 2 for the career mode as PG has never implemented one, HB made a point of showcasing the fact yet we know how bad it turned out to be, its terrible and i defy anyone to defend it, surely you must know what would make a decent career mode, how could you justify having to play career on courses like gnoll down or littlebrook, c'mon seriously!  You made me part with money for a BS claim of an in depth career mode, am i annoyed...damn right.  Now its as case of TGC 2019 with enhanced/ improved career mode!  they are selling it just like they did with TGC 2,  why not get the career mode right for TGC 2?  no hang on, it will be what it should be in 2019 version, and that will be another 30 quid please...not impressed, and i won't get fooled again.

[Buck]

Haha, I think they should know. Myself, Paul, Shaun and another friend used to play it on Wednesdays on the local course

 

I hope they get it right!

There are many of us here worried we are going to be looking for a chair when the music stops if PG2 goes Trackman only...

[AnthonyKyne]

I do remember that conversation. Indeed.

We did improve the variation off the tee, as you state. But we also improved a dial a distance with the flop. We spent majority of the time making sure the variation off the tee was really good, that's what people wanted the most.

I'm sure next time, that time will be spent on stepping up the short game even further. It's a continual improvement each time.

Career mode wasn't what you wanted, but lots of people liked it. It sounds like the guys are making something more to your tastes next time. not everything can be a win for everyone. But over time you hope you can make something for everyone, It just takes time