104 replies to this topic

[MERACE]

Yea, the trajectory numbers that TGC is getting is real time, but when you hit the ball, the game has decided a canned response on where the ball is going to land. In PG the ball is hit and the finish position isn't decided till the ball comes to rest. I'm not an expert, but it seems TGC uses real time measurement, but no real time physics. 

According to the TGC developer they do have real time physics:

"I’ve had quite a few PM’s this week about our physics system in the game and questions about whether we will be moving towards an ‘Emergent Physics’ system. From what I understand this is a real time physics system that affects the ball in real time, rather than predicting everything up front and forcing the ball along a path that is predetermined. Well there is good news for you and us, because we don’t have to do any work. Our game already does this. Everything is happening in real time, look how many times John has to correct himself." (http://thegolfclubga...ry-long-season/)

it's debatable as to which golf game has the most realistic physics, but IMO both games for the most part have fairly realistic physics.


-MERACE

[AwYea]

Okay, i stand corrected on the simulator side of things. That looks pretty impressive and much more than i thought.

 

Still, playing on PC it's apples and oranges. Playing Perfect Golf on PC with RTS-mouse is the equivalent of playing on a simulator, something the TGC can't touch playing with a controller on PC. Not bashing TGC, even on PC, but it's light years behind PG playing purely on PC with a mouse or any other control option PG has to offer.

[Acrilix]

According to the TGC developer they do have real time physics:

 

If you've played TGC for any length of time, studied the camera views and listened to the commentary you know this is not actually the case, compared to PG. The distance comments, and corrections alone give this away. The game knows the flight path as soon as it's struck, because the changing wind 's affect on the ball is set at launch. HBS are just telling their version of the truth here, and it's not the same as PG's version! Yes, the game may be calculating something in real time but they are not calculating the complete physics system as PG does. I think the "from what I understand..." is the get-out clause!!

[flyer01]

At first I thought "real time physics" was easy enough to understand. Basically the game does not know the final position of the ball until after it comes to rest. Playing 3click or MS in PG, it seems to be more complicated than this. Tee to green the ball generally rolls out  for 2-3 ft. after the game has already calculated the final distance and elevation. I have hit balls onto steep slopes in bunkers and the roll out can be 5-6 ft after the game has already calculated the distance and elevation. On the green with longer putts the game can show a putt has been holed 5-6 ft. before it actually goes in. On really short putts the elevation and distance changes to 0's before the ani even finishes the backswing. One might think this has something to do with the ani being just a replay of what has already happened at the swing meter. None of this happens using RTS. So, does the game know the final resting place of the ball as soon as I make my 3rd click or when I finish my forward motion in MS? If you want to check it out yourself you have to record the original shot because replays do not show elevation and distance then just play around with the pause button. 

[MERACE]

If you've played TGC for any length of time, studied the camera views and listened to the commentary you know this is not actually the case, compared to PG. The distance comments, and corrections alone give this away. The game knows the flight path as soon as it's struck, because the changing wind 's affect on the ball is set at launch. HBS are just telling their version of the truth here, and it's not the same as PG's version! Yes, the game may be calculating something in real time but they are not calculating the complete physics system as PG does. I think the "from what I understand..." is the get-out clause!!

So if I'm understanding you correctly, you're basically saying Anthony is misrepresenting TGC's real time physics engine when he says it's the same as PG's "Emergent Physics" system?


-MERACE

[Buck]

So if I'm understanding you correctly, you're basically saying Anthony is misrepresenting TGC's real time physics engine when he says it's the same as PG's "Emergent Physics" system?


-MERACE

 

lol - Trying to start something?  

 

In all seriousness - Something is more scripted with the way TGC does it, as only in that game (not PG) did I constantly feel like I was literally hitting the exact same shot many times.  

 

I remember what a revelation Motion Swing in PG was for me, for that precise reason.  Every single swing felt alive and different and I never once saw two flight paths and results that were as "precisely the same" feeling as seemed to be routinely the feeling I would get in TGC.

[MERACE]

lol - Trying to start something?  

 

In all seriousness - Something is more scripted with the way TGC does it, as only in that game (not PG) did I constantly feel like I was literally hitting the exact same shot many times.  

 

I remember what a revelation Motion Swing in PG was for me, for that precise reason.  Every single swing felt alive and different and I never once saw two flight paths and results that were as "precisely the same" feeling as seemed to be routinely the feeling I would get in TGC.

 

Ha, no I'm not trying to "start" something.   I just wanted to be clear on what Acrilix is actually stating.

 

As for shot results and ball flight feeling different on "every single swing" I can't say that I experience this in either game.  Maybe a little more variance in PG (TP) if I'm not concentrating intensely on my shot execution.

 

I was assured in a private message from the TGC developer (Anthony) that the physics in TGC are truly "real-time" from pre-shot, ball in the air (including wind, air temperature, humidity, atmosphere), and ball on the ground.  

 

Again, I'm not arguing which game has the "best" physics as that is fairly subjective, but I guess I just choose to give the developers of both games the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

 

-MERACE

[Buck]

I was assured in a private message from the TGC developer (Anthony) that the physics in TGC are truly "real-time" from pre-shot, ball in the air (including wind, air temperature, humidity, atmosphere), and ball on the ground.  

 

I would like to believe that TGC is that in depth, but I'm having a really hard time believing it based upon my experiences with the end product.

