468 replies to this topic

[DivotMaker]

Everything said by Joe here is gospel.

Which begs the question (in my view): why do we need a PG2? What's exactly wrong with what we bought three years ago?

I don't have the fastest pc, but for what it's worth, JNPG plays fine as is.

To the devs I say just add the obvious missing things like commentary, crowds, a decent online lobby, and Coeur D'Alene...

 

I really don't want to dedicate more hard drive space to yet another golf game, whatever version it is.

The JNPG version we have now is very good, even on an old dinosaur pc like mine with a substandard graphics card. But worrying about 3d grass and trivial things like that for the next version are what's making peeps drive away from this game in droves imo...

 

Imo no 'next' version is needed. Make the current JNPG one up to standards that blow away TW08 and Links2003.

News flash: peeps aren't gonna stick around for promises on any new version -only to have hopes dashed on something that doesn't meet the high expectations that come with a version two of anything...

 

It seems to me the game is good as-is. Wasting time, money, and energy on  trying to appease to 20-some die-hard forum readers now to create a JNPG2 seems like a waste of resources that could better spent on improving the current model JNPG v1...

 

Going to disagree here. Users are always looking for their game to be better in some way, shape, or form. You may be the exception. There is no one saying you can't continue to play JNPG if that is your choice. However, JNPG needs to evolve into a more modern, more user-friendly and technically superior version, IMO. There is alot to like in the current version, but there is nothing wrong with pushing the boundaries and improving the game to grow the game, the franchise, and the community.

[✠ davef ✠]

Flyon

how would you expect this game to go forward with out bringing it into 

the time's. as it sits right now there has been a big slow down in the forums and people playing the game

due to no upgrades. you also seem to have a problem with us folks who have all day long to enjoy our passion in the PC

world. TBH we who do have that kind of time have EARNED it. also the 20 or so hardcore forum users without them they may as well shut em down, along with the hardcore players,if for no hardcore players there would be no game at all. not to hard to figure a game like this can not be without constant players.

it needs to progress

[clubcaptain]

Bringing in new bells and whistles won't provide much additional longevity if things that are wrong now or missing get overlooked again. Much better to put as much time as possible into something Mike said a while ago now, and I agreed with . Namely, intoducing personalisation into the game big time. personalisation for the player, not the player character. 

 

We've all been playing the same game and all newcomers, as few as they might be, will all be playing that same game. It contributes heavily to the staleness being felt by lots of folks. It's so impersonal. We can all hit the ball the same distance with the same mechanics.  Every player should be able to customise the game as he/she wants to in every way possible, ranging from apparel through club types, club distances, shot shaping to characterisations and beyond. We should all be able to look over the shoulder of someone else and say "wow, that's cool - how'd you do that !" Or, looking at your own game and saying "wow, that's cool, I did that !" Lots of that could have been done in the present version of JNPG, and,yes, I would have paid for that.

[Flyon]

Daz kind of hit it on point for me, in replying to the golden bear: just like in real life, I drive the old fashioned way: shifting  the gears with the handshaker, so for me there is no "automatic gearbox". On the other hand, I never sought that option out -guess that explains why Hamilton laps me on any track in F12, F14, or F16...lol
But Mr. D does make the golden point of mentioning the gimmies are seen in match play, and that it does happen in the real golf world...bravo!!!

There is no need to do any upgrade: build on the fundamentals that are already in place.
There is no new audience to capture any new players from. The pc golf market out there today doesn't look promising to the 18-35 demo -which, unfortunately enough for the rest of us old pc golfing farts, is what keeps money flowing into any dev's coffers. The 18-35 demo pays the bills, we old-tymers don't. 

To quote Mr. Bradley: "PG2 likely needs a fundamental shift in design ethos to build a player base, and for all our input of useful suggestions here, we're the fish already caught in the net. PG2 needs to trawl the open ocean for new ideas."
There is no need for new ideas. The base is already here in JNPG 1 -it simply needs some add ons.
Add all the new gimmicks you want in PG2, it still won't affect the overall attractiveness to new players -which is why I say improve on the current model, and maybe the TW08 and L2K3 golfers will come on board. The concept of attracting new players to pc golf won't change, regardless of the platform.
That draw doesn't come from new bells and whistles every two years, the draw comes from the youth in the world that actually take interest in the sport. The way it sits right now, there is no draw for the youth to the game of golf, as there are no role models to inspire anyone to golf (no matter what the Golf Channel tells you), let alone pc golf...

