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2K Sports presents The Golf Club 2019 Featuring PGA TOUR


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#1141 JCat04

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 05:09 PM

AK, i never said release TGC 2 with no other improvement other than credible bunkers, obviously there has to be other improved features.  After the first game, bunker TLC should have been top of the list considering how hideous and immersion breaking they are, how could you guys at HB be happy to just let that slide. 

   Instead of bunker correction you focused on improving multiplayer ( remained broken )

   Implemented a tour mode ( forced you to play poor courses with wonky A.I. )

   Implemented tempo ( subject to frame rate consistency, so many head scratching results otherwise )

The tempo element should not have been used for the short game either, there is very little feel to any of the short game shots, its all tempo focused.  I play in real life and my short game is prob my best attribute, i played snooker at a high level for years and feel and touch is paramount in that sport, it transferred to golf's short game very well with me and became my best facet of play.  I don't even think about tempo playing chip shots or flops, it comes naturally with repetition, my focus is 100% feel.  With PG i can identify the short game with feel and touch to a decent degree, not so with TGC as its clunky, devoid of feel and too tempo focused.

 

DoGgs, I agree that the bunkers are not nearly up to current gen standards.  I've read Anthony's explanation about why they are what they are.  I understand the reasoning and the fact that they went with what they considered to be the more popular choice, feature wise.  Apparently they have information that tells them that course platform sharing is more popular than high image quality bunkers.  I can't argue with that because I don't have the data to back up either position.

 

I also understand that there is a demographic represented in this forum who put a high emphasis on bunker quality, but you have to realize that the PG userbase has been indoctrinated with them from the get-go, so they aren't going to be as tolerant of anything less.  TGC players, OTOH, have been indoctrinated with cross-platform course sharing from the get-go.  If high quality bunkers came at the cost of course sharing, there'd be a massive protest from the majority of the TGC userbase, I'd predict.  Many console users are restricted to 500 GB anyway, and when you start totaling up the cost of storage space that would be required for downloaded course files that would contain the needed data for custom bunkers, it adds up quickly.

 

I can see your point about the way tempo is implemented in TGC 2019.  I know in real life, my backswing to downswing speed ratio has far less to do with whether I hook or slice than my swing path.  In TGC 2019, the swing path only affects the degree of push or pull.  It really feels counter-intuitive.  It really gets wonky when I think of the fact that a slow downswing tempo results in a push that carries further than if you'd hit it with perfect downswing tempo!?  Still, I like the fact that they did get tempo into the mix because it calls upon the management of another variable during the swing.  You're right, the current interface takes much of the stroke management touch out of the game.  I find it next to impossible to play a 90/95% swing because the scaling seems to be so off.  It's a little better with chipping, but I agree with you that there's too much of an impact on the chip shot from tempo.


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#1142 Buck

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 09:37 PM

I wonder how many years will go by with the TGC excuse about bunkers before they actually do something about it?

 

Hopefully TGC 2020 will be a big refresh.

It's time.

 

The visuals are stale, at least in my opinion.

It just looks too much like TGC 1 still (the good and the bad parts in varying degrees).



#1143 JCat04

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 12:24 AM

I wonder how many years will go by with the TGC excuse about bunkers before they actually do something about it?

 

Hopefully TGC 2020 will be a big refresh.

It's time.

 

The visuals are stale, at least in my opinion.

It just looks too much like TGC 1 still (the good and the bad parts in varying degrees).

 

It's going to take a major change to bring about the sort of bunker look you, DoGgs, and others are speaking of.  I was going to say game engine type change, but JNPG also uses Unity, and it's bunkers are more more detailed and customized.  That's what makes me think the cross platform course sharing model that TGC uses is more responsible for the sub-standard bunkers.

 

I don't know that I'd agree that ALL the graphics of TGC 2019 are stale, in fact some of them look current gen, IMO.  I don't like the desert, rural, and tropical themes as I think they all look last-gen, and pre-last-gen in some cases.  There are some courses using those themes that are fun to play, but I have to turn a blind eye to the graphics as I play them.  Then again, I played Craig LeVasseur's Magnolia National (Tour) course today (Augusta National), I was stunned at how well it captured the look and feel of Augusta National, using the Boreal theme, of all things!?

 

I see a significant difference in the graphics quality of TGC 2019 and TGC 1, but I'll freely admit that TGC 2019's graphics aren't up to the level of graphics I thought we'd be seeing with this generation of hardware... on all three platforms.  I'd like to see HBS break away from Unity, but someone - like 2K - is going to have to bankroll them into another more advanced engine, but then I have to wonder how much, if any, of HBS' golf development team skilled in anything other than Unity?


