168 replies to this topic

[frank70]

I could understand that. Still, maybe only the OGT staff can see the data and then can contact players they find suspicious and go from there. But the data and the ability is there, I'd like to see it used.

 

This would really be a good start. Everybody could read my shot data out. Everybody who agrees to this has nothing to hide imho.

 

I don't know if that can solve the controller issue. Would that mean that if you use an "always-straight" controller that you are penalized almost every shot? That would exclude certain controllers. Don't know if the community would like that.

[Sliceapottomus]

Perfect golf needs to set perameters for devices.just like the pga or usga does for real golf equipment... plain and simple..... if your device works within the allowable limits youre good to go. I am not a computer programmer so not sure how it would be done. If this cannot be done then best to let the whole shebang go and if some one uses a device that gives them an edge go out and get one your self if it bothers you that much... video and online game haves always had people cheat and take advantage of flaws just to get the best score.. News Flash not going to ever completely go away. hell I have witnessed some one hack a game and insert  a winning score before. These people are just lonley and need a hug give them their 15 min of fame and move on...

[fishwicket79]

Perfect golf needs to set perameters for devices.just like the pga or usga does for real golf equipment... plain and simple..... if your device works within the allowable limits youre good to go. I am not a computer programmer so not sure how it would be done. If this cannot be done then best to let the whole shebang go and if some one uses a device that gives them an edge go out and get one your self if it bothers you that much... video and online game haves always had people cheat and take advantage of flaws just to get the best score.. News Flash not going to ever completely go away. hell I have witnessed some one hack a game and insert a winning score before. These people are just lonley and need a hug give them their 15 min of fame and move on...

lol lonely.this is what happened in tiger woods from 08-14.and in the end everyone who played the game regularly had a straight hitting controller and it became the norm...what I find odd about this game is that it has a very small user base and the blatant cheats are easily found out and all they are doing is alienating themselves because in the end no one will play with or against them

[Crow357]

lol lonely.this is what happened in tiger woods from 08-14.and in the end everyone who played the game regularly had a straight hitting controller and it became the norm...what I find odd about this game is that it has a very small user base and the blatant cheats are easily found out and all they are doing is alienating themselves because in the end no one will play with or against them

Are you saying the only people that play this game are cheaters?

 

In TW 14 you had to make a diagonal swing.  How did you use a cheater stick for that?

[fishwicket79]

Are you saying the only people that play this game are cheaters?

In TW 14 you had to make a diagonal swing. How did you use a cheater stick for that?

what lol where have I said that?

[Crow357]

Oh, wait, the "they" in your last comment was the cheaters, my mistake.

[JTee1]

Maybe zero plane is the norm for PG, I posted this video a year ago. I believe he's using min mod settings. Notice the Zero plane consistency. See video below and I've never called anyone a cheater it's just the norm for the game i believe. Still best game ever.

 

Original thread was to figure out why anti cheat was affecting so many people. Not to blame anyone. The generic mouse was the shocker for me with built in prediction it tries to adjust your mouse movement to form a straight line. No ones fault for sure.  I've used a gaming mouse for 10 years as my primary device.

Shot 1 offset 2 Plane 0

Shot 2 offset 1 Plane 0

Shot 3 offset 0 Plane 0

Shot 4 offset 1 Plane 0

Shot 5 offset 0 Plane 0

Shot 6 offset 0 Plane 0

The only mouse i can acheive this without manipulating is my generic HP mouse.

Then he goes into fade and draw examples

https://youtu.be/uLrJ8bz4hcw

[Bahnzo]

How much has the game changed in that time though? It could be they've made the swing more sensitive since then. But just watching his mouse movements, they are very straight, even when not swinging. 

 

Not owning a "normal" mouse, how prevalent is this "built in prediction"? Is it a feature of the mouse/software, or one of the OS?

[JTee1]

How much has the game changed in that time though? It could be they've made the swing more sensitive since then. But just watching his mouse movements, they are very straight, even when not swinging. 

 

Not owning a "normal" mouse, how prevalent is this "built in prediction"? Is it a feature of the mouse/software, or one of the OS?

1. I've received similar results in present version. Look at my first post and you see the 3 different mice in freehand and using a straight edge and trying to move straight. Obvious difference. The video doesnt look as if hes trying to make a controlled movement either.  Its prevalent in the HP mouse plus a cheap sensor with 15% error. Combination of these things allow for a straight line.

Mouse prediction video

[Bahnzo]

LOL....I tried the line drawing thing in MS paint like the video shows.....here's my "straight lines" with my trackball. Easy to see why I'm never going to progress from Hacker. 

 

[crazycorey44]

Wow, and I thought us 3 clickers complained alot. NEWS FLASH: in the past 2 weeks or so we are having an issue now as well on 3 click with the meter pointer sliding on through the snap line when we click. Not sure if it from anti cheat programming causing it to speed up right before it reaches the snap line or if there is a problem elsewhere, but it is a pain in the #$% as well. Does it whether Vsync is on or off and with graphics turned way way down, but it does not do it on every swing. OK, got my 5 cents in, carry on Motion and RTS swingers.

[Greensboronclion]

Wow, and I thought us 3 clickers complained alot. NEWS FLASH: in the past 2 weeks or so we are having an issue now as well on 3 click with the meter pointer sliding on through the snap line when we click. Not sure if it from anti cheat programming causing it to speed up right before it reaches the snap line or if there is a problem elsewhere, but it is a pain in the #$% as well. Does it whether Vsync is on or off and with graphics turned way way down, but it does not do it on every swing. OK, got my 5 cents in, carry on Motion and RTS swingers.

