168 replies to this topic

[JTee1]

lol mouse boys love it don't they,all claim to be saints,makes me sick:) at least anyone with half a brain knows the score

Its a controller, but i have found that some mice can be dumbed down very close to this and 95% isn't much difference then a 100%

The Tempo does affect mice all the time, from what i see controllers don't have to hit the Tempo of .25, but correct me if i'm wrong. I've done that a bunch in my lifetime. 

Just another reason Handicaps could possibly be the solution. 

[Richard]

Since everyone has an opinion on this subject, let me offer mine.

 

The developers are obviously aware and working on trying to find solutions to enhancement tools (aka cheating). I suggest we leave the solution up to them since it's their game.

 

Once a solution is implemented, those that dislike the solution or feel that they have a better solution are free to 'beat the crap out of the developers using any iron desired'.

 

Continuously posting the fact that a mouse or controller can be manipulated seems senseless at this point since it's obviously a well known capability.

[JTee1]

Since everyone has an opinion on this subject, let me offer mine.

 

The developers are obviously aware and working on trying to find solutions to enhancement tools (aka cheating). I suggest we leave the solution up to them since it's their game.

 

Once a solution is implemented, those that dislike the solution or feel that they have a better solution are free to 'beat the crap out of the developers using any iron desired'.

 

Continuously posting the fact that a mouse or controller can be manipulated seems senseless at this point since it's obviously a well known capability.

Yes Richard the horse is about dead, but as you can see some feel that there is no issue with certain devices. I've tried to provide factual answers in my responses. I've only listed excellent devices by name that should allow the game to be played without built in or man made manipulation. Not the whole solution but for those who want it, It's there

Shocked i was when looking into the rumors and discovering some hard facts. And as you see in prior posts not all know or they are in denial. Open discussion is not the enemy it can educate some people and come to a conclusion. Hopefully pg will come up with the solution. I was just asked to test it out.

Some people the anti cheat hurt and some it didn't. Tried to figure out why to help is all and answering the questions that come up. No name calling or blaming on my part in this thread. Banning devices isnt the answer just to many to ban. Hopefully i helped there at least. Plus I've contributed some devices that have no prediction or acceleration built in. 

My Findings 

 All Controllers 0 plane and offset 100% of time is achievable and no Ratio needed 

Split Axis Gaming Mouse 0 path and offset 100% of time is achievable but Ratio needed 

Some Generic cheap mouse 0 path and very little offset majority of time  but Ratio needed 

Gaming mouse without split axis and no acceleration or prediction = you need to hit Ratio, offset and path these mice catch every deviation and report it.

Gladly i feel the majority of players are honest and forthright in their game play.

[FixAmer1st]

I haven't put in my thoughts yet but feel it is time.

 

The game knows what club is being used, so the first perfectly straight swing by THAT club, either caused by an adjusted mouse/controller OR by a lucky perfectly swing by a player, should be offset either left or right (randomly) by ONE degree. That club and degree offset should be saved by the game.

 

The next time that club is used and another perfectly straight swing is determined, again the swing should be offset, again randomly, but this time one degree more than the previous time, i.e. now TWO degrees.

 

These setting should be saved FOR EACH club in the bag for the complete Round.

 

For example 18 tee offs and if every one is a perfectly straight swing, on the 18th Hole the ball is offset 18 degrees.  Again randomly left or right so it is NOT able to be adjusted for in the aim since the player does not know which way the perfectly swing will be sent.

[JTee1]

I don't have the answer for sure, it's frustrating.  Just dug deeper in the closet and tested my old cheap asus mouse that ive used when my G502 was down with a loose connection. It hits remarkably str8 also. 0 plane and 1-3 offset over 50% of time on driving range. Would hate to punish those guys. Still think HC's  are the best solution. Handicaps for tournaments of -18 to +18 is fine with me if it makes all  this go away.

[frank70]

I don't have the answer for sure, it's frustrating.  Just dug deeper in the closet and tested my old cheap asus mouse that ive used when my G502 was down with a loose connection. It hits remarkably str8 also. 0 plane and 1-3 offset over 50% of time on driving range. Would hate to punish those guys. Still think HC's  are the best solution. Handicaps for tournaments of -18 to +18 is fine with me if it makes all  this go away.

I really would not like that. Scratch golf has to have a place in the game.

 

The anti-cheat wasn't that far off, was it? Maybe the devs can come up with something that works.

 

The game can read the variables of the swing already (on the range we see it too). If the shot is absolutely perfect it should result in a wayward shot the second time it happens in a row. And from there randomly through the round. And it should be penalized hard - 30% short and way left or right. If that would happen to cheaters 4-6 times a round you could see it by their scores. OB or shots in the water could happen for instance.

 

If i ever manage to hit two absolutely straight shots in a row (straight plane, 0.25 ratio, 100% power and 0 mishit) .... i could live with being penalized although i haven't cheated. But the chances for that are maybe 1:500).

 

I would propose that the data of all shots can be seen by every competitor at OGT (like stats on a additional tab of the scorecard). Then we could easily see, which players have no variance in their shots.

