185 replies to this topic

[Greensboronclion]

If we could get an update to PG1 with a career mode I would be good with that and I think most here would also. It's the one thing that I miss in the game and it would be wonderful if that could happen. By the way I would pay for that and not asking for free just wanting and willing to pay.

[Buck]

I'd personally just rather have PG2 with the updated graphics.

 

The "game" aspects (like career modes) would seem to have little value to Trackman simulator users so it's hard to imagine them investing resources in it.

[jspirate]

They will have to solve this in some way because the assets from Unity 5_2_3 don't magically port over to Unity 2018 or whatever they are using. There will be some courses conversion process that may or may not involve some man hours for conversion.

 Unity 2018 please!

[jurgie]

I might as well mention it here since I had already pointed it out long ago in the bug section of this forum and it was never addressed for whatever reason. If you are thinking of playing a round against a computer player I would suggest that you abandon that idea because simply put it is a total waste of time. The computer player has a serious bug which raises its ugly head in every round on all the courses I have played using computer players as opponents. Everything will seem normal for  several holes and often the computer player plays very well. Then all of a sudden, he will start missing putts inside of 12 inches. This occurs at least five times during any round. These are putts that a  guy who has never played a round of golf could make blindfolded. Needless to say, there is very little challenge in beating the computer guy. Furthermore, this occurs in both stroke or match play and if you choose to play against two computer payers, they will eventually both start missing putts that are virtually impossible not to make.

[RobV]

I might as well mention it here since I had already pointed it out long ago in the bug section of this forum and it was never addressed for whatever reason. If you are thinking of playing a round against a computer player I would suggest that you abandon that idea because simply put it is a total waste of time. The computer player has a serious bug which raises its ugly head in every round on all the courses I have played using computer players as opponents. Everything will seem normal for  several holes and often the computer player plays very well. Then all of a sudden, he will start missing putts inside of 12 inches. This occurs at least five times during any round. These are putts that a  guy who has never played a round of golf could make blindfolded. Needless to say, there is very little challenge in beating the computer guy. Furthermore, this occurs in both stroke or match play and if you choose to play against two computer payers, they will eventually both start missing putts that are virtually impossible not to make.

I dunno.. I have a variety of AI players, with all different skill settings and I have never run into the issues you have indicated here.   In fact, I often get beat by some of the AI that I have created..   The AI definitely need work no doubt, but through trial and error, I have found a happy medium to where I was able to create players a little worse than I am, but yet, a little better than I am in terms of skill.   It is actually pretty challenging and when I am not participating in tournaments, the AI are always available to play.   haha. 

[jmk59]

Set gimmies to 3 ft.  This eliminates 75% of these shortcomings in the AI.

[shimonko]

If we could get an update to PG1 with a career mode I would be good with that and I think most here would also. It's the one thing that I miss in the game and it would be wonderful if that could happen. By the way I would pay for that and not asking for free just wanting and willing to pay.

How much? $20?

If so, your $20 doesn't mean too much.

For a career mode similar to TGC2019's - but without the PGA branding, I would cost at about $50k-$100k to develop.

Let's be optimistic and assume people would be happy enough with the base $50k version not to constantly demand improvements.

Double it to $100k to make it worthwhile for Trackman and to cover the risk of it flopping.

Steam takes 30% - we're now at $140k.

7000 sales needed. For a career mode with no PGA branding.

That's just under 20% of all owners of this game from the start, most of which bought the game years ago and no longer play. 

I think your best chance would be to do a kickstarter to get least $250k up front upfront to prove it's a worthwhile addition. But I think you'd do extremely well to get a tenth of that, and $250k probably wouldn't be enough to divert Trackman from their core business unless they felt it was also worthwhile for their VG2 players. From what I've seen of Trackman owners, they tend to be mostly training academies or sim studios - of which the range and one-off rounds are the go rather than career modes.

Also consider that Trackman had the option of grandfathering existing, non-competing simulator users continued use of JNPG for that much money *per year* and weren't interested. And that was just for dealing with sim pass queries and SkyTrak. Development is risky and super expensive.

[Buck]

To sum up what Shimonko said..

 

"dis be it boys"

[jt83]

I keep coming back to this - wouldn't any income from Skytrak users better nothing at all ?  How many users of competing sim setups would buy a Trackman even if it's the only option ?

[shimonko]

To sum up what Shimonko said..

 

"dis be it boys"

Not at all, more that I can't see PC users getting major new features that haven't been primarily done for Trackman's core product.

[Skunky]

I keep coming back to this - wouldn't any income from Skytrak users better nothing at all ?  How many users of competing sim setups would buy a Trackman even if it's the only option ?

if you own the best simulator software ,would you want your direct competition to also have it at a 3rd the cost.i understand  why they did this business wise.what i dont understand is why they didnt grandfather the allready existing .paying members.just dont allow new  skytrack, gc2 ect...members to buy the subscription.they allready had it set in place ,why did they change.

[Buck]

I can't see PC users getting major new features that haven't been primarily done for Trackman's core product.

 

I agree with you.

What we have now are the features we're getting and no more

[GolfGuy72_2000]

if you own the best simulator software ,would you want your direct competition to also have it at a 3rd the cost.i understand  why they did this business wise.what i dont understand is why they didnt grandfather the allready existing .paying members.just dont allow new  skytrack, gc2 ect...members to buy the subscription.they allready had it set in place ,why did they change.

 

I keep coming back to this - wouldn't any income from Skytrak users better nothing at all ?  How many users of competing sim setups would buy a Trackman even if it's the only option ?

