169 replies to this topic

[Richard]

I play TGC on console, because it just doesn't run well on my computer. On the flip-side, PG has absolutely no stutter on high settings, and just a tiny bit of stutter on ultra-high. So that's a plus for me.

Comparing the two games is kind of like apples and oranges, though. There are things I like about TGC better, but PG isn't finished yet, so we'll have to wait and see. I agree with Merace about the putting in TGC. I am a clicker-at-heart . . . a throwback to the original Links game . . so I am thrilled to have a click meter in PG that, so far, I am really enjoying.

In the end, I really love TGC . . and I play it practically every day. Thus far, realizing this is early access, I am very impressed with PG. That being said, I am really hoping that the ball physics will be worked on. The ball physics (and animation for that matter) just seem a bit off for me. But again, it's just early access . . and I am pleased with what I have seen thus far.

 

I continue to be at a loss of why so many, in this topic and a number of others constantly measure one game against another. Each game is different with a separate set of developers and objectives. This constant 'mine is bigger than yours, comparison is absolutely ridiculous and I really wish that it would stop. (I know, good luck on that!!)

 

If you want to point out an 'attribute' of another game as a means of explaining a recommendation for a new PG feature, fine. That to me is warranted and will probably help the developers understand better. I'm sure that the PG developers are very aware of the various games currently available on the market.

[IanK]

With all due respect, I'll never understand why people think that pushing a one inch stick backward and forward a half an inch is somehow mimicking a "real golf swing" anymore than clicking your mouse three times. But to each his own.

And lovers of the 3c method always say that. I know a controller swing is nothing like a real golf swing but at least your physical input has some relationship to what is happening on screen, especially if PP create a swing similar to the old PGA 2000 method.

Ian

[MERACE]

I pretty much abandoned clicking when PGA Championship Golf 2000 introduced TrueSwing in the game over 10 years ago.  While neither clicking or moving a mouse accurately simulates a golf swing IRL, I do feel that moving the mouse and/or controller stick gives me at least some sense of the feel of a golf swing.

 

As for explaining why I like the putting so much in TGC, it just seems to give me a smooth and intuitive feel when using my PS4 controller. 

 

 

-MERACE

[IanK]

I continue to be at a loss of why so many, in this topic and a number of others constantly measure one game against another. Each game is different with a separate set of developers and objectives. This constant 'mine is bigger than yours, comparison is absolutely ridiculous and I really wish that it would stop. (I know, good luck on that!!)
 
If you want to point out an 'attribute' of another game as a means of explaining a recommendation for a new PG feature, fine. That to me is warranted and will probably help the developers understand better. I'm sure that the PG developers are very aware of the various games currently available on the market.

That's fair enough but some people are making comments about games that they haven't tried. You can't be objective in your criticism of a game just by seeing a picture of it. That goes for PG and TGC.
I like both games, and both have good and bad points. For me, designing on TGC is quite a relaxed affair and gives very reasonable results.
I'm sure that Course Forge and Terrain Forge will give superior renditions of real golf courses but might not be for the more casual user.

[JCat04]

With all due respect, I'll never understand why people think that pushing  a one inch stick backward and forward a half an inch is somehow mimicking a "real golf swing" anymore than clicking your mouse three times.  But to each his own.

 

I think the old bromide - 'if I have to explain it, you probably wouldn't understand it' works best here.  I'll take a stab at it though.  I've played computer/video golf since Mean 18 on the Amiga computer in 1984.  I've used 3-click, trueswing, powerstroke, Move motion controller, Kinect motion controller and naturally, thumbstick controllers to control the action.  All of those methods with the exception of the 3-click require a continuous, analog manipulation on the part of the player.

 

With the click method, I feel (and others will feel differently, I'm sure) that I'm only involved in a tactile sense with the swing at three, distinctive points in time: the start of the swing, the setting of power in the backswing, and the snap at the bottom.   I won't argue that 3-click isn't or can't be challenging, because it's both.  When it's all over though, I don't feel like I have been as integrated with the swing as I am when using a motion swing, even one as small as the radius of a 1 to 1 1/4" thumbstick.  A good developer can make that movement radius go a looooong way if it's properly scaled.

[Kelson64]

I pretty much abandoned clicking when PGA Championship Golf 2000 introduced TrueSwing in the game over 10 years ago.  While neither clicking or moving a mouse accurately simulates a golf swing IRL, I do feel that moving the mouse and/or controller stick gives me at least some sense of the feel of a golf swing.