The 'demographic that counts' will not do any upgrade to their graphics card to play any pc golf game, be it PG1, let alone PG2. They will simply ignore said golf games and move on. That's why I said earlier for the devs to concentrate the resources to PG1, whatever limited resources are left at this point...

And no, I don't think that I am the only exception to not wanting or seeing a PG2. I'm just the sucker who alienates everyone by speaking up about it.
I am a realist, and reality tells me that offering PG2 will be nothing but a waste of time and money -on a small dev team that is very limited with both time and money to begin with -when they could be making money using the current PG1 model to earn money other than here, without having to appease to a small core of ex L2K3 and TW platform golfers, who for the most part imo seem to live on the champagne taste, but in reality: only with a beer pocket...
 

To answer the question: "how would you expect this game to go forward with out bringing it into the time's"?
Answer: there is no "times". The game cannot go into the "times" with the limited amount of people playing it today. Here, or on any pc golf platform out there today. TV ratings prove it. The demographic numbers don't lie.
The sad truth is, once this generation of TV golf watchers dies off, there won't be anyone to surplant what has left. Watch and see. The same applies to pc golf.

If there is only twenty "hardcore forum users", how many hardcore players are there here now? A hundred? Good, maybe. But not enough to keep the game alive -which is why you don't release a new model of anything, until the first one has been to it's limits. PG1 maxxed out to it's limits would imo nix any need for a PG2...

 

I have no chance of any retirement, but I certainly think I earned it. 50 years in the work force -ten of those self employed- should qualify me for retirement. But those ten years of self employment killed any chances of me drawing a decent salary. Besides that SS and medicare will be fiction by the time I turn 65...so I for one will have to work until the day I die.
It is exhilarating for those of the 'greatest generation' -and just before Generation X- to look down on me like I'm a no-good POS though, who think I should just go along with the status quo of the majority here...

Sorry to all of you, but I maintain the game should stay as-is, as PG1, improving on what PG1 already has now.

 

Done here today: I've said enough -probably too much...

[Buck]

There is no need to do any upgrade: build on the fundamentals that are already in place.

I think this might be a moot point at this time.
PG2 is happening


 

There is no new audience to capture any new players from. The pc golf market out there today doesn't look promising to the 18-35 demo

How do we know that for sure?

 

In any case, PP certainly won't capture any new market that may be out there without doing some updates and refreshes and hopefully also getting to consoles.



 

The 18-35 demo pays the bills, we old-tymers don't.

But if there is no 18-35 demo to capture, yet they pay the bills and the old-timers do not..
The only logical conclusion is for PP to completely abandon this game (PG2 and PG1)

Is that what you'd suggest?

[✠ davef ✠]

all looks good on paper, it is just not the route PP has taken

and it is their ball. kinda figure if we don't help em run

with it we will only be left behind.

[GoldenBear]

* I guess you have never watched the Ryder Cup, Presidents Cup, Solheim Cup, Walker Cup, Curtis Cup, DELL Matchplay etc. etc.

 

The way they are used in computer/console golf games is different, I'll grant you that, but they are part of real golf.

 

* Guess you've never driven a driving simulator using automatic gearbox then.

I am in two sim racing leagues and no I have not used auto gearing.  If i did that would make me a hypocrite.  

 

I admit when I am wrong and you proved it.  Thanks for the reply.  I guess going forward my take should simply be I do not like them. 

[GoldenBear]

Everything said by Joe here is gospel.

Which begs the question (in my view): why do we need a PG2? What's exactly wrong with what we bought three years ago?

I don't have the fastest pc, but for what it's worth, JNPG plays fine as is.

To the devs I say just add the obvious missing things like commentary, crowds, a decent online lobby, and Coeur D'Alene...

 

I really don't want to dedicate more hard drive space to yet another golf game, whatever version it is.

The JNPG version we have now is very good, even on an old dinosaur pc like mine with a substandard graphics card. But worrying about 3d grass and trivial things like that for the next version are what's making peeps drive away from this game in droves imo...

 

Imo no 'next' version is needed. Make the current JNPG one up to standards that blow away TW08 and Links2003.

