212 replies to this topic

[Sliceapottomus]

jmk59, on 31 Dec 2017 - 10:13 PM, said:

Slice,

 

I went out to the practice range to try and reproduce your results.  I get mostly the same numbers that you do.  The answer isn't about the wind model, its more about PG's launch model.  One would expect more spin with the higher launch angle (angle-of-attack), and less carry.  PG keeps the spin rate the same for all launch angles, thus keeping the carry about the same for 8 deg to 14 deg launches.  No secret advantage to be gained by higher or lower launch angles, just a style preference and different landing conditions.

 

Also...be careful of comparing "real life" to a Sim that's based on PGA club head speeds (113 mph).  Your's is probably lower, so the launch conditions are different.

 

John

yes your right and thats my point. ...and fyi my swing speed 105 to 110 now that I am swinging easier did measure it once over 120.. at least that's what the  instructor told me. I hit a 8.5 degree driver 275 - 290 when I perform a responsible swing and not try to kill it but have hit the ocasional 300 plus as the  with the 260 yarder

[jmk59]

Good for you, Slice (on the club head speed).  I wish I could do the same.

 

The fact that the spin rate is constant for all of the launch angles is more of a "game" compromise.  The Trackman average data  (PGA-Driver) comes from ~200 players, all hitting different lofts, angle-of-attacks, spins, and balls.  The averages aren't the optimum combination (for distance), so a distance advantage could be exploited.  PG's implementation ensures a level playing field across all launch angles, while also giving the player a choice of high-ball or low-ball playing style.

[Mailman]

Buck, on 31 Dec 2017 - 4:54 PM, said:

What's the FOV in the current 1.4.3 as it is released?

 

45 in the current build I believe according to the (F8) console. The console (F8) setting g_fov = 36 will give you the view from the last build although the view reverts back to 45 as soon as you have hit a shot. Would be nice to have the ability to have setting in the graphics options in-game rather than any arbitrary number put forward by me, MJ, Buck, Crusher, JoeF etc then we can all be satisfied.  

[Buck]

Mailman, on 01 Jan 2018 - 4:53 PM, said:

45 in the current build I believe according to the (F8) console.  I'm pretty sure that the setting g_fov = 40 will give you the view from the last build although the view reverts back to 45 as soon as you have hit a shot.  Anything below a value of 38 looks just too close on my monitor.  Would be nice to have the ability to have setting in the graphics options in-game rather than any arbitrary number put forward by me, MJ, Buck, Crusher, JoeF etc then we can all be satisfied.  

 

Thanks man - I'll fire up the streaming box in the other room and the monitor there and play with the console for a couple minutes & check it out.

 

You are totally correct.  

 

There are so many ways a user might display the game and at so many sizes and different contexts & distances from the screen, that it would be a really good idea to build in some options to set the FOV to something of your preference in the settings.  Even if it's just choosing between a few preset options to cover a range, it would be really great from an accessibility standpoint.

[Sliceapottomus]

jmk59, on 01 Jan 2018 - 12:28 AM, said:

Good for you, Slice (on the club head speed).  I wish I could do the same.

 

The fact that the spin rate is constant for all of the launch angles is more of a "game" compromise.  The Trackman average data  (PGA-Driver) comes from ~200 players, all hitting different lofts, angle-of-attacks, spins, and balls.  The averages aren't the optimum combination (for distance), so a distance advantage could be exploited.  PG's implementation ensures a level playing field across all launch angles, while also giving the player a choice of high-ball or low-ball playing style.

why is every one missing the point.....??? spin is the key factor here. What good is a low ball playing style if the results aren't what is expected... This wind change has exploited the short comings of bounce and roll.....If you have Wind that it is affecting ball as in real life, then you have to give me the option to play it under the wind as you do in real life that means bounce and roll out too.... have you played against the wind with wedges and see how much the ball can back spin... bit rediculous.... ptches and flops are  affected way too much with side to side movement with cross winds...hell even affecting chips...If you want this at 40 mph fine so be it. but the 10 to 25 mph affect is way to juiced for this game in most aspects....

[Sup?]

Have to agree with Slice on the pitches and chips.  As a TP 3 clicker flops aren't even in my repertoire anymore so I have no clue as to how those are effected.

[Affo]

Also have to agree about chips and pitches, no way a wind moves a ball that much sideways that low to the ground. Not that I am a scientific expert in the field, but that seems so far off. 

 

Also, the crosswinds at windy, high gusty do remind me of the original Leaderboard in many ways how the ball reacts, lol.

 

I'll take it as it comes, all playing the same game.

[theclubpro]

They implemented the winning putt wind model it seems..