I was the same way. Unfortunately, I was in a car accident and sufffered a seperated shoulder. Since then, when I used TruSwing or anything similar, it flares up horribly. So, to be clear, I love using the mouse swing, but I just can't physically do it. (Note: Horizontal swing does not bother me. Only vertical)

[IanK]

Regarding the putting on PG, I don't quite get it I'm afraid. When I say 'get it' I mean the fact that you don't have to adjust the length/power of the swing for the length of the putt.
As far as I can see you hit the ball slightly harder for an uphill putt then you do for a downhill putt allowing for any break. It just seem so simplistic (and easy), or am I missing something?
On TGC you swing the avatar's club as you would in real life to achieve the power required. In PG this seems to be done for you.

[Richard]

Regarding the putting on PG, I don't quite get it I'm afraid. When I say 'get it' I mean the fact that you don't have to adjust the length/power of the swing for the length of the putt.
As far as I can see you hit the ball slightly harder for an uphill putt then you do for a downhill putt allowing for any break. It just seem so simplistic (and easy), or am I missing something?
On TGC you swing the avatar's club as you would in real life to achieve the power required. In PG this seems to be done for you.

 

I agree with your assessment. During 'alpha' testing, putting was one of the main topics of controversy and discussion. I've read all of Mike's explanations on how it currently works and believe that I fully understand them. I just don't prefer them to having to determine, for myself, how much power I need for the full length, rather than just the increment that compensates for uphill and downhill. To me, it's almost like another aid that maybe should be available for the less skilled player, but not the 'hardcore' player.

 

Knowing that the putting mechanics changed a couple of times during testing, I highly suspect that we will see additional changes before everything is said and done. How those changes will manifest themselves, I don't know. But given the willingness of the developers to listen to the community makes me think that changes will occur.

[IanK]

Th

I agree with your assessment. During 'alpha' testing, putting was one of the main topics of controversy and discussion. I've read all of Mike's explanations on how it currently works and believe that I fully understand them. I just don't prefer them to having to determine, for myself, how much power I need for the full length, rather than just the increment that compensates for uphill and downhill. To me, it's almost like another aid that maybe should be available for the less skilled player, but not the 'hardcore' player.
 
Knowing that the putting mechanics changed a couple of times during testing, I highly suspect that we will see additional changes before everything is said and done. How those changes will manifest themselves, I don't know. But given the willingness of the developers to listen to the community makes me think that changes will occur.

Thanks Richard, I thought I was missing something. :-)
If PP could introduce putting mechanics similar to those used on TGC I would be very happy.

[Sinewiz]

Regarding the putting on PG, I don't quite get it I'm afraid. When I say 'get it' I mean the fact that you don't have to adjust the length/power of the swing for the length of the putt.
As far as I can see you hit the ball slightly harder for an uphill putt then you do for a downhill putt allowing for any break. It just seem so simplistic (and easy), or am I missing something?
On TGC you swing the avatar's club as you would in real life to achieve the power required. In PG this seems to be done for you.

Couldn't agree more. There is absolutly nothing wrong with the mechanic itself and "making putts" is realistically challenging regardless of length. The problem in my eyes is that an 80 footer is only fractionally more difficult to two putt than a 15 footer is. Can't believe I'm saying this but I wish I could three putt a little more often.

[theclubpro]

i say make the putting like the other swings, no flag on the swing arc,say a max distance you could putt like the other clubs and we have to make our best guess as to the amount of power to give.make the current model as a beginner mode and the 1 i just mentioned as the better player mode.but please get the grid breaking correct as i cant for the life of me tell how much its going to break, ive had straight putts break and breaking putts go straight.And a transparent golfer would be nice if could be feasible when putting. 

[Mike Jones]

The green grid is correct however the spacing of 2 metres only gives the average slope over well....2 metres, you can make the grid smaller by typing gr_cellwidth 1 in the console until we put the option in the GUI.

[nightowl]

Just a question about PG graphics.  The PG environment seems kind of dark.  Has consideration been given to increasing the light a notch?  Just a notch would probably make a big difference.  Just curious.

[Mike Jones]

We have a brightness setting in the options but we can't turn up the in game dynamic or ambient any further as its will wash out all the lighter colours in fact sometimes at noon with bloom on it does just that.

 

Try playing at different times of day or try turning the dynamic sky off.

[Sinewiz]

I think the old bromide - 'if I have to explain it, you probably wouldn't understand it' works best here.  I'll take a stab at it though.  I've played computer/video golf since Mean 18 on the Amiga computer in 1984.  I've used 3-click, trueswing, powerstroke, Move motion controller, Kinect motion controller and naturally, thumbstick controllers to control the action.  All of those methods with the exception of the 3-click require a continuous, analog manipulation on the part of the player.