 

That has to be a real pain in the @$$ for 3C and as a former 3C Links guy it sure would bother me.  By the way I understand we all have different swings but IMHO we are all perfect golf players and compete in the same event so we are all one big happy group.  My friend I have no ill will towards any swing and respect them all so hit them straight and hopefully they will get these little bugs fixed soon.

[JTee1]

LOL....I tried the line drawing thing in MS paint like the video shows.....here's my "straight lines" with my trackball. Easy to see why I'm never going to progress from Hacker. 

 

Bahnzo here's mine compared to yours. I definitely see i can hit straighter over the track ball. You may want to see a swing coach, just kidding. I've never tried a track ball before and I believe your right. If this is someones best swing moving up to Tour Pro would be painful.

 It's no wonder some people are amazed at how some people shoot as well as they do. My point all along. Many probably don't know if their device is helping or hurting their play. Either way is ok, its just the anti cheat was punishing people who weren't trying to gain advantage. But I think it worked correctly and affected the few who were deadening axis also. Catch 22

I got faith in PG and will continue to play as is when summer trips are over. Probably could even do better then below with some warm up in the driving range. Tempo is my arch nemesis.

[frank70]

@JTee

 

Do you see a technical solution (anti-cheat) to solve the problem without banning certain devices (mouse and controllers)?

 

Banning certain devices won't help OGT ....  i am sure.

 

I suggested to read out the shot data and make it public in a tab of the scorecard. Won't that be a good indication if the player uses a dead axis device?

 

My shots when actually playing a round have a bigger variety than on the range. On the range i normally have a 0 or 1 swing plane and are between 0-7 mishit. Should be bigger when playing a round. If everybody could see that data it could probably be a problem for cheaters.

[yesrushdt]

I've been using RTS-C for around 6 months (and playing at Tour Pro level since day one).  Learning and getting used to that difficulty level was already hard enough.  Now it looks like I'm going to have to re-learn how to play this freaking game and basically start from scratch. The anti-cheat has dramatically altered the way the game controls for me using a gamepad, even though I don't cheat.  This anti-cheat update should have been implemented on or before the release date back in May, not 3 months later when people have already gotten used to the gameplay/controls.

 

There was a news update on August 14 about the anti-cheat being removed.  Was it removed with the 1.4.1.2 update?  If so, my controls are still dramatically different and I'm not a happy camper.

[DivotMaker]

I've been using RTS-C for around 6 months (and playing at Tour Pro level since day one).  Learning and getting used to that difficulty level was already hard enough.  Now it looks like I'm going to have to re-learn how to play this freaking game and basically start from scratch. The anti-cheat has dramatically altered the way the game controls for me using a gamepad, even though I don't cheat.  This anti-cheat update should have been implemented on or before the release date back in May, not 3 months later when people have already gotten used to the gameplay/controls.

 

There was a news update on August 14 about the anti-cheat being removed.  Was it removed with the 1.4.1.2 update?  If so, my controls are still dramatically different and I'm not a happy camper.

 

Yes it was removed and it plays for me just as it did before.

[JTee1]

@JTee

 

Do you see a technical solution (anti-cheat) to solve the problem without banning certain devices (mouse and controllers)?

 

Banning certain devices won't help OGT ....  i am sure.

 

I suggested to read out the shot data and make it public in a tab of the scorecard. Won't that be a good indication if the player uses a dead axis device?

 

My shots when actually playing a round have a bigger variety than on the range. On the range i normally have a 0 or 1 swing plane and are between 0-7 mishit. Should be bigger when playing a round. If everybody could see that data it could probably be a problem for cheaters.

 

 

  I know using raw mouse data as some games can may be an option. It bypasses the window settings for your mouse. I'm not sure if there is a way of bypassing device software or detecting it to just disallow game play. Then all adjustments would have to be made in the game sensitivity windows.That would leave the generic poor sensor mouse as the device of choice to hit str8 with. I have seen where there are hot patches to turn prediction off in certain mice so they give a true raw reading also. This happened when prediction was put in some gaming mice and gamer's started to complain about it. But it helps the player in this game instead of hindering movement.

 

Yea banning will be futile in the long run.  I've played all swing types and they each present their own inherent advantage and weakness. This doesn't bother me at all, its more the devices that bring in the biggest advantages and weakness. 

 

I'm pretty sure OGT is following the stats and looking, but how do you determine cheat vs poor mouse sensor and prediction. If i had to pick a device to play with that i cant manipulate it would be my cheap HP mouse. I would most likely be banned or ostracized for zero plane. 

 

Ultimately a wii motion or kinect device like xbox has would be fun. But this would have to be its own tour, much like the simulator tours have.  I had a blast on wii remote but graphics were awful in TW.   Hitting everything str8 in TGC was what drew me to this game. It had a lot of nice features but all the ghost players hit in the same 10 ft circle. I'm sure that,s why they're developing TGC II. Boredom set in quick there.

 

[Bahnzo]

@JTee: even tho your lines are much straighter, they still have a good deal of variance. I've switched to motion swing (from RTS) and might find myself moving up to Pro at least. The problem is the timed nature of the swing....I have to be very deliberate with the trackball, which results in a slower swing, so getting it in under the 3sec mark is something I need to work on. 

 

@Frank: I do like the idea of having the data, but I think it should be available only to the OGT admins and let them handle it. There's enough garbage going on with the cheating, having everyone's data open to speculation would be a mess. But, I do also believe that's the best way to handle things, at least as far as OGT and tourneys are concerned. 

[JOHNDALY91]

Swing/shot data analysis and disclosure is the best way to expose and deal with rigged controllers, mice and methods....case closed

[mebby]

Yea.  The more I think about this idea the more I like it.  

 

All we need now is someone from PP and/or OGT to chime in to discuss if it's even possible and if it is, would they be willing to do it?