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#1144 Buck

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 01:09 AM

It's going to take a major change to bring about the sort of bunker look you, DoGgs, and others are speaking of.  I was going to say game engine type change, but JNPG also uses Unity, and it's bunkers are more more detailed and customized.  That's what makes me think the cross platform course sharing model that TGC uses is more responsible for the sub-standard bunkers.

 
I really think they should re-think this on the whole.
There are certainly ways to do course sharing and a model that doesn't have to so emphasize "everyone make courses and share them and zillions of courses in the library!"
 
Honestly -we know the truth.  It's just like every other golf game that's had user created courses.
After the rush of fun of "having so many!", you quickly realize that you don't need that many and you only end up wanting ones from great designers.

 

...but I'll freely admit that TGC 2019's graphics aren't up to the level of graphics I thought we'd be seeing with this generation of hardware...


That's really the heart of what I'm getting at.
It's just so frustrating that this particular genre is so "stuck" visually vs so many others.


The gameplay is a whole different thing.
I personally don't enjoy it much and if that part never changes, I honestly will never be back anyhow, so my opinion here probably isn't worth much. lol

#1145 JCat04

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 01:43 AM

 
I really think they should re-think this on the whole.
There are certainly ways to do course sharing and a model that doesn't have to so emphasize "everyone make courses and share them and zillions of courses in the library!"
 
Honestly -we know the truth.  It's just like every other golf game that's had user created courses.
After the rush of fun of "having so many!", you quickly realize that you don't need that many and you only end up wanting ones from great designers.

 

That's really the heart of what I'm getting at.
It's just so frustrating that this particular genre is so "stuck" visually vs so many others.


The gameplay is a whole different thing.
I personally don't enjoy it much and if that part never changes, I honestly will never be back anyhow, so my opinion here probably isn't worth much. lol

 

I think most anyone would freely admit that the course sharing of zillions of crappy courses is not a virtue.  When I say course sharing, I'm speaking of the 40 or 50 truly quality designers that make courses of the Magnolia National (Tour)/Jupitor Ridge/Shinnecock Hills 19/Hyperion Fields caliber who are really being capitalized on here.  These are all - IMO - commercial grade courses that can be played on any of the three platforms because of course platform sharing.  For gamers to get bunkers of at least the quality of those of JNPG, HBS is going to have to go with the course file model of JNPG.  Sony is not going to permit the storage of files from an XBox One on their console, and vice-versa.  That's going to spread these high grade courses thinner on each platform and cut the availability of truly quality courses by a third.  I don't know the way around this, but I see it as an obstacle that has to be surpassed.

 

The gameplay is a far more subjective matter, so yeah, there's not a whole lot of room for discussion here.  Either you can get something out of TGC 2019's gameplay, or you can't.  I can, but not for all the reasons I'd like to and it scares me to think about how much this game would consume me if it did.  OTOH, I can understand why other gamers, such as yourself don't like the gameplay of the TGC series.  JNPG is closer to getting what I want out of the swing interface and the ability to hit partial shots, but I can't get past the two generation old swing animation.  I also wish that PP had been able to incorporate a tempo component into the gamepad swing... one that affected distance and pull or push, rather than hook or slice.    It sounds like they were shooting for a tempo component in the thumbstick swing, but decided against it in the end.


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#1146 Buck

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 02:21 AM

I don't know the way around this, but I see it as an obstacle that has to be surpassed.


Agreed

#1147 Buck

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 02:22 AM

I also wish that PP had been able to incorporate a tempo component into the gamepad swing...


Hard pass for me honestly - I totally love RTS-C

The only thing that would make it even better for me is if it was even more real time.

 

I LOVE the subtle nuance that allows partial power

 

That said - certainly never opposed to some tempo component that is done interestingly.

 

The way TGC did theirs is "odd" to me.

Weren't they telling people to use tempo to do fades and draws or something like that?

(forgive me if memory is off - been awhile)



#1148 DoGgs

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 01:30 PM

The tempo in TGC is fine off the tee or on approach, if they remove it for the short game and make chips, flops and pitches more granular and feel focused they will have a great golf game on their hands, but the trouble with HB is that they don't take any advice from people that actually play golf.  Juts by changing that short game facet would improve the game 10 fold...shame they will never do it.


