316 replies to this topic

[Harvester]

You'll never totally match stats for any game to real life.

 

For one thing, your trick knee isn't going to inflict enough pain to make your eyes cross in the middle of a swing in pg as it does in real life.  I could go on and on but in the end you are just moving your hand around in pg.  It'll never be the same as real life.  

IMHO, it's more important to make sure to balance out all the various situations you can find yourself in.  If you really have to concentrate to hit the fairway and to make a decent approach shot then suddenly you're phil mickelson hitting out of a nasty sand trap then that's a problem.  

[mebby]

You'll never totally match stats for any game to real life.

 

For one thing, your trick knee isn't going to inflict enough pain to make your eyes cross in the middle of a swing in pg as it does in real life.  I could go on and on but in the end you are just moving your hand around in pg.  It'll never be the same as real life.  

IMHO, it's more important to make sure to balance out all the various situations you can find yourself in.  If you really have to concentrate to hit the fairway and to make a decent approach shot then suddenly you're phil mickelson hitting out of a nasty sand trap then that's a problem.  

While I COMPLETELY agree with what you've said here I think when the stats indicate that people are able to execute certain shots with a consistently high level of precision then one would think that that particular area of the game COULD be tightened up a little.

 

It's not the absolute score that Frank is talking about. He's pointing out the individual areas that could be tightened up a little.

 

On the flip side - I do completely understand and agree that it's not wise to make the game SO hard that it start running people off.  And even though we have difficulty levels we don't have to make it so that only 5 people will enjoy playing on TP either.  So there's absolutely a balancing act that the devs must do. 

 

I think they could put an end to all of this by commenting on their intentions based on feedback.  Otherwise the same issues will just keep getting repeated over and over.

[frank70]

Come on Frank... it was my best round thus far on OGT. You usually win and it wasn't but a week ago that you had a better score than that! I had a few very fortunate shots that to be honest I thought would be horrible, however the wind came into full effect and somehow turned them into excellent shots. Also take into effect that I have been playing this game since it first came out so the short game is fairly easy for me.

I play quite a bit online with perfect strangers that have been playing a minimal amount of time and on the Beginner level that are horrible... so I think experience and time generally makes better players. BTW, I rarely have a perfect snap but for some reason I was getting very close to the snap line for this week's tourney. Most likely because it was an official PP course and the stuttering is not as apparent vs a lot of the user made courses. Those FIR's and GIR's are pretty much the norm for me as well.

Great tournament Supster!! You deserved every bit of it. I hope you can stay on top of the leaderboard.

My argument is, that we all are shooting too low. It's more or less a birdie hunt out there. It's just not feeling like real golf anymore. And i just that was the goal for the game: Perfect Golf. A simulation.

I mean 80 putts for 72 holes? How can this be called a simulation?

A forum is the place for personal opinions. My opinion is that isn't going in the right direction. The scores get lower and lower. And you made a great point: they get loser because we all are getting better with experience.

I don't like the inbalance. The long game is statistically spot on for RTS-M and 3-click. And the short game is wayyyy off. Is that really on purpose. I almost cannot believe that.

Still a great game. I appreciate everything what was accomplished that far. Criticyzing certain elements doesn't mean that i doesn't really like the game.

[DivotMaker]

Lets face it we are not going to get scores like they have on the PGA tour in a video game.  The only thing holding scores down are the green speeds and even that isn't stopping it as the only Stimp it seems we have had this week is 14 and I know of no PGA event other than maybe the Masters and US Open that have those stimps all week long.  Right now we are setting courses up to keep the best players down and only the hacks like myself are not taking advantage of it anymore.  I could do it with 3C and MS but am sticking with RTSM even tho I just cant judge the distance of the putt but I will figure it out sooner or later.  My point is if you take away the fast greens the scores will be even lower but it sure would be a lot more fun than playing Master greens every round but hey that's just me.

 

Gonna disagree there Greens....Tiger 2000 for PC which only had 3-click was producing PGA TOUR scores all day, every day. Had to sweat every drive, approach shot, pitch, chip, and putt with the best 3-click meter I have ever seen or played.....

 

It CAN be done, but can it be done across 4-5 different swings? That remains to be seen....

[Greensboronclion]

Completely agree on removing BLI and Grids!  I hope we get this capability soon.  On the NAP tour we're getting fairly realistic scores/stats by simply removing Grids and BLI.  This is based on the honor system because that's all we've got but I believe most (if not all) people are genuinely following the rules.

 

 

Mebby this has been discussed to death about removing the Grid and BLI but forget it I would bet my weekly paycheck that will never happen on the whole level as 75% of those who play now would quit.  Make a tour for it and those who want that have at it but the masses will never buy into that and I am with the masses.  I will throw another tidbit out there and that is how many people really want a true simulation of Pro Golf?  Think about it before you answer and by the way I am of the opinion that if you want real golf go play real golf and treat your video games as just that a fun game to play but not the real thing.  The closest simulation of a sporting event in a video game I have ever seen and played is The Show Baseball game as the stats are almost to a tee of the real thing and this golf game is the closest I have ever saw in a video golf game.

