102 replies to this topic

[Dazmaniac]

If I may add something more, perhaps in line of what Mike was thinking when he stated ;

 

 

I like this idea, as I've stated above in how having Golfer attributes can make this work.

 

By having different Golfer Attributes,  none of this will see the exact same shot from the tee or any part of the course. Putting may be something totally different, but the only usual benefit gained in watching another golfer putting, is seeing the break on a roll toward the cup. Knowing how hard to hit the putt isn't something that should become easier for the person closer to the hole, because you watched another golfer. On many golf games, we often gain benefits in this way seeing how to recreate the same shot from the previous golfer.

 

Perhaps a change from the above, still keeping in mind what Mike stated, is to remove the visuals of the shot details from other golfers. Maybe call it Tournament Mode, where no-one sees anything but the golfer swing and the result. No meters are displayed or power bars, therefore you may only gain a visual in how your opponent used a full swing or a three quarter..  but no specific marks on the swingometer.

 

I only wanted to add this extra comment to ensure those reading understood there may be many ways to introduce something they don't like, mainly because of the way they feel it's being introduced.

 

I'd be all for that Ian.

 

When playing either online with an opponent or with a CPU partner or recorded round, when the opponent is playing their shot, all you see is the player animation playing the shot, but with no swingmeter, club info etc.

 

[IanD]

Daz, sorry fella... maybe Mike did actually mean magic elements being added.. found this ;

 

 

Hehe.. sorry, couldn't resist...

[Mike Jones]

I'll answer my own question - the reason not everyone uses the same club is that they believe, rightly or wrongly that the set of clubs they use suits them better than other types of clubs (budget permitting).

 

The reason for this preference, can come down to shaft flex, shaft length, shaft weight, shaft torque, head size, head weight, head construction, shaft and head material, grip size etc etc etc. There are a massive amount of variables that contribute to why a golfer likes a certain club type more than others. The same can be said for golf balls, ie when you're a beginner it makes little difference what ball you use as it will have a minimum impact on how you play the game. As you get better however, you might start to use balls with compression that suits your clubhead speed and also a ball material and construction that suits your distance and spin requirements. Some people like a high spinning ball and others like to use a lower spinning ball because their swing characteristics and shot preference are different from player to player.

 

You see we have no reason to introduce 'Magic clubs' in Perfectgolf, all we will try to emulate  is to replicate as closely as possible the way real golf works. If you would prefer that everyone plays with the same equipment and swing characteristics then to me that is totally unrealistic and indeed some might call that 'arcade golf'! 

[IanD]

Yeah... go Mike... tell 'em..!

 

[Kablammo11]

That's acceptable - might have been conveyed 5 days earlier without educational riddles, though. If I have to jump through any RPG hoops to get to this stuff, though, or will be asked to endure the slow creep of yet another fake computer golf "career" just to get to it, I will be very very very very very very very very disappointed and angry.

Almost as angry as your malicious ineptitude to issue Mac apps makes me. 

[Andrew]

Couple of point to add...

1) On the subject of Macs, our goal is to release a MAC build of the physics alpha.  I was discussing this with someone yesterday, we just need to get the right people on board to help us out in this area.  Once this is sorted MAC and Linux builds should be released at the same time as PC builds

2) On the golf club issue our goal is to provide a real life simulation of golf.  That means you will NOT be able to buy a decent game.  However, as MJ pointed out, there are differences in types of balls, shafts, etc.  So players who want to play a lower spin ball that is more rock like should be able to, there will be positives and negatives of those decisions.  Similarly different shafts.  But we will not have clubs that you can buy in our store that give you better skills as a golfer.  This is the difference between set up choices and RPG hoops as you call them.  When you play a car game you can set your car up with different characteristics (oversteer, understeer etc) that suit your driving style.  Similarly in golf different clubs balls etc will suit your game.  Its about selecting a combination that enables you to score.  So lets say you go with a Driver, and all drivers have a default in air distance of 265 Yards.  Now you tend to miss the snap a little to the right (ball to right for this example) so you have a club that allows you to close the clubface by 1 degree... Then you play a club that has a lower launch angle (9 degrees)  This will give you a lower landing angle and more roll but will cause snap misses to go more to the left and right.  Then you play a ball that has a higher spin rate.  This will cause you to lose a little distance but will give you more spin on the ball around the greens.  

Everything is a trade off in setup.  To me this is fine, but every choice is a compromise.  You cant just go buy a driver that goes 350 off the tee or a wedge that allows you to change the spin during its flight or a glove that slows the swing meter down or any of that stuff.....

[highfade]

So I see in the main menu of the game "Fitment Lab" tab.

 

According to my virtual swing I need a driver with 9 degree loft, set slightly open with X-flex shaft with stiff tip. I go for muscle back blade irons with a small sweet spot (my snapping is quite good) for work-ability. With the cavity backs I won't lose as much distance with a miss snap but I won't be able to work like with the blades. And the blades look better.

 

True simulation, I like it   

[mjhamilton113]

What Andrew and mike have said today have really given a boost to my hopes that this will be the best golf simulation ever created

[Acrilix]

What Andrew and mike have said today have really given a boost to my hopes that this will be the best golf simulation ever created

 

Couldn't agree more. I just hope their vision can be translated into code that works as well as it sounds.  

