468 replies to this topic

[mebby]

Hi all,
 
None of the solutions or arguments about multiplayer solve the two  main issues with live multiplayer. The impatience and intolerance of the average player. I know there are some out there that are patient and tolerant and most of them prefer to lock out the complainers and impatient players or like to play among like minded players.
 
Say what you will about TGC or TGC2 but they seem to have some good solutions, albeit not technically live multiplayer. I played a round last night in a society that is handicapped, which I like, and I played against the recording of the one of the other players, with full turn base on. The only thing I missed was someone answering my useless banter. With the tour clubs the game is quite enjoyable. Not as punishing as RTSH is in this game but with the Society and the ability to easily play against a recorded round it beats this game in that area by miles in my humble opinion.
 
Golf is a slow game and when you play multiplayer it gets even slower, eating up a lot of real world time. Not many have the patience for that. Put all the clocks and gimme ranges you want to speed up the game but then you will have to find a like minded player for whatever setup you demand. The issue with JNPG right now is the animations and the more advanced graphic capabilities and the pace of development. Once JNPG 2 comes out there will be plenty of players but not many will playing wide open multiplayer rounds regardless of the areas of improvements in this area.
 
Everyone that wants to really play live multiplayer rounds will segregate into their preferred groups. Almost all multiplayer competitive games out there have the ability to lock out players. It is a basic necessity to please a large portion of any player base. Complain all you want this type of feature is not going away.
 
I'm not saying do not make improvements such as the ELO suggestion. I just do not see it making that great of an impact on live multiplayer. Recorded multiplayer baked in, now we are talking about something that would make a great and positive impact to this game. I know we have a way to play recorded rounds but it is too convoluted and honestly has some competitive flaws with the ability to keep restarting. I'll be excited about JNPG 2 and improvements to Course Forge and animations and graphics but if playing recorded rounds in a tournament setting is not baked in and reasonably hack proof then my interest in actual game play will remain the same. Tepid at best.
 
Cheers 

TGC’s ghost system is pretty good. PG has this as well but just not as seamlessly implemented at TGC.

The rest of TGC’s multiplayer environment is terribly lacking though.

PG has the right platform to build on IMHO. The only real complaint is the pace of the development and the lack of communication. Those are somewhat understandable given the size of the team. PG2 has great potential. Until it comes out I’ll be playing TGC2. It’s not perfect but it’s enjoyable enough while I wait on PG2.

[GoldenBear]

if it was up to me, there would be 10 foot gimmies. What do think of that? It's called speeding up the game.

What part of it saves time don't you understand? What part of I don't have 8+ hrs a day to sit in front of a stupid computer to play games don't you understand?

 

...might want to decrease the meds, as they seem to be clouding any reading and comprehensive ability...

(you find that comment offensive?  Sorry you were offended, but that's life)

"It's called speeding up the game."   No, it's called not playing the game.

 

 I am sorry if you are offended but Dave is right.  Show me any other game where one does not have to complete the task at hand?  Gimmes are a sad excuse for people who are either too lazy to finish what they started or obviously have not the patience to finish.  Nothing is a lamer and weaker argument than the "it says time" excuse.  If one is cramped for time, one should simply not start something they do not intend to finish on their own.  That is called doing a job half ass in my father's and my generation.

 

One a side note...I think the NHL among other sports should add their own version of the gimme.  In hockey if you hit the net posts or miss by a couple of inches call it a gimme goal.  This would speed up the game,  LOL

 

Sorry to you and all who use gimmes but I speak my mind in saying it is so lame.  Gimmes are not part of real golf and should be eradicated from this game if they consider it a sim.  No proper sim does your work for you.

[GoldenBear]

 

I keep reading about the game becoming stale for quite a few people. Considering the small number of posters on this forum that must be a bit of a concern. Judging by the low numbers in the lobby there are plenty of others who have simply stopped playing the game. Me: I read books and play my piano.

 

It's worth considering why arguably the best 'simulation' of golf becomes stale for so many people. 

 

To me it's fairly obvious. In this age of almost total multiplayer gaming to make it necessary for people to play a round solo will eventually become a boring exercise. OGT and PGLS (bless them) have provided a tournament environment but which is no more than a club comp (based on numbers) for the diehards still going around. That's cool - nevertheless most of the rounds would be played solo. There is a tiny frisson of excitement when your score is updated but evidently all this is not maintaining an active player base.

