468 replies to this topic

[shimonko]

clubcaptain, on 17 Oct 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

Not quite Frank. I have been saying for  a long time that the current game is far from being anything like a finished article and I know that quite a few others have voiced the same opinion. So I can't understand why that message hasn't got through to the devs. It's just another thing they don't want to hear or they hear but don't listen.

There's no such thing as a finished product. It could have better barbie dressups and all the other gimmicks many want to keep them happy for a few weeks, but then someone will say when are we getting ground under repair, then environmentally sensitive areas, then loose impediments, free drops from immovable obstructions, the ability to move movable obstructions, TIOs,... I could probably rattle another 200 off.

I can't speak for PG's devs but as a fellow dev, we hear everything, we just have many considerations that you are not privy to.

[GoldenBear]

shimonko, on 16 Oct 2017 - 07:27 AM, said:

Don't care about 3d grass or much else apart from fixing chip and runs, chips into elevated greens stopping abruptly, and the water hazard bug that gives no other option but to restart the game. They're worth $35 in themselves.

I find the chipping to be bang on and have no issues with steep uphill chips.

[GoldenBear]

davefv92c, on 16 Oct 2017 - 12:54 PM, said:

yea something needs to happen to bring in some folks 46 in the lobby right now

that is sad. at one time yesterday i did notice 93 on but 20 minutes later i looked and was back in the 60s

and on a sunday. thinking people just stopping by to see if there where any upgrades and back out the door, at least that is my guess

Or they stopped by, set up a game, then left in disgust when no one was joining.

[GoldenBear]

Dazmaniac, on 16 Oct 2017 - 10:25 PM, said:

Why not just say TGC2? Surely there's nothing to be embarrassed about that you have to call it 'this other game'.

 

It is a show of respect for the developers of this game.  

[GoldenBear]

Short attention spans make for getting bored of anything no matter how good it is.  I am not bored with this game as it is right now.  Adding bling bling does not impress me.

[mebby]

I think it's clear that there are different wants/needs based on your swing preference.  If you are a 3C guy then updated animations really mean very little.  If you're a RTS (mouse or controller) then updated, real-time, swing animations are much more meaningful.

 

3D grass is certainly just a cosmetic item and doesn't affect gameplay at all (unless they get creative).  But to me, having a fantastic game with beautiful real-time animations and having 1990 2D grass is like washing and waxing a $80K car but leaving the tires and rims dirty.  It just ruins the whole view.

[JCat04]

mebby, on 17 Oct 2017 - 10:13 PM, said:

I think it's clear that there are different wants/needs based on your swing preference.  If you are a 3C guy then updated animations really mean very little.  If you're a RTS (mouse or controller) then updated, real-time, swing animations are much more meaningful.

 

3D grass is certainly just a cosmetic item and doesn't affect gameplay at all (unless they get creative).  But to me, having a fantastic game with beautiful real-time animations and having 1990 2D grass is like washing and waxing a $80K car but leaving the tires and rims dirty.  It just ruins the whole view.

 

Splendidly put Mebby; you summed up my thoughts on this to a "T".  A golfer animation means nothing to a 3-clicker, but as an RTS-C player, the lack of a fluidly animated one that's tightly integrated with the stick movement is a critical factor.  Also, the current 2D rough in JNPG is not consistent with the rest of the game's look.  3D grass is going to elevate the looks of this game to the point that new customers are going to start paying attention to this game again.  

[Acrilix]

JCat04, on 17 Oct 2017 - 11:03 PM, said:

3D grass is going to elevate the looks of this game to the point that new customers are going to start paying attention to this game again.  

 

Personally I think that once the initial wow factor wears off, 3D grass is going to make all the courses look very 'samey' much like TGC's, but I hope I am proved wrong.

[mebby]

Acrilix, on 18 Oct 2017 - 01:16 AM, said:

Personally I think that once the initial wow factor wears off, 3D grass is going to make all the courses look very 'samey' much like TGC's, but I hope I am proved wrong.

Can't see how that would be the case if 2D grass isn't having that same effect. 