 

With the click method, I feel (and others will feel differently, I'm sure) that I'm only involved in a tactile sense with the swing at three, distinctive points in time: the start of the swing, the setting of power in the backswing, and the snap at the bottom.   I won't argue that 3-click isn't or can't be challenging, because it's both.  When it's all over though, I don't feel like I have been as integrated with the swing as I am when using a motion swing, even one as small as the radius of a 1 to 1 1/4" thumbstick.  A good developer can make that movement radius go a looooong way if it's properly scaled.

I'll give you one thing. I don't believe I've ever been insulted more politely. 

 

You might be surprised to know that I've played virtually every PC golf game that's ever hit the market over the last 25 years as well. And during that time I've used motion controllers, thumbsticks and basically every other conceivable way there is to hit a golf shot on the PC. Yet still, as difficult as it for some people to grasp not all of us feel like we're swinging a golf club any doing these type of these things than twitching are finger three times. 

[dedBuNNy]

I only played TCG for a bit... I lost interest pretty fast. I like putting here, I'm just waiting til the avatar is tied in, until then it just is what it is. All I know is that just like on a real green nothing will get 'that look' directed at you faster than leaving a put a foot short. I always try and hit the line as a min don't care if it's a downhill lie . Rather be two feet past the a foot short. 

[JCat04]

I'll give you one thing. I don't believe I've ever been insulted more politely. 

 

You might be surprised to know that I've played virtually every PC golf game that's ever hit the market over the last 25 years as well. And during that time I've used motion controllers, thumbsticks and basically every other conceivable way there is to hit a golf shot on the PC. Yet still, as difficult as it for some people to grasp not all of us feel like we're swinging a golf club any doing these type of these things than twitching are finger three times. 

 

LOL...  that saying is on a patch that I saw a Harley-Davidson owner wearing and I thought it fit here.  It didn't dawn on me that it might be insulting; I was trying to illustrate how difficult it is to explain this.  You just illustrated why with your response, which I can appreciate.  
It's such a subjective issue that it can't be quantified or qualified.  I do want to clarify one thing that denizens of the 3-click camp throw back at thumbstick swingers, 'it doesn't feel like we're swinging a golf club'.  Well, you're right - it doesn't; however, it feels significantly more analogous to a golf swing than clicking a button three times... at least to those of us who are enthralled with it.  Obviously, not everyone is going to make that association, as you haven't, and that's why we should have a swing interface that appeases both camps.  I don't hate 3-clicking... it's how I'm playing PG right now, but, it's like it's something I have to do if I want to experience the rest of the game rather than something I relish and the rest of the game flows around it. 

 

The closest thing I've experienced to swinging a golf club in a video game was Tiger Wood PGA Tour 13, on my PS3, with a Move controller attached to a SimStix golf club accessory.  By the time I put the proper amount of lead tape on the short shaft of the SimStix (to which the Move is attached), with the authentic golf grip it had... the whole assembly felt like a golf club when I swung it.  I got semi-believable results, but the swing felt great.  With more work - and probably considerably more work, I think it could be a whole lot better.  The game behind just didn't compel me to stay with it, but every time I felt the need to really swing, I'd suffer the lackluster gameplay just to be reminded of what might be possible.

[IanK]

I've only got one thumb and no fingers, so a controller swing is essential for me. ;-)

[J.H.Buchanan]

I'll give you one thing. I don't believe I've ever been insulted more politely. 

 

You might be surprised to know that I've played virtually every PC golf game that's ever hit the market over the last 25 years as well. And during that time I've used motion controllers, thumbsticks and basically every other conceivable way there is to hit a golf shot on the PC. Yet still, as difficult as it for some people to grasp not all of us feel like we're swinging a golf club any doing these type of these things than twitching are finger three times. 

So Uh do you actually think Perfect Golf is better than Jack Nicklaus Golf Game 

 

[Sinewiz]

Ahhh yes, the memories. At the time I didn't think it could get any better. Once Jack Nicklaus came out with it's course creator I thought I had died and gone to heaven. I used to download courses off a "bulletin board service" in California from my home in Michigan. If memory serves me correct I think it used to cost me 3 or 4 dollars in transfer time to pick myself up a new course. Seems so silly now, but at the time it was a big deal to be able to trade courses with each other and religiously each and every Friday night I would pick myself up a couple.   Youngsters simply wouldn't be able to relate.