Especially a player base willing to pay money for the privilege.

 

It makes you wonder just how much long term interest things like 3D grass, new animations or a career mode will provide. There will be a surge of interest of course but for me, if I have to play solo, it will lose it's attraction pretty fast.

 

Now, you might say there is a working multiplayer component through the lobby and it's up to the players to patronise that if what I say is true about the ennui of solo play. Good point - but obviously it's as dead as a door nail and it doesn't really matter what the reasons are.

 

Interestingly, Mike posted in this thread expressing his regard for the multiplayer aspect of gaming. He admitted he had a a bunch of ideas about how PP can advance the multiplayer experience. Slowly but, I suppose surely, the message sinks in. There would be no point in asking for more detail from Mike but, depending on the format, I can't wait to find out. 

 

Nevertheless, I worry that whatever format is implemented it would not include what I consider the best way to generate huge interest and a vibrant competitive framework - an Elo ladder working in the lobby. I've posted many times in the past about the advantages of Elo for an online golf community and I won't rehash those points because there's only so many times you can whistle in the wind before you run out of breath.

 

Gasp.

 

"It makes you wonder just how much long term interest things like 3D grass, new animations or a career mode will provide. There will be a surge of interest of course but for me, if I have to play solo, it will lose it's attraction pretty fast."

 

I could probably name most of the ones in this forum who WILL get bored no matter what is done.  But I will not because they would never admit to it and would become irate.  These are the same individuals who were pandered to for most of what was asked to be implemented.

 

I see on many profiles those who have games in the 100's!  Most games have under 10 hours played or no hours at all.  This points to a certain type of personality.  A personality of one who can never be satisfied.

 

There is so much selection of what one can do with their free time these days that many have become bored with life.  Having a huge selection of options is not always a good thing.  It appears that sensory overload compels some to lose interest no matter how many options or games they own.

[Ted_Ball]

If you beat a higher rated player you will get a good swag of points. 

I don't really get this. If I have an unusually  good day and my better opponent has a bad day  I shouldn't suddenly zoom up in ranking. It should take more consistency to do that.

 

You wouldn't zoom up the rankings CC - you just get more points for beating a higher ranked player. If you were on 1200 pts and beat a guy who was on 1600 pts you might get...I dunno...16 points. That might move you from 98th position to 97th. If the higher ranked player wins he might get 3 points. But of course he would only lose 3 points if he lost. No biggie.

 

There is a certain amount of consideration about who you would play but in the iSnooker example there was always 'mismatched' games. In other words the elites didn't necessarily stick to their own. I would imagine if it was implemented in JNPG, and because of the assists available, matches would be pretty much unpredictable. A level playing field that only ego maniacs would object to. I would suggest that everyone leaves their egos at the door and forget about what assistance your opponent uses. 

 

The other beauty of Elo is that there was always a match available at any time of the day which overcame the difficulty of setting up tournaments among players from different time zones. If it was working well.

[Buck]

Regarding career mode…

I hope those that don't have any desire for one can realize, or at least appreciate, that some of us just like to play at strange hours or in broken up chunks and perhaps not even full rounds in one sitting just simply based on family and work commitments.

Additionally there is a progression and a goal and a longer-term play involved with the career mode. It is something to work on and strive towards over a long period of time versus simple multiplayer one off rounds.

Multiplayer is totally awesome, but having things that cater to those that can't necessarily always participate in complete drawn out multiplayer matches will only help the game. Cast a wide net and cater to as many as possible is a great philosophy.

[Dazmaniac]

"It's called speeding up the game."   No, it's called not playing the game.

 

 I am sorry if you are offended but Dave is right.  Show me any other game where one does not have to complete the task at hand?  Gimmes are a sad excuse for people who are either too lazy to finish what they started or obviously have not the patience to finish.  Nothing is a lamer and weaker argument than the "it says time" excuse.  If one is cramped for time, one should simply not start something they do not intend to finish on their own.  That is called doing a job half ass in my father's and my generation.

 

One a side note...I think the NHL among other sports should add their own version of the gimme.  In hockey if you hit the net posts or miss by a couple of inches call it a gimme goal.  This would speed up the game,  LOL

 

Sorry to you and all who use gimmes but I speak my mind in saying it is so lame.  Gimmes are not part of real golf and should be eradicated from this game if they consider it a sim.  No proper sim does your work for you.

