104 replies to this topic

[mebby]

Until HB deal with the simplistic tee to green gameplay and introduce a more varied and realistic style of play then I can't see me returning to TGC. With AK's 'one size for all/no levels' policy, HB are severely restricted in what they can do and so we will have to wait for a new game release to see any major improvements. They can't be added as updates to TGC as they would cause uproar with players that are happy with the way it is now. I think this policy has been instrumental in curtailing gameplay development since day 1 and will continue to be so for the life of the game. It is why the main focus for improvement has always been with the excellent course designer.... the problem for me is that the gameplay eventually felt stale and repetitive and I had no desire to play unrealistic courses to combat this. Without interesting gameplay there was just no reason to continue designing courses to play. I haven't even bothered checking out the improvements they made to GNCD in the last couple of updates. It's a shame because I love the designer on TGC far more than any others I've used, but what's the point when the gameplay is just not up to the same standard for me.

Agree completely.  I've made this point multiple times and even had a few public back and forth sessions with Anthony regarding this over at TGC.  People say I'm being too harsh on him but honestly, he has dug in his heels on an issue that is holding back the game and I think it simply comes down to his stubborn personal pride.  He won't go back on something he said regardless of how ridiculous it gets.

 

Most everyone over at TGC that's clamoring for change is all basically asking for the same thing - difficulty levels.  But he won't do it.  And when you press him on it he just starts patting himself on the back about all the trophies they've won.

 

So people can say I'm bashing him all the want but facts are facts.  He's openly said that he feels its his job to give people what he KNOWS they want regardless of what they THINK they want.  In other words - he's a world renowned developer and he knows whats best for everyone regardless of whether they disagree or not.  So be it.  That's just downright stubborn and arrogant.  I got bashed the last time I said it and I'll get bashed again.  But it's true.  Just look at the facts.

[Buck]

With AK's 'one size for all/no levels' policy, HB are severely restricted in what they can do and so we will have to wait for a new game release to see any major improvements.

 

Totally agree and it's really why I expect very little from the "super secret...can't let on what we're doing" announcement in 7 weeks.

 

Anything short of "we're taking a fresh look at the swing, from scratch" (i.e.  TGC 2 likely) is very unlikely to appease anyone who's currently uninterested in the robo-boring swing mechanic they have.

 

I think that the lawn darts dial a distance grid thing is somehow baked together at the lowest levels with the swing mechanic and thus they can't change too much without re-doing the swing concept from the ground up (again...TGC 2).  The main evidence of that was that their solution to making it harder to always hit straight was a mode that "auto lofted you up" on the lawn darts grid to make the shot cone narrower...

 

A hack...within a hack...basically.

[Buck]

Most everyone over at TGC that's clamoring for change is all basically asking for the same thing - difficulty levels.

 

Bingo!

 

But the problem is that Anthony knows what we want - we do not.

Sorry Mebby - What you say you want.... you do not.

 

You are wrong

[mebby]

So with all the above data points... it just FEELS an awful lot like Anthony and Co are simply stalling.  I might feel differently if he hadn't been dragging out any update news for months now but... he has.  And he's clearly not open to the idea of difficulty levels so I can't understand how any changes are going to be impactful to those of us that are looking for a more engaging and challenging experience.

[Buck]

...those of us that are looking for a more engaging and challenging experience.

 

 

Sort of funny because Anthony himself said that The Golf Club needs more challenge tee to green...

Should be interesting to see if he believes himself & takes action - or not

[Buck]

Also - why be against difficulty levels when they already went part way by trying to have an "auto lofted up...harder to hit straight" swing mechanic?

 

Exact same concept - roll with it and make a Pro mode of the game!

[mebby]

Also - why be against difficulty levels when they already went part way by trying to have an "auto lofted up...harder to hit straight" swing mechanic?

 

Exact same concept - roll with it and make a Pro mode of the game!

I never understood why this was only an option for drives.  Why not for EVERY shot?

 

But ultimately, the problem with that is that no one uses it in tournaments because it can't be forced.  So to me, it's the equivalent of entering a tournament with only a driver, pitching wedge, and putter and competing against a field that has all the clubs.  Why would you do that??

[Buck]

I never understood why this was only an option for drives.  Why not for EVERY shot?

 

But ultimately, the problem with that is that no one uses it in tournaments because it can't be forced.  So to me, it's the equivalent of entering a tournament with only a driver, pitching wedge, and putter and competing against a field that has all the clubs.  Why would you do that??

 

Yep - Same problem exists with the Flop shot too.  It's way too easy and you're forced to use it if you want to compete...

 

Right now their forum is having a long debate about it, complete with people saying "just don't use it".

 

Obviously a non starter - The correct risk/reward/execution difficulty of shots needs to be enforced by the game developers.

 

I hope they add difficulty levels - Have TGC "Classic mode" and do a complete re-think on things for a "next gen / sim" type of mode.

[MERACE]

What do you mean when you say "the future is in flux"?

Do you have a read on what they will do?

 

Hard to believe a lobby will come - Or difficulty levels...

 

Not sure how they can possibly retain the "one swing for all" while still pleasing people at all ends of the spectrum.