[RobV]

JCat04, on 17 Oct 2017 - 11:03 PM, said:

Splendidly put Mebby; you summed up my thoughts on this to a "T".  A golfer animation means nothing to a 3-clicker, but as an RTS-C player, the lack of a fluidly animated one that's tightly integrated with the stick movement is a critical factor.  Also, the current 2D rough in JNPG is not consistent with the rest of the game's look.  3D grass is going to elevate the looks of this game to the point that new customers are going to start paying attention to this game again.  

Completely disagree...  I remember when Links went from that "movie-like" animation to a 3D model, it was amazing!   3C or Mouse swing, new animations are certainly welcomed in all swing forms...  I would try em all! 

[Acrilix]

mebby, on 18 Oct 2017 - 01:41 AM, said:

Can't see how that would be the case if 2D grass isn't having that same effect. 

 

You simply can't create the same variations with fixed coloured polygons that you can using photographs. Just look at the best 3D tree available in the game and compare it to a photograph of a tree. At the moment, designers are blending photographs to create textures and this creates very realistic pattern, detail, and colour changes throughout a course. This will be impossible to imitate using 3D grass. It won't be an issue when recreating manicured Augusta type courses, where everything is uniform and one coloured, but courses with a lot of colour and texture variation will be impossible, until the 3D algorithms are vastly more complex than anything that has been created to date. In real life you have patches of clover etc. mixed with grass, worn areas, patches that grow differently to those around them, subtle colour changes etc. All of these are captured using 2D photos as textures, but will not be present in the sterile environment of 3D grass. Designers will be restricted by the effects possible with 3D grass and this will limit what can be created compared to what we currently have in JNPG.

[✠ davef ✠]

Acrilix kind of opened my eye's a little with the above post.

i have never been one to push for 3d grass and had no idea that the courses

will not have the same realism that we have now. i don't have TGC 2 and not wasting my time there.

so i have not played the 3d grass, are we really looking forward to 3d grass for cosmetics or will it play differently ?

[mebby]

Acrilix, on 18 Oct 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

You simply can't create the same variations with fixed coloured polygons that you can using photographs. Just look at the best 3D tree available in the game and compare it to a photograph of a tree. At the moment, designers are blending photographs to create textures and this creates very realistic pattern, detail, and colour changes throughout a course. This will be impossible to imitate using 3D grass. It won't be an issue when recreating manicured Augusta type courses, where everything is uniform and one coloured, but courses with a lot of colour and texture variation will be impossible, until the 3D algorithms are vastly more complex than anything that has been created to date. In real life you have patches of clover etc. mixed with grass, worn areas, patches that grow differently to those around them, subtle colour changes etc. All of these are captured using 2D photos as textures, but will not be present in the sterile environment of 3D grass. Designers will be restricted by the effects possible with 3D grass and this will limit what can be created compared to what we currently have in JNPG.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Good information there. 

 

But it's still a risk that I'd be willing to take. I think the pros outweigh the cons. 

[DivotMaker]

Acrilix, on 18 Oct 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

You simply can't create the same variations with fixed coloured polygons that you can using photographs. Just look at the best 3D tree available in the game and compare it to a photograph of a tree. At the moment, designers are blending photographs to create textures and this creates very realistic pattern, detail, and colour changes throughout a course. This will be impossible to imitate using 3D grass. It won't be an issue when recreating manicured Augusta type courses, where everything is uniform and one coloured, but courses with a lot of colour and texture variation will be impossible, until the 3D algorithms are vastly more complex than anything that has been created to date. In real life you have patches of clover etc. mixed with grass, worn areas, patches that grow differently to those around them, subtle colour changes etc. All of these are captured using 2D photos as textures, but will not be present in the sterile environment of 3D grass. Designers will be restricted by the effects possible with 3D grass and this will limit what can be created compared to what we currently have in JNPG.

 

I will still take 3D grass over what we have now.....limitations included.

[Buck]

It seems sensible that we should wait to see how the volumetric grass in this game is implemented before we worry about the pros and cons.

There are certainly spots of the game that look really good right now… But so so many that don't.

I played last night again for the first time in a couple months and it really opened my eyes to that once more.

[