 

* I guess you have never watched the Ryder Cup, Presidents Cup, Solheim Cup, Walker Cup, Curtis Cup, DELL Matchplay etc. etc.

 

The way they are used in computer/console golf games is different, I'll grant you that, but they are part of real golf.

 

* Guess you've never driven a driving simulator using automatic gearbox then.

[Crow357]

Please stay on topic and refrain from personal insults.

[✠ davef ✠]

the ability to edit the round settings from

the join round page. would be nice to be able to adjust for

getting players to join, rather then having to go back to step 1 to do so.

 

also in multiplayer it would be cool if say 4 people are playing

1 picks tee's,1 picks pin setting, 1 sets wind and so on. good way to get all the players input

and seems pretty fair too. could be done with the first paragraph.

[clubcaptain]

You wouldn't zoom up the rankings CC - you just get more points for beating a higher ranked player. If you were on 1200 pts and beat a guy who was on 1600 pts you might get...I dunno...16 points. That might move you from 98th position to 97th. If the higher ranked player wins he might get 3 points. But of course he would only lose 3 points if he lost. No biggie.

 

There is a certain amount of consideration about who you would play but in the iSnooker example there was always 'mismatched' games. In other words the elites didn't necessarily stick to their own. I would imagine if it was implemented in JNPG, and because of the assists available, matches would be pretty much unpredictable. A level playing field that only ego maniacs would object to. I would suggest that everyone leaves their egos at the door and forget about what assistance your opponent uses. 

 

The other beauty of Elo is that there was always a match available at any time of the day which overcame the difficulty of setting up tournaments among players from different time zones. If it was working well.

Apart from "swag" this from Wikipedia "If the high-rated player wins, then only a few rating points will be taken from the low-rated player. However, if the lower rated player scores an upset win, many rating points will be transferred." led me to believe zoom was not entirely off the mark but I bow to your greater knowledge.

[JCat04]

Sorry to you and all who use gimmes but I speak my mind in saying it is so lame.  Gimmes are not part of real golf and should be eradicated from this game if they consider it a sim.  No proper sim does your work for you.

 

I see them used in real golf in the World Match Play Championships all the time... or do you not equate conceding a putt to a gimmie?

 

On the other hand, I'll admit that I'm impatient and that's partially why I choose to use 2 foot gimmies.  As an RTSC player though, I must say that I fear a 2 foot putt in JNPG more than a 4 footer because it's so easy to overpower them over the cup with the tuning of the current swing interface, but as a 3-clicker, you wouldn't be able to relate to that    

[Ted_Ball]

Yeah CC there's a sliding scale based on the player's ladder ranking. From a hazy memory of iSnooker, each new player starts from a ranking of 1400 points. The top players reach a ranking of just over 2000 and the lowest drop down to below 1000. The best were nearly unbeatable by an average player but it didn't stop the average players from challenging them. If we had an Elo here which embraced all types and levels it would take a good streak of wins to reach the top because the matches would be relatively unpredictable.

 

Among the vast numbers of average players in iSnooker the ladder movement was very up and down. It took a good winning streak to make a significant move up the board. It certainly made each frame a keen competition. I would imagine that competitive tension would be high in a golf Elo.

 

I was thinking that with the right coding it would be possible to have a threesome or foursome with individual scoring within the round.  

[Ted_Ball]

Let me reiterate that an Elo ladder never ends unlike tournaments. The competition is running 24/7/12. There's no timetable to finish and you have a chance to be a winner every hour if you wish - unlike tournaments where there is only one winner (disregarding levels within the tournament). 

[Perculator]

Well, this has been said before and, in my opinion, should have been included in PG1 ...

 

The ability to see who is in the multi-player game, and what level they are playing would be real nice. In addition to the regular stuff, course, conditions, MOP etc.