 

I know nothing more than what has been stated by Anthony on the forums and some of the weekly twitch broadcasts.  He said they have hired some new programmers for TGC so maybe they want them to also play the game and give their input into the future of the game.

 

Anthony is dead set against "difficulty levels" but he has said that they are looking in to making the swing more of a risk reward for the more skilled players without alienating the new and lesser skilled players.  He said they want to be "innovative" instead of just copying what has been already done in video golf games.

 

In regards to a lobby system, I would prefer they improve on their current multiplayer mode and also allow the option to play with players that are not on my friends list.

 

 

As I've stated before, I'm willing to give HBS the benefit of the doubt and wait and see what they come up with.

 

 

 

-MERACE

[mebby]

I know nothing more than what has been stated by Anthony on the forums and some of the weekly twitch broadcasts.  He said they have hired some new programmers for TGC so maybe they want them to also play the game and give their input into the future of the game.

 

Anthony is dead set against "difficulty levels" but he has said that they are looking in to making the swing more of a risk reward for the more skilled players without alienating the new and lesser skilled players.  He said they want to be "innovative" instead of just copying what has been already done in video golf games.

 

In regards to a lobby system, I would prefer they improve on their current multiplayer mode and also allow the option to play with players that are not on my friends list.

 

 

As I've stated before, I'm willing to give HBS the benefit of the doubt and wait and see what they come up with.

 

 

 

-MERACE

I'll happily wait and see what they come up with.  I'm just growing impatient with all the smoke and mirrors and waffling and this and that.

 

But if you simply reread what you wrote about what Anthony is trying to do it's kinda like trying to be upstairs and downstairs at the same time.  You might WANT to do it but it ain't happening.  The only way home from where we are now is to add difficulty options.  At least in my opinion.  I'm happy to be wrong though because I really DO want TGC to be fun again.

[DoGgs]

Out of interest i just fired up TGC and started to play a round, quit after 5 holes!  It's fair to say i won't be playing it again unless big changes are made...such a sterile experience now.

[mebby]

Out of interest i just fired up TGC and started to play a round, quit after 5 holes! It's fair to say i won't be playing it again unless big changes are made...such a sterile experience now.

Somehow I still find it enjoyable if I olaynit once a month or something. But you are right,it just gets stale and boring if you play it daily.

PG feels different every time. I think it's because of the physics engine.

In my opinion, if we could bring Rory graphics and presentation into PG we would have one hell of a game.

[Buck]

@DoGgz:  What do you think about the course design situation over there?

 

I have to be honest - I respect all the time and effort people put in, no question.  But I honestly can't help but *always* thinking the courses all look basically the same or very similar.

 

Put another way - There's really never been a TGC course I've seen in any of the thread screenshots that didn't instantly signal to me "oh, it's TGC".  Maybe just a function of the limits of their designer and how it works with themes, etc?

 

To me though, the endless courses all look and feel so similar that I find it less compelling than some people seem to.  It does seem to pair well with the swing.  Robo courses for the robo swing...

[MERACE]

Hmmm, I've never considered DoGgz's (or any of the other skilled TGC course designers) TGC course creations "Robo courses".


-MERACE

[Buck]

Hmmm, I've never considered DoGgz's (or any of the other skilled TGC course designers) TGC course creations "Robo courses".
-MERACE

I think you probably know what I meant…

The Theme building block approach just lends a certain same look/feel to all of the TGC course creations.

(Everything is also WAY too "perfect" looking to my eyes as well)

[MERACE]

HBS have recently addressed some of the "sameness" in the textures in the themes by adding several different color variations for the surfaces (fairways, rough, greens, bunkers). Also, if you look close up on the greens there are patches of discoloered grass.

I do not care for the sharp line separating the first and second cut of the rough. HBS have stated that this is something that they plan on improving.



-MERACE

[Buck]

Agree about those sharp lines.

Good to hear that's being looked at. (Looks like Mario golf)

[Buck]

Honestly none of the TGC visual stuff is going to matter to most of us here unless they look at all those physics related issues (DoGgz in Harbour Town thread today) as well as the swing challenge level.

[DoGgs]

GNCD is what i would call a great entry tool, course forge is the pinnacle, also the people over at TGC tend to be set in their ways when it comes to design, try and put green undulations in your design the way K11 did with black swan and you will get rated down big time. My favourite designer over at TGC has not released that many courses and now resides over here on PG but cannot yet get CF..take a bow wendy! creator of natural looking courses that are not created to combat the simple mechanics of TGC with tricked up areas and pins, just straight forward design done very well.  Too many get sucked in by eye candy without ever really examining the course as a layout, Ecliptic bay is a fine example of this...beautifully planted track that the designer gave much tlc too, as a golfers track it is total crap...thin fairways, no real flow to the course, 3 or 4 real long and tough par 4's in a row and some thoughtless bunker placement.  There are too many over at TGC that don't or can't look past eye candy, over here at PG people do look past the bling and amen to that.

[DoGgs]

I just paid a visit to TGC and played harbour town...i now see the fuss made about the greens, they are lazy designs.  I don't see the point in a RLC with greens like that, don't know what the designer was thinking, maybe green contouring is not his strong point...not a great recreation and a bit joyless to play, but you could say that about most courses within the mechanical structure of TGC, thats why i always tried to make my tracks fun rather than tricky, or flat.