I totally agree with jt83 on this, and also with Skunky on the grandfathering aspect. The TM units capable of simulation are almost 10x as expensive as a SkyTrak, and are around 3x as expensive as a GC2. On top of that, the TM requires a minimum of a 17' deep area to hit in, with a suggested depth of 26'. Not too many people have that kind of space to dedicate in their homes without spending a lot more money to create the proper setup. The SkyTrak and GC2 function well in comparatively smaller spaces.

My point is, I'm not sure I'd consider TM to be in direct competition with the SkyTrak, GC2, and other similar launch monitors. For the reasons I mentioned above, I can't see many SkyTrak and GC2 users jumping ship next August and purchasing a TM just because they no longer have access to JNPG. I'm in that group, and I'll be going back full time to TGC, and will probably upgrade to TGC 2019. I can't imagine I'm the only one who will be doing this. So in making this move, TM has not only lost my annual $250 subscription, they've helped fund the competition, rather than growing their share of the market.

The only way I could see TM being directly competitive is if they would come out with a new launch monitor that comes in around the price of the SkyTrak, needs about as much space, and offers equal - if not better - functionality. And even in that case, it's going to be a tremendous uphill battle for TM to win customers like me back over, given how poorly they've treated us with this move. Why would I trust them to do the right thing next time when they didn't this time?

I wholeheartedly agree that TM should allow current subscribers to keep their ability to renew, Skunky. I would be a lot more forgiving and understanding if they would have grandfathered us in, while providing an end date for new customers to sign up. This actually is pretty much what they did, but then decided to take it a step further recently and rip the rug out from under the JNPG simulator community entirely. In doing so, they'll be losing out on an estimated six figure annual income stream. It makes no sense from a business standpoint, and they've done next to nothing to smooth over the hard feelings they've created.

Thanks for your posts, jt83 and Skunky. And Skunky, thanks also for all your great JNPG courses!

[jt83]

Is there one Skytrak user we know of who intends to buy a Trackman though?  It's like TM have bought a Hyundai dealership and started to sell Bugattis.  Hmm.

[Buck]

The forum have turned into the guy that she "tried to tell nicely and subtly, there is no chance, it's over, she's moving on"..

 

And we are veering into being "the stalker"...still talking about her, walking by the house, hoping to see her in public, still texting and calling in vain..

 

We just won't take the hint for some reason..

 

It's tough to swallow, but she found someone better and with more money..

Soon she'll probably have to change her number and move to get rid of us..

[zmax - sim]

Golfguy72,

OGT will not be switching to an inferior TGC19 software.....

[Buck]

Golfguy72,

OGT will not be switching to an inferior TGC19 software.....

 

Why not?

Didn't you hear? 

TGC fixed the bug with course plays not showing correctly and now the homer hats are back on over there.

 

"HB Rocks!"

"Never should have you doubted you guys!"

"Thanks Keith!"

"Where is King Kyne?"

"TGC 20/21 for **SURE** after XXXXX upcoming golf show!"

"I'll bet more PGA branding with 40 courses and 30 pro players and a complete PGA tour is coming!!"

"Good things come to those who wait!"

"They're waiting for the Masters (pick any year) to release the beast!"

"Once 2k is done XXXXX other product that actually makes money, they'll hyper focus on NEXT GEN GOLF baby!!"

[GolfGuy72_2000]

Is there one Skytrak user we know of who intends to buy a Trackman though?  It's like TM have bought a Hyundai dealership and started to sell Bugattis.  Hmm.

That's a great analogy, jt83!  Only I doubt the dealership would flat out refuse its old Hyundai customers service, or their money. And I personally have not heard of a single person looking to switch from a SkyTrak to a TM. It seems like a bit of a stretch. I read other golf simulator forums, and the big focus is on SkyTrak first, then GC2, and then the smaller players. Great comment, jt83!
 

The forum have turned into the guy that she "tried to tell nicely and subtly, there is no chance, it's over, she's moving on"..

 

And we are veering into being "the stalker"...still talking about her, walking by the house, hoping to see her in public, still texting and calling in vain..

 

We just won't take the hint for some reason..

 

It's tough to swallow, but she found someone better and with more money..

Soon she'll probably have to change her number and move to get rid of us..

You have a point here, Buck. But the difference is, after a multi-year relationship, TM and PP have barely been in touch at all, other than to say simulator service would end as of next August. With as much as the simulator community has invested in this software and put our faith in its developers, we deserve more communication than we've gotten. A little communication - an explanation, an apology, something - from the developers would go a long way.

[Buck]

That's a great analogy, jt83!  Only I doubt the dealership would flat out refuse its old Hyundai customers service, or their money. And I personally have not heard of a single person looking to switch from a SkyTrak to a TM. It seems like a bit of a stretch. I read other golf simulator forums, and the big focus is on SkyTrak first, then GC2, and then the smaller players. Great comment, jt83!
 

You have a point here, Buck. But the difference is, after a multi-year relationship, TM and PP have barely been in touch at all, other than to say simulator service would end as of next August. With as much as the simulator community has invested in this software and put our faith in its developers, we deserve more communication than we've gotten. A little communication - an explanation, an apology, something - from the developers would go a long way.

 

 

She doesn't want to date us anymore.

The relationship is over my friend - she's moved on..

[GolfGuy72_2000]

Golfguy72,

OGT will not be switching to an inferior TGC19 software.....

Good point! Will you really be ready by August? If so, that's awesome, and I look forward to seeing what you come up with! Either way, my money won't be going to TM. So much for their efforts to woo me by shutting down JNPG