[Dazmaniac]

I'll answer my own question - the reason not everyone uses the same club is that they believe, rightly or wrongly that the set of clubs they use suits them better than other types of clubs (budget permitting).

 

The reason for this preference, can come down to shaft flex, shaft length, shaft weight, shaft torque, head size, head weight, head construction, shaft and head material, grip size etc etc etc. There are a massive amount of variables that contribute to why a golfer likes a certain club type more than others. The same can be said for golf balls, ie when you're a beginner it makes little difference what ball you use as it will have a minimum impact on how you play the game. As you get better however, you might start to use balls with compression that suits your clubhead speed and also a ball material and construction that suits your distance and spin requirements. Some people like a high spinning ball and others like to use a lower spinning ball because their swing characteristics and shot preference are different from player to player.

 

You see we have no reason to introduce 'Magic clubs' in Perfectgolf, all we will try to emulate  is to replicate as closely as possible the way real golf works. If you would prefer that everyone plays with the same equipment and swing characteristics then to me that is totally unrealistic and indeed some might call that 'arcade golf'! 

 

If you had said this in the first place instead of the 'RPG elements' riddle, it would have been much easier to comprehend, lol.

 

I'm all for PP trying to replicate the real game of golf as close as you can, and believe this is the way to go. I just didn't want to see the game offering 'this shaft for +10% accuracy' etc.

 

All is well in my world now.

 

[Mike Jones]

Essentially every time you play a computer game you are role playing in some way.

 

I'm keen on the idea of letting people set their golfer up with it's own individual strengths and weaknesses but as AJ said, you won't be able to buy your way to an unrealistically better game but it does leave the door open for lots of different gameplay variety. If the PGA tour was made up of 200 Zach Johnsons would anyone watch? (before anyone jumps on me I like Zach Johnson!)

[mjhamilton113]

Mike I think you're spot on about your Zach Johnson comment. It will be fascinating to see different style players emulated in the game because it will create an ultra realistic game. Long courses may be difficult for short ball hitters, but it may be possible for them to make strides in different areas and outsmart with course management similar to what Zach did in his masters victory. I'm getting more excited now I just want to see this be enacted

[Andrew]

Hard to watch with one ZJ let alone 120 of them......

[Dazmaniac]

Essentially every time you play a computer game you are role playing in some way.

 

I'm keen on the idea of letting people set their golfer up with it's own individual strengths and weaknesses but as AJ said, you won't be able to buy your way to an unrealistically better game but it does leave the door open for lots of different gameplay variety. If the PGA tour was made up of 200 Zach Johnsons would anyone watch? (before anyone jumps on me I like Zach Johnson!)

 

Probably not. But if there were 200 Zach Johnson's, there is no guarantee that they would all play the same shot at the same time, so it wouldn't be as if you were watching the very same round 200 times, lol.

 

Like playing Links 2003. We all essentially have the same clubs. We choose our skill level and swing type and off we go. The main factor in playing Links 2003 is each players individual ability to play the game. So if 50 folks tee it up over at OWGC, we have 50 Zach Johnson's because Links doesn't have any variations to gameplay based on clubs, shafts, balls etc. Everyone gets the same (only cosmetic changes make the gameplay look different). The differences come based on how we each play the game.

 

It would be the same with Perfect Golf. We could all play using the same clubs and balls, but the scores would depend on each players ability to play the game. So whilst we would start as 50 Zach Johnson's (because we all have the same equipment) there is no guarantee we would all shoot the same score.

 

[Mike Jones]

So if 50 folks tee it up over at OWGC, we have 50 Zach Johnson's because Links doesn't have any variations to gameplay based on clubs, shafts, balls etc. 

 

I'd like to think we're moving the game on from Links and like I said before the idea of balancing would be to make sure that no particular style of player would have a distinct advantage so actual game skill would always win out. 

[IanD]

Serious me this time....

 

I love the aims of what you guys are seeking to achieve. The ability, with Trackman, to visually study the data from your own rounds of golf played on various courses should allow us numerous options to adapt our own styles. Naturally, as Andrew mentioned, the ability to enter the Shop and purchase adjustments to your setup are ideal. I do have concerns here, as some may decide to have an opinion that you can "buy a decent game".

 

Feel like we've come full circle on how some had concerns regarding the game becoming some kind of attribute system. But, in all honesty, I don't see any other way of achieivng a real life simulation. Just peoples interpretation of what they see..

 

I say bring it on...

[axe360]

I'd like to think we're moving the game on from Links and like I said before the idea of balancing would be to make sure that no particular style of player would have a distinct advantage so actual game skill would always win out. 

 

This has me very encouraged. I like the way your thinking Mike..

[woodworkery]

Will there be a shot clock? In other words will there be like 60 seconds to take your shot?

[Dazmaniac]

I'd like to think we're moving the game on from Links and like I said before the idea of balancing would be to make sure that no particular style of player would have a distinct advantage so actual game skill would always win out. 

 

So do I (like I said in an earlier reply)...

 

I'm all for PP trying to replicate the real game of golf as close as you can, and believe this is the way to go.