 

@JTee: Handicaps won't help the fact that there would still be cheaters in a tournament.

[mebby]

I really would not like that. Scratch golf has to have a place in the game.

 

The anti-cheat wasn't that far off, was it? Maybe the devs can come up with something that works.

 

The game can read the variables of the swing already (on the range we see it too). If the shot is absolutely perfect it should result in a wayward shot the second time it happens in a row. And from there randomly through the round. And it should be penalized hard - 30% short and way left or right. If that would happen to cheaters 4-6 times a round you could see it by their scores. OB or shots in the water could happen for instance.

 

If i ever manage to hit two absolutely straight shots in a row (straight plane, 0.25 ratio, 100% power and 0 mishit) .... i could live with being penalized although i haven't cheated. But the chances for that are maybe 1:500).

 

I would propose that the data of all shots can be seen by every competitor at OGT (like stats on a additional tab of the scorecard). Then we could easily see, which players have no variance in their shots.

 

@JTee: Handicaps won't help the fact that there would still be cheaters in a tournament.

All good ideas and thoughts Frank.  But I don't think it's as simple as showing the stats (power, plane information, etc) of every single shot per player.  Sure there will be obvious cases where it's very clear that something is up - like seeing someone hit a large majority of their shots perfectly on plane.  But where do you draw the line?  What if someone consistently hits +/-1% or +/-2%?  Where is the line that denotes someone is cheating?

All I have in my house are standard DS4 and XB1 controllers.  If I go to the range and log my stats with each controller that I own it's clear to me that I play better with one particular controller.  I have 2 DS4 controllers and 1 XB1 controller.  I can hit the ball pretty straight most of the time one of my DS4's and the other one gives me more of a challenge.  The XB1 controller is roughly on par with my second DS4.  They are all stock controllers but I can certainly play better with one of them.  So is it cheating if I chose to play with the controller that I happen to hit the ball straighter with?  For now I've forced myself to use the XB1 controller because it makes the game slightly more challenging for me.  But that's a personal choice and I would hate to think that someone would say I'm cheating if I chose to play with the straighter DS4.

 

The same can obviously be said of using a mouse as JTee has pointed out.

 

I just think it becomes very difficult to determine who is cheating and who isn't.  I even hesitate to use the word "cheating" here because I think that's the hardest part about it.  You have to define what it means to cheat.

 

I'm just not sure there's a great solution.  So I simply play the game and have fun and try not to worry about who's cheating.  It's just not worth worrying about in my book.

[Mike Jones]

To paraphrase the late, great Bill Shankly -

 

"Golf games are not a matter of life and death........ they are much more important than that!"

[Affo]

Surely just play your game and try to do best you can. If you don't like the suspicion that someone maybe cheating, don't play Tournaments, just play with friends online or the career mode when it arrives or against the AI (can he cheat?).

 

If you need to cheat to gain satisfaction of winning, that's a sad state of affairs and if you don't win when cheating you are a muppet!

 

Pretty sure on OGT at TP level there is no-one cheating, but I just look at the scores to beat and try to do just that and don't worry about it.

 

My thoughts neatly bundled up into a few lines

[Acrilix]

just play with friends online or the career mode when it arrives or against the AI (can he cheat?).

 

The AI cheat all the time! They can play 100% power from any lie. 

[frank70]

All good ideas and thoughts Frank. But I don't think it's as simple as showing the stats (power, plane information, etc) of every single shot per player. Sure there will be obvious cases where it's very clear that something is up - like seeing someone hit a large majority of their shots perfectly on plane. But where do you draw the line? What if someone consistently hits +/-1% or +/-2%? Where is the line that denotes someone is cheating?
All I have in my house are standard DS4 and XB1 controllers. If I go to the range and log my stats with each controller that I own it's clear to me that I play better with one particular controller. I have 2 DS4 controllers and 1 XB1 controller. I can hit the ball pretty straight most of the time one of my DS4's and the other one gives me more of a challenge. The XB1 controller is roughly on par with my second DS4. They are all stock controllers but I can certainly play better with one of them. So is it cheating if I chose to play with the controller that I happen to hit the ball straighter with? For now I've forced myself to use the XB1 controller because it makes the game slightly more challenging for me. But that's a personal choice and I would hate to think that someone would say I'm cheating if I chose to play with the straighter DS4.

The same can obviously be said of using a mouse as JTee has pointed out.

I just think it becomes very difficult to determine who is cheating and who isn't. I even hesitate to use the word "cheating" here because I think that's the hardest part about it. You have to define what it means to cheat.

I'm just not sure there's a great solution. So I simply play the game and have fun and try not to worry about who's cheating. It's just not worth worrying about in my book.

The devs tried to come up with something .... that means they see a problem as well. To think about a solution doesn't mean not enjoying the game - i do enjoy it a lot.

JTee informed me that my mouse has a high sensitivity but has the option to seperate the x and y axis. I didn't even know that and certainly won't use it. And i would support every software that makes everything going on transparent. I have nothing to hide ... as most of the players. Transparency could be one step.