News flash: peeps aren't gonna stick around for promises on any new version -only to have hopes dashed on something that doesn't meet the high expectations that come with a version two of anything...

 

It seems to me the game is good as-is. Wasting time, money, and energy on  trying to appease to 20-some die-hard forum readers now to create a JNPG2 seems like a waste of resources that could better spent on improving the current model JNPG v1...

"It seems to me the game is good as-is. Wasting time, money, and energy on  trying to appease to 20-some die-hard forum readers now to create a JNPG2 seems like a waste of resources that could better spent on improving the current model JNPG v1..."

 

I am so much in agreement because the 20 diehards will get bored and leave again.  The same as they keep doing.

 

post script... I was a closed beta tester for TW11 online for versions 2 through 5.  We testers played an exorbitant amount of time testing and posting bugs for EA.  After they dropped the game (because not making maximum profit) I have never bought an EA product since.  I shall never again.

[GoldenBear]

the ability to edit the round settings from

the join round page. would be nice to be able to adjust for

getting players to join, rather then having to go back to step 1 to do so.

 

also in multiplayer it would be cool if say 4 people are playing

1 picks tee's,1 picks pin setting, 1 sets wind and so on. good way to get all the players input

and seems pretty fair too. could be done with the first paragraph.

The best suggestion this forum has seen in a long time.  Outstanding.

[GoldenBear]

To Affo...

You are right that I should mellow out a bit and did not want to offend you or anyone.  I am very opinionated by nature and got it from my father.  That does not mean I have to follow in his footsteps.  My apologies to you and all.

[Flyon]

Yes, by the sounds of it, I will have to duly admit that PG2 will be happening.

 

What I am afraid of is this: when PG1 was released some 3-4 yrs. ago, you would see 100-120? peeps in the lobby on any given time of day. Now you see 20-30 on any given time of day?
So now PG2 will come out. I predict that the numbers will support the PG2 upgrade at first, just as the lobby numbers were strong for PG1 at first.
But after PG1 got stale, the lobby numbers dropped. From what I see today, they have not recovered...
PG2 I feel might have the same effect: at first, many players. Then after six months, they disappear.
Then, sme minor adjustments will be made, but the numbers will never come back...

 

Thus starts the downfall of pc golf, which is why I am adamant about being not in favor of upgrading anything, until the current model gets perfected.
Did Links2000 jump from that to Links2003 overnight? Did TW '99 jump to TW '08 overnight? Of course not. So why the hell are we in such a hurry to upgrade PG1 to PG2 overnight? PG1 neds the neccesites added first, like commentary, crowds, and a career mode way before even thinking that PG1 is good enough to go to PG2...

 

How do I know there will be no 18-35 demo to capture pc golfers from? Watch the PGA Tour on TV.
Today's "phenoms" were inspired by who? Tiger. Some might say Player, Norman, Price, Jack or Arnie to be politically correct, but everyone knows TW was the guy who made Augusta and other major venues "Tiger-Proofed".
Soon after that companies go out and build all the new courses, then people in droves went out and play the courses. Then TW falls, and so does the industry.
While all of this was happening, what were pc players playing golf-wise?
Now who exactly is inspiring the next generation? No one. What you see now is what you get: a lot of TV-commercialized snooze golf...

 

If one wants to base TV ratings on what the console world judges by, then I am done. EA's Rory made sure of that.
TW on EA was the thing to beat -and quite frankly back in the day, it was a coin toss to which I would play: TW pc or console.
Console had the graphics, but a crap online deal -just compare it to dial-up 'net speed back in the day.
But pc had the camaraderie of playing solo, solo offline, online in the lobby, or playing offline/online in many community-based leagues. I see none of that noadays on pc or on a console -hence my 18-35 demo comments...

 

I would hate to see PG1 or PG2 get abandoned, but in reality, I am not playing any console golf, pc golf, or real life golf much anymore. No draw to it for me anymore. I'm spending more time trying to champion pc golf to go back to it's root's -without much success.

 

As buck reitereated to earlier, you are right dave: the ball is in their court.
I am happy with what we have now, but it appears that I am vastly outnumbered as far as anyone agreeing with me. For me, this game as it sits now is indeed "perfect" -if some things are added to the original.
I for one hate to have to go and spend who-knows-how-much to go to PG2 -only to have the wool pulled from under us like EA did with TW Online...
I just hate seeing something that runs so great on my pc get scrapped. Who knows how PG2 will run on my current pc?
I certainly don't have the money to upgrade my laptop to play PG1 now, so I know PG2 will be impossible to play on my laptop.
I don't want that dilemma on my main gaming pc for playing PG2.