 

Oh well - None of that matters if the tee-green game is boring to many due to catering to lower common denominators on swing challenge.

[Acrilix]

So if I'm understanding you correctly, you're basically saying Anthony is misrepresenting TGC's real time physics engine when he says it's the same as PG's "Emergent Physics" system?


-MERACE

 

I don't believe Anthony has ever stated that it's the same as PG's 'Emergent Physics', just that they use emergent physics as he understands the term. There is one give away shot that is proof that it is not the same.... when you are playing to a par 3 green and the ball is going to pitch long the commentary says so, whether it will pitch a foot long or twenty feet. This is never incorrect and considering how the wind can change in TGC during the shot and the excessive affect of wind in this game it proves that the ball is not reacting to the wind variable in real time.

[Buck]

... when you are playing to a par 3 green and the ball is going to pitch long the commentary says so, whether it will pitch a foot long or twenty feet. This is never incorrect and considering how the wind can change in TGC during the shot and the excessive affect of wind in this game it proves that the ball is not reacting to the wind variable in real time.

 

Great detail!  I never would have discovered that as I found the commentary instantly weird and creepy (like some random dude in his basement was watching me and commenting or something..) and turned it off.

 

For me "commentary" needs to either be a full blown "TV style" thing or I'm out.  No desire to have a random guy making comments

[MERACE]

I don't believe Anthony has ever stated that it's the same as PG's 'Emergent Physics', just that they use emergent physics as he understands the term. There is one give away shot that is proof that it is not the same.... when you are playing to a par 3 green and the ball is going to pitch long the commentary says so, whether it will pitch a foot long or twenty feet. This is never incorrect and considering how the wind can change in TGC during the shot and the excessive affect of wind in this game it proves that the ball is not reacting to the wind variable in real time.

Anthony may never have specifically stated that TGC's real-time physics is exactly the same as PG's "Emergent Physics",  but the way I read the Developer Diary it seemed to imply that it was the same to me.

 

As for John's commentary regarding the shot results, Anthony also stated to me in the PM that to help John with the commentary they do a very simple predict on the shot so it doesn't slow the game down and that's why John often has to correct himself.

 

Anyways, thanks for clarifying to me what you meant in your previous post. 

 

-MERACE

[DoGgs]

The wind in TGC is a joke, a 5mph wind moving the ball as much as it does is not realistic, yet HB claim that science has been applied to the method...sorry but its bs.... IRL i don't even have to adjust for a 5 mph wind as its neglible.

[Buck]

The wind in TGC is a joke, a 5mph wind moving the ball as much as it does is not realistic, yet HB claim that science has been applied to the method...sorry but its bs.... IRL i don't even have to adjust for a 5 mph wind as its neglible.

 

Totally agree - Was straight up arcade style w/ regard to the wind & how'd you'd have to aim so drastically to counter act it.

[mebby]

Totally agree - Was straight up arcade style w/ regard to the wind & how'd you'd have to aim so drastically to counter act it.

And heaven forbid you have a sidehill lie AND wind to contend with.  You might have to aim into the next county in order to have a prayer of hitting your target.

[zmax - sim]

Side hill lies are working in TGC now?  Last time I played TGC (long time ago), they didn't appear to be working. 

 

As for the wind, last week I played outside and had a few holes where the wind was about 20 mph cross wind.  On well struck shots, wind had little effect.   Seem like PG got the cross wind right.

[Buck]

Well, we are another month down the road and TGC looks like it's basically dead.

The developer continues to drag his feet and throw up rather defensive retorts to any questions about when updates might come, or if they've shifted to a new game internally....or really anything of substance.

I've noticed the "feel" from the longtime supporters on that forum is starting to get a bit irritated, understandably so. This has even included some PM's with a few diehards over there who are very worried if there's a real TGC future or not.

TGC still has so many niggling issues, missing features, physics and swing issues...on and on.
It's disheartening to see how they've essentially stopped updating it for now.

You can forget a lobby for multiplayer over there...right now people are hoping for *any* sort of updates at this point, let alone entirely new major features.
:-(

[mebby]

The latest Dev Diary was my personal favorite.  Over half of it was simply Anthony bragging and patting himself on the back.  And the only thing of substance (and I use this term very loosely) was the last paragraph that basically said they are going to spend the coming weeks writing Dev Diary posts that chronicle the evolution of TGC from launch day until now.  Sigh... really?  So now we're to the point that they feel their time is best spent writing an autobiography??

It just feels like another stall tactic.  Anthony will tell you that this is a time of reflection so that they can study the game and make it better.  BS.  If they don't know the game by now then they haven't done their jobs.

I've given up hope on TGC.  Time for a new captain of the ship over there.

[Buck]

The latest Dev Diary was my personal favorite....

 

Yeah - The tone sure has shifted into "greatest hits" - "remember that time when we did great things" - "behind the scenes of our 2014 game's creation" (yep..it's still 2016)

 

There are many long time voices on that forum now clamoring for updates to continue as promised, some news that means something...etc..

 

I don't get if  there's a revenue problem or the developer is just stubborn and loves the continual revenue coming in from unsuspecting purchasers of an apparently no longer being updated game, or what the deal is..

[Dazmaniac]

Surely ADX and John Eric are still singing the corporate song?

[Buck]

Surely ADX and John Eric are still singing the corporate song?

Nope!

ADX has disappeared and been gone for about a month and JohnEric is definitely critical these days.
The frustration with the base is real!