[DivotMaker]

You'll never totally match stats for any game to real life.

 

For one thing, your trick knee isn't going to inflict enough pain to make your eyes cross in the middle of a swing in pg as it does in real life.  I could go on and on but in the end you are just moving your hand around in pg.  It'll never be the same as real life.  

IMHO, it's more important to make sure to balance out all the various situations you can find yourself in.  If you really have to concentrate to hit the fairway and to make a decent approach shot then suddenly you're phil mickelson hitting out of a nasty sand trap then that's a problem.  

 

Not sure I agree....see my post above.....I LOVE having to sweat making a good shot in a Golf video game....why play it otherwise? meaningless pars and birdies get boring quickly if there is no challenge....

[Harvester]

Not sure I agree....see my post above.....I LOVE having to sweat making a good shot in a Golf video game....why play it otherwise? meaningless pars and birdies get boring quickly if there is no challenge....

Sry, I may not have been clear ....  I think the short game is to easy compared to the rest of the game.  

[DivotMaker]

Great tournament Supster!! You deserved every bit of it. I hope you can stay on top of the leaderboard.

My argument is, that we all are shooting too low. It's more or less a birdie hunt out there. It's just not feeling like real golf anymore. And i just that was the goal for the game: Perfect Golf. A simulation.

I mean 80 putts for 72 holes? How can this be called a simulation?

A forum is the place for personal opinions. My opinion is that isn't going in the right direction. The scores get lower and lower. And you made a great point: they get loser because we all are getting better with experience.

I don't like the inbalance. The long game is statistically spot on for RTS-M and 3-click. And the short game is wayyyy off. Is that really on purpose. I almost cannot believe that.

Still a great game. I appreciate everything what was accomplished that far. Criticyzing certain elements doesn't mean that i doesn't really like the game.

 

Concur with congrats to Supster!

[DivotMaker]

Sry, I may not have been clear ....  I think the short game is to easy compared to the rest of the game.  

 

No argument.....

[frank70]

Mebby this has been discussed to death about removing the Grid and BLI but forget it I would bet my weekly paycheck that will never happen on the whole level as 75% of those who play now would quit. Make a tour for it and those who want that have at it but the masses will never buy into that and I am with the masses. I will throw another tidbit out there and that is how many people really want a true simulation of Pro Golf? Think about it before you answer and by the way I am of the opinion that if you want real golf go play real golf and treat your video games as just that a fun game to play but not the real thing. The closest simulation of a sporting event in a video game I have ever seen and played is The Show Baseball game as the stats are almost to a tee of the real thing and this golf game is the closest I have ever saw in a video golf game.

I would like to simulate playing like a Tour Professional. If we tee it up at Sawgrass i would like to have the same thought process like Jason Day or Jordan Spieth when playing the course. Do i go for a certain shot... or do i play it a little safe cause i want to avoid putting me in an awkward position and risk bogey? I will not attack every flag, because it isn't the smart thing to do. I want to feel satisfaction when i make a 10-15-footer, it shouldn't drop 2 out of 3 times. I want to leave the course after a 66 with the knowledge that i gained strokes on the field with a great round.

And i don't want to be able ..... to shoot -40.

That for me would be a perfect simulation. The argument that it cannot be done doesn't convince me. The short game could easily be tightened up.

If the devs have a different vision, so be it.

[frank70]

Concur with congrats to Supster!

Congrats for the RTS win as well!

-41 should be -21. But other than that .... great shooting Divotmaker !!!

[DivotMaker]

I would like to simulate playing like a Tour Professional. If we tee it up at Sawgrass i would like to have the same thought process like Jason Day or Jordan Spieth when playing the course. Do i go for a certain shot... or do i play it a little safe cause i want to avoid putting me in an awkward position and risk bogey? I will not attack every flag, because it isn't the smart thing to do. I want to feel satisfaction when i make a 10-15-footer, it shouldn't drop 2 out of 3 times. I want to leave the course after a 66 with the knowledge that i gained strokes on the field with a great round.

And i don't want to be able ..... to shoot -40.

That for me would be a perfect simulation. The argument that it cannot be done doesn't convince me. The short game could easily be tightened up.

If the devs have a different vision, so be it.

 

Agreed....I have a similar dream.....

[DivotMaker]

Congrats for the RTS win as well!

-41 should be -21. But other than that .... great shooting Divotmaker !!!

 

Thanks...had some fortunate bounces go my way this week......I'll take a win on any Tour these days!

[Greensboronclion]

I would like to simulate playing like a Tour Professional. If we tee it up at Sawgrass i would like to have the same thought process like Jason Day or Jordan Spieth when playing the course. Do i go for a certain shot... or do i play it a little safe cause i want to avoid putting me in an awkward position and risk bogey? I will not attack every flag, because it isn't the smart thing to do. I want to feel satisfaction when i make a 10-15-footer, it shouldn't drop 2 out of 3 times. I want to leave the course after a 66 with the knowledge that i gained strokes on the field with a great round.