[Tigers Agent]

I applaud all of the virtuous members in this community.  I use a Razor Taipan mouse that's set at 6200 DPI. works great for 3 clicking.

I just want it on record that I'm not a cheater.  just so you all know... I'm not a cheater because I say so. trust me.

[mebby]

The devs tried to come up with something .... that means they see a problem as well. To think about a solution doesn't mean not enjoying the game - i do enjoy it a lot.

JTee informed me that my mouse has a high sensitivity but has the option to seperate the x and y axis. I didn't even know that and certainly won't use it. And i would support every software that makes everything going on transparent. I have nothing to hide ... as most of the players. Transparency could be one step.

You and I agree.  That's not the issue.  My concern is what would be done with the data.  I suppose I'd have to see lots of data before being able to opine on how best to use it but my point is simply that if you develop rules based on data points then there has to be a hard line drawn in the sand.  Deciding where to draw that line would likely come under intense scrutiny.

[Bahnzo]

Penalizing a perfect shot isn't the right way to go imho. 

But if you can do it two times in a row, or three times? Yes, then send it in the weeds because bare hand to replicate a perfect shot (straight swing plane, 0.25 ratio and 0 mishit heel/toe) is almost impossible to do.

All in all a good anti-cheat is quite difficult to do. But penalizing good shots isn't the right way to go.

 

The 2.0 anti-cheat was counting how many perfect shots you hit and would kick in after that for a few shots. ie: even if you didn't hit a perfect shot numerous times in a row, it was keeping track....which worked well IMO. 

 

And you are right, penalizing the odd perfect shot would be a poor decision. But if that perfect shot is something that is happening with any regularity.......then you flag it and penalize. 

[Mulligan]

I haven't put in my thoughts yet but feel it is time.

 

The game knows what club is being used, so the first perfectly straight swing by THAT club, either caused by an adjusted mouse/controller OR by a lucky perfectly swing by a player, should be offset either left or right (randomly) by ONE degree. That club and degree offset should be saved by the game.

 

The next time that club is used and another perfectly straight swing is determined, again the swing should be offset, again randomly, but this time one degree more than the previous time, i.e. now TWO degrees.

 

These setting should be saved FOR EACH club in the bag for the complete Round.

 

For example 18 tee offs and if every one is a perfectly straight swing, on the 18th Hole the ball is offset 18 degrees.  Again randomly left or right so it is NOT able to be adjusted for in the aim since the player does not know which way the perfectly swing will be sent.

 

What will we call this game?

 

"Golf" is already taken.

[jeffield]

Ha. I guess i dont have any comment as i could never tell the difference using rts-m . I horrible with or without the cheat. on pro without the pinpoint camera. 78-96 on member tees. But it sure is a fun challemge. And, that makes it good to me.

[Bahnzo]

 

I would propose that the data of all shots can be seen by every competitor at OGT (like stats on a additional tab of the scorecard). Then we could easily see, which players have no variance in their shots.

I was wondering if the API they use allows this. The ability certainly exists in the game, it's just a matter of if it's being reported. I'd completely endorse this idea. 

[Ted_Ball]

Gees if you are all so keen to find cheats why not have the readout for each shot displayed on-screen. If it's 0.00 it's a straighty. If it's two 0.00s in a row then it's getting dodgy. Three 0.00s and it's a walk off.  Fool me once and fool me..no..Fool me once, ummm.......never mind.

[JTee1]

I was wondering if the API they use allows this. The ability certainly exists in the game, it's just a matter of if it's being reported. I'd completely endorse this idea. 

Only issue i see is some players who are using their stock mouse such as my HP might get branded as cheaters and they are really the innocent ones. How many mice are as loose as the HP and Asus i don't know.  I'm sure I shot better when i used my Asus when my G502 was having intermittent issues over several months.  It would play good then it wouldn't respond in middle swing so i would plug my asus in and finish game.  I never really took it to the driving range at all to see my shot stats. I think i shot worse with the Ratio because it was a different dpi but probably hit  on plane more often. If i would have practiced on that DPI I could have probably hit the tempo better. That's why I'm careful to not accuse anyone. 

Still the best golf game out there. Love RTMS and motion swing and all the factors built into it. Ratio, path and offset, It's genious.  I three clicked for 10 year in links it just puts me on edge trying to hit the snap anymore.  I play a little more relaxed in RTSM and MS is all

I guess i just hoped the anti cheat would have worked. I got faith in them though.

[Bahnzo]

Only issue i see is some players who are using their stock mouse such as my HP might get branded as cheaters and they are really the innocent ones. 

I could understand that. Still, maybe only the OGT staff can see the data and then can contact players they find suspicious and go from there. But the data and the ability is there, I'd like to see it used. 

 

It really is the best golf game I've ever played. PGA2000 was the first one I ever felt was realistic, but PG's addition of the tempo really does make it tops in my book. I've resigned myself that I can't move past Hacker in RTSM, my trackball mouse makes the swing too difficult, but it's still the most realistic computer golf I've ever played.