[JoeBradley]

I guess we're all looking for 'immersion' in one form or another. But the means to achieving that - as evidenced by this thread - will differ for each of us. More importantly, for the game to endure, PG2 will have to draw in and keep casual players. And it's a broad spectrum. At one extreme, there'll be a player who doesn't much care about graphics - it's all about physics, competition, and stats. At the other, a player who would like to pull a club from a bag, 'walk' a photo-realistic course between shots, and listen to the birdsong on the way. If that means 'covering all bases' then so be it: reliable 3-click and RTS swing mechanics; improved animations, lighting and course graphics; compelling in-game ladder play and tournaments; immersive career mode; pick-up-and play mode; etc, etc. Deep yet accessible. Will PG2 deliver? On past evidence, probably not. The great strength of PG has been its game mechanics. But you have to delve in and persevere to get the most from the game. Too many barriers for the casual player. Look how convoluted the process is to buy a DLC course, or find regular tournaments to play, or get a casual multiplayer round. PG2 likely needs a fundamental shift in design ethos to build a player base, and for all our input of useful suggestions here, we're the fish already caught in the net. PG2 needs to trawl the open ocean for new ideas.          

[Ron Piskorik]

the ability to edit the round settings from

the join round page. would be nice to be able to adjust for

getting players to join, rather then having to go back to step 1 to do so.

 

also in multiplayer it would be cool if say 4 people are playing

1 picks tee's,1 picks pin setting, 1 sets wind and so on. good way to get all the players input

and seems pretty fair too. could be done with the first paragraph.

 

The ability to modify game settings on the join game page would be a great addition to the game.  I can't remember how many times we have had to go back to the lobby to restart the game because someone made a mistake in setting up the game.

[Ron Piskorik]

I would like the ability to change the grid color.  It is very difficult to see on some very light colored greens.  If we don't get the ability to modify the color, could the default color be changed to white or an other color that would be easier to see on all greens?

[wim1234]

much more userfriendly...like keeping my settings in the coursescreen, isntead of doing them again and again.

a lil thing, but thats just one example.  otherone is the carouseldesign..doesnt work with so many courses.

for newcomers, some good tutorials, i mean playing along ones.

[Flyon]

The great strength of PG has been its game mechanics. But you have to delve in and persevere to get the most from the game. Too many barriers for the casual player. Look how convoluted the process is to buy a DLC course, or find regular tournaments to play, or get a casual multiplayer round.

 

PG2 likely needs a fundamental shift in design ethos to build a player base, and for all our input of useful suggestions here, we're the fish already caught in the net. PG2 needs to trawl the open ocean for new ideas.          

 

Everything said by Joe here is gospel.

Which begs the question (in my view): why do we need a PG2? What's exactly wrong with what we bought three years ago?

I don't have the fastest pc, but for what it's worth, JNPG plays fine as is.

To the devs I say just add the obvious missing things like commentary, crowds, a decent online lobby, and Coeur D'Alene...

 

I really don't want to dedicate more hard drive space to yet another golf game, whatever version it is.

The JNPG version we have now is very good, even on an old dinosaur pc like mine with a substandard graphics card. But worrying about 3d grass and trivial things like that for the next version are what's making peeps drive away from this game in droves imo...

 

Imo no 'next' version is needed. Make the current JNPG one up to standards that blow away TW08 and Links2003.

News flash: peeps aren't gonna stick around for promises on any new version -only to have hopes dashed on something that doesn't meet the high expectations that come with a version two of anything...

 

It seems to me the game is good as-is. Wasting time, money, and energy on  trying to appease to 20-some die-hard forum readers now to create a JNPG2 seems like a waste of resources that could better spent on improving the current model JNPG v1...

[Buck]

But worrying about 3d grass and trivial things like that for the next version are what's making peeps drive away from this game in droves imo...

It is possible you have this backwards perhaps.

What may be driving people away is that the initial version was relatively feature incomplete, looked very old to some peoples eyes relative to how other modern sports games look and is just a bit clunky in its design and operation.

Things like up-to-date avatars with much more customization, better lightning and visuals and availability on console are absolutely not "trivial things".

I think the reason they decided to do it as a new version was so they could approach a lot of the groundwork from scratch and do it the correct way to begin with.

Also… It's more than time for everyone to pay for a new version again so this is a good opportunity for that as well.

[✠ davef ✠]

Also… It's more than time for everyone to pay for a new version again so this is a good opportunity for that as well.

money been in my steam wallet for a couple of years now, just waiting.

as for forgetting PG2 i don't think so.lol

hey i only have a mid card and if i have to upgrade again i will, only 2 options.

either upgrade and keep up with the times, or find another golf game to play it is just that simple.

rather upgrade myself.

 

hey Buck you believe we agree on something.lol