[jmk59]

I'm also seeing a lot of side movement on my chips and pitches - but I've been playing mostly links style courses.  I would expect this much movement due to no tree protection - the wind profile goes nearly all the way to the ground.

 

For a plot like Bethpage, with tall trees and narrow fairways, I wouldn't expect much movement from most of lower shots (pitches, chips, flops).  I'll go out to some parkland courses and test.

 

Maybe Andrew can pop in and explain how the tree-protection model was implemented.

[Dazmaniac]

The Dev's will do as they do, but I personally feel the wind for pitching, chipping, flopping and splash shots is a little over done. It's as if the ball has suddenly become lighter and is blown about accordingly. I may be wrong and told I'm talking BS, so if someone can provide the stats that shows the game is correct and those of us that are commenting on it are wrong, I'll STFU about it. 

 

I tend not to play PG using the extreme strength winds and do find that the Calm, Breezy and Gusty are working really well. Now we have even the lesser strength breeze having a small affect on the ball flight which I feel it should. So the revised wind changes are not all bad IMO and I thank the Dev's for making changes, but I feel a bit more tweaking is still required (as is the same with the hole lip physics).

 

IRL, breezes can even affect a rolling ball on fast greens as this article shows - http://www.paulhurri...verly affected.

 

As for the Winning Putt wind model, I cannot comment as don't play that.

[Sliceapottomus]

my test was run in practice mode on hole 1 at Florida glades so was def tree lined...

[Acrilix]

I could be wrong but I don't believe the game detects where trees are in its calculations, but instead simply decreases the wind effect below a certain height whether there are trees or not. I remember there was talk about a proper wind model early on in the game's development as a possible future improvement, but I don't remember there being any announcements that this was ever implemented.

As I say, I could be wrong though as my memory isn't the best these days! 

[jmk59]

Your memory is good, Acrillix.  I'm pretty sure that's exactly how it works.

I was testing at Winged Foot, tee shot on #8 where the trees are tall and very tight along the right side. With a gusty 18 mph wind coming from the right, my first thought was "my shot should be protected from the wind".  It wasn't - behaved just like the trees weren't there.

 

I think the wind height adjustment is made on a plot-wide basis.  Would be nice if it was on a hole-to-hole basis.

[Crow357]

Yeah, you could build a 5,000 ft wall around a hole, and there will still be wind.

[Sliceapottomus]

yeah very helpful there crow 

[jmk59]

I was thinking of something less extreme, Crow.  Like playing Pebble or Spyglass which have some parkland style holes and some exposed ocean side holes.  The links style "no trees wind off the ocean" is the character of the plot, but now the parkland holes don't play right.  I hope a hole-by-hole descriptor could be used as future update.

[bortimus]

jmk59, back in May I posted a suggestion that designers have the option to set the wind condition for each hole while building a course. I've copied it here:

"It would be interesting if each tee in CF would allow the designer to establish a wind effect for each hole, something like Normal/Exposed/Sheltered

Normal would be default, but for tees built on high open areas or holes closer to the ocean the designer could set those holes to play as "Exposed" so they play with a bit more wind compared to the rest of the course. Vice versa for holes lined with very tall trees or on any part of the course which is more sheltered.

That would add some interesting variety throughout the course and more realism overall."

[Armand]

I haven't played with the new wind model, but if the affect of trees is to be accounted for based on how many trees, how close they are to the fairway, how tall the trees are, which side of the hole the trees are located, etc. then it makes some sense to have the tree models contain the wind effects.  I have no idea how to incorporate more than one tree and how much affect three trees would have relative to one, or to 10 or 30, etc.

 

I'd love for this to be incorporated in the game, but I'm not sure assigning these attributes to tree objects would suffice.  Then, would the designers have to build "wind walls" for wind affects next to the trees ..... just as bortimus has just posted ahead of me.  

[bortimus]

I think having the wind setting built into the tees would be quick and simple in CF. A few seconds of time to select an option from a drop down box as each tee is placed.

During gameplay a percentage of wind speed would be added or subtracted on those chosen holes in relation to the general wind setting.

If nothing is selected in CF then the game just defaults to the selected wind setting for all holes.

I wonder if there is a performance cost to having the amount of trees calculated on each hole in order to base the wind effect?
Would it be simpler and less computationally demanding to have it preset in CF?

[Buck]

Is the wind situation a case where it's a drawback to have the entire course rendered at once vs the way old school where holes had to load each time, but could also theoretically have a whole load of unique elements and variables to them that wouldn't necessarily impact the entire course?

Seems like the limits on sound sets might be another case of that?

I'm not advocating for anything obviously...just discussion.