And i don't want to be able ..... to shoot -40.

That for me would be a perfect simulation. The argument that it cannot be done doesn't convince me. The short game could easily be tightened up.

If the devs have a different vision, so be it.

 

 

Frank I hear you and the others and I really wish they could but its going to be tough as video games always get mastered its just the nature of the beast.  I think the NAP is a start and yes they could tighten up the short game but in the end how many would play that way as to make the game work it has to be sold to the masses and most wont play that way.  I would like to see another level and maybe call it the the Masters level and everything off and see how it goes with a tougher short game.  Now its not for me but there would be some of you that would play it and why not.  As for me my RTSM skills are really at Amateur level right now and I will play that way till I can win three events which might take me the rest of my life.  lol

[frank70]

I think a lot of guys would appreciate the challenge. We don't need another level for that.

After all playing in an online tournament is all about trying to finish as good as you can. I don't believe that the majority get a great satisfaction of shooting -10 per round.

If we all would need 16 putts more per round and the scrambling would be harder the leaderboards would still be close together. This wouldn't harm the healthy competition at all.

Most of us are foremost golf fans. Wouldn't it be great to play more like golf on the PC than a video game of golf.

[Sup?]

Thanks Frank and Divot, although there are a couple sharp-shots lurking that haven't completed their rounds yet.  Frank, I totally agree with the scoring being more realistic.  I would much rather see scores like -17 or even lower winning on a weekly basis.  Divot mentioned TW 2000, and although I played it, I honestly can't remember it.  Played the heck out of TW 2007 and Links 2k3 as well.

[mebby]

Mebby this has been discussed to death about removing the Grid and BLI but forget it I would bet my weekly paycheck that will never happen on the whole level as 75% of those who play now would quit.  Make a tour for it and those who want that have at it but the masses will never buy into that and I am with the masses.  I will throw another tidbit out there and that is how many people really want a true simulation of Pro Golf?  Think about it before you answer and by the way I am of the opinion that if you want real golf go play real golf and treat your video games as just that a fun game to play but not the real thing.  The closest simulation of a sporting event in a video game I have ever seen and played is The Show Baseball game as the stats are almost to a tee of the real thing and this golf game is the closest I have ever saw in a video golf game.

Slow your row man.  I was in no way trying to insinuate that grids and BLI should be removed for EVERYONE.  I was simply saying that I hope we get the ability to set up tournaments that automatically disable the grids and BLI.  I know that most will never want to play this way and that's perfectly fine.  

[bortimus]

It's totally possible to achieve realistic scoring.  It's already happening with a few workarounds that people are using to make the short game and putting more challenging.  The key is that the workarounds make sense in the context of a golf game, and they do.  I would argue that putting without a BLI and grid is much closer to reality than cranking up the wind/green speeds/hard firmness.  Sure, tough course setups have their place, but having more of a challenge around the greens applies to all courses on any conditions.  

 

I agree with frank70, highfade and the others regarding the play on and around the greens.  The game doesn't really play out like a round of golf when you get inside of 40 or so yards.

 

The greens and the surrounding undulations and bunkers are for the most part neutered by the short game and putting as it is now.        

[Ted_Ball]

I often read the argument that the game is too easy around the greens and I am genuinely interested in why people think that way. In my experience with RTS-M and RTS-H it doesn't seem that way at all. It seems quite realistic. The real tour golfers I watch on TV appear to be able to get the ball close most of the time. Half wedge shots land close. Chip-ins occur. Bunker shots seem to be bread and butter for those guys. Long putts drop. The pros get annoyed if these shots aren't effective. It is very similar to my JNPG game (at Pro level and with the HUD on) and better than me at times.

 

Is it because of the swing hardware people use (and I'm not trying to advocate BARE golf here) or because of the precise information the HUD, grids and BLI provide? Even with those aids I'm not god-like around the greens. I guess if someone on JNPG wants to study extensively and slide-rule all that info the stats will be much better than real life. They'd be mad not to if they are competitive types.

 

I'd like someone to identify just where and why this part of the game is considered easy. I'm not trying to stir up trouble - I'm genuinely interested. There is another stat that I don't read about much in this debate and that is the putting stats for greens in regulation compared to overall putting numbers. If GIR putting numbers are extremely low then you can also assume that the longer game is easier as well.

 

I suppose if all the variables in shot-making come down to mathematical formulae and simplicity of equipment and swing mechanics then it is inevitable that scores will be very low. Although a real Tour Pro has a lot of info in regards to each shot they will never have the precise data or the simplistic and repetitive nature of our swings. Maybe it is time to consider less info in this game. I don't think the solution is to make it harder to score well by tweaking things like putting.

 

Maybe I AM advocating BARE golf.

[jt83]

I only play single player 3C, and I sometimes shoot a good score around -7, but there's no way I'd do that at Southampton with strong winds, fast greens and hard pins.  I'd be happy with par.  If people are shooting -10 under those conditions, they're doing something extraordinary IMO.