 

Sorry guys: that's why I am being so dam stubborn and fighting to the death on this PG2 upgrade...nothing personal gents....

[Flyon]

"It seems to me the game is good as-is. Wasting time, money, and energy on  trying to appease to 20-some die-hard forum readers now to create a JNPG2 seems like a waste of resources that could better spent on improving the current model JNPG v1..."

 

I am so much in agreement because the 20 diehards will get bored and leave again.  The same as they keep doing.

 

Bingo...

[Buck]

@flyon: I guess I just don't see what you are advocating for here.

They are already well on the way with PG2. It is already coming.
The decision is in the past.

I agree with you that we all want a more complete game this time around and I'm pretty sure that's the path they are heading down.
All we can do is wait to see what that looks like.

One comment about the decline in PC Golf.
That is not coming, it is here in my opinion.

This area of interest has all but bottomed out post Tiger Woods in real golf.
The sport, both real and virtual, is very niche at this point unfortunately.

Honestly I am just happy we have any PC golf options at this point.

[jt83]

Today's "phenoms" were inspired by who? Tiger.

 

He was the perfect storm for golf's popularity.  PG is simply in the unfortunate position of coming out in the jetwash of his downfall.

 

I've tried to think of things that would revive the sport quickly.

 

• A bad-tempered millennial ala Nick Kyrgios
• 9-hole championships
• New competitions like Europe vs the world

 

Sadly there's not much anyone can do.  There are Golden Ages and ages that aren't.

[shimonko]

Don't care about 3d grass or much else apart from fixing chip and runs, chips into elevated greens stopping abruptly, and the water hazard bug that gives no other option but to restart the game. They're worth $35 in themselves.

[Ted_Ball]

PG2 is coming out so they can get $35 off us. Most of this stuff that people are looking for in this thread ain't gonna happen.

[shimonko]

It's not a compulsory purchase - if it doesn't offer enough incremental value people won't buy it.

Think of it as $35 to support the continued development of a game people have already got far greater value from than the price originally paid.

[✠ davef ✠]

PG2 is coming out so they can get $35 off us. Most of this stuff that people are looking for in this thread ain't gonna happen.

you do have something here, TBH though i don't mind paying another 35 bucks hell got better then 3yrs out of the first 20.

if PP would just take over the running of their game instead of  expecting the community to carry them on just about everything else going on with this game and community. i really can't see a lot of this thread coming to life either. pretty much a fantasy thread. also it would not surprise me at all if the console version comes to life,us here in the PC game will be forgotten.

[shimonko]

I think they definitely did the right thing - give great APIs for the community to extend the game. There's no way PP would have the resources to do what OGT does so well. I can't say I've ever had the impression that PP expect the community to carry them -  they simply built a game good enough and allowed extension with the hope the community would extend it.

[✠ davef ✠]

without the APis this game would not have gone nowhere, so depending on the community

is the only thing that keeps it afloat as is. problem with that is you have to sign up go to off sites

to even get course's. some people in this thread and all through the forums complain they don't have a bunch of time to spend playing the game, but love to play it and need things made quicker. well all this web surfing to play a game is the biggest waste of time. when i pay for a game i expect

the whole game in the same place. lets face it just guessing i would say less then 50% of the folks even playing this game have ever been in the forums let alone going all over the place to play different course's.

been my biggest problem with the game.

they need to step up out of the past, don't know much about links but i would almost bet it was run in the same manner

or very much like this. who has made the bucks on golf games EA no one has ever even come close.

study their game there are good parts to their game that could be brought aboard here that would draw people but

i know small crew and all that , how hard is it to have someone to set up daily tourneys and weekly tourneys that alone would draw in some folks in the long run. honestly i have wondered for some time now what day it will be when i go to get on and it is gone. lets face it we all got our money,s worth out of this game long ago. developing seems to be also stuck at this point even little needy things are not getting fixed.

3C is the most used swing and look at the complaining about the meter all the time, i don't have these problems but seems lots of others do

who knows where we go from here it is all just guessing.