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#1149 Buck

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 05:28 PM

Since some are heading over to TGC these days, I thought I'd poke around and try to find some great course "look" work over there.

Happily came across some very nice work on Valderrama w/ LIDAR

 

En90PG1.jpgBiNhFoi.jpgNwWvMhJ.jpg9rb0w7U.jpg

WFnb0RQ.jpgiEqEJRK.jpg

 

 

These seem like great examples of getting the most out of what the designer can do.

 

I wish the designer of this course would have matched up the sun angles for a better comparison.  

On the top comparison he literally has opposite sun directions going.  (see the player shadow..), and on the 2nd set they are off by 90 from each other.

 

Would be great for the lighting direction to match up for a comparison like this.

 

Usually the scaling of objects in TGC immediately draws my ire (too large), but it seems mostly ok here, but maybe even still things are a touch too big relative to the golfer.  Hard to say - Some FOV effects might be at play also.

 

All that said - he's done a really nice job here I think.

 

Source:  http://www.hb-studio...ic,27974.0.html


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#1150 JCat04

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 06:15 PM

I saw this yesterday and didn't have time to get a round in.  I'm going to have to try to work it in sometime today, between Society rounds I've got to stay on top of.  If Han had stuck with Golfer View option 3 for his screens, he'd have a perspective that would have had to golfer more closely scaled to Sergio in his comparison images. 

 

Another great looking LiDAR course is Jericho National, which was the site of our Digital Sportspage Society 18 hole daily yesterday.  There were times when I had to do a double take to know whether I was looking at a photo of the real course or the game.  The high altitude overhead screenshots of it on TGC Tours forum post about it made it look vanilla... the only reason I gave it a chance and set it for the tournament was because it was "LiDAR" and it was a course I'm somwhat familiar with.  This course is a LOOKER and a great, fair golf challenge!


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#1151 Buck

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 06:29 PM

JC, Please do share some screenshots when you get a chance

#1152 JCat04

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 06:42 PM

JC, Please do share some screenshots when you get a chance

 

 

Will do... it's worthy of my attention.


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#1153 slewin

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 08:53 PM

Uh oh,
Hope I’m not encouraging people away for PP and making the devs job easier to walk away from this community.

#1154 Buck

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 09:17 PM

Uh oh,
Hope I’m not encouraging people away for PP and making the devs job easier to walk away from this community.

 

Not me, that's for sure.

I don't love the gameplay in TGC as much as RTS-C on PG still, but, I want to be fair to their progress on visuals, especially the course designers.

 

They course designers in TGC are definitely "upping the game" which is great to see.

 

I really hope the next version seriously deals with the bunkers and a variety of other long standing visual & physics issues.

Hopefully JC is right and we'll see/hear something in early June about whatever might be next.



#1155 DoGgs

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 09:39 PM

Remove the tempo from the short game, keep it for off the tee and long approach and add more degrees of control and i'm in, i don't play PG anymore and TGC is a million miles off my radar as it stands.  The license tagged with TGC may as well not be there, its not all encompassing, just a few ok'ish courses and that's about it, the tour bares no resemblance, its all a bit Meh!

My dream is still for a big triple A company to snap it up with a full style PGA tour presentation, players and great core mechanics...one can dream!


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#1156 Buck

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 10:45 PM

I'm excited for whenever the bunker edges don't look like this...

Is it supposed to be rock?  or what are the edges?

 

Just "something" sort of brown looking?

Looks a bit like a brown Moon surface

 

Does the ball hit and stay "in" that edge as though it is sand?

 

qb3yYtz.png



#1157 LeazesNDR

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 11:01 AM

Uh oh,
Hope I’m not encouraging people away for PP and making the devs job easier to walk away from this community.

Hopefully you are giving the JNPG devs a good ol' kick up the backside with your announcement! 



#1158 Tigers Agent

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 11:23 AM

Uh oh,
Hope I’m not encouraging people away for PP and making the devs job easier to walk away from this community.

please.. don't flatter yourself.



#1159 DoGgs

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 04:10 PM

Wouldn't matter how many designers defect to TGC, it's one thing making nice real courses for it, but if the game play is bang average like it is imo, then nothing could make me reinstall it again.  Even if i was still playing this game it would matter not if we never saw another course release, we have enough to sate anyone's desires, i was just looking thru the course listings at PGLS and although i have put many hours into the game i have not played half of whats available.


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#1160 JCat04

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 05:17 PM

JC, Please do share some screenshots when you get a chance

 

 

Grabbed a few this morning and I'm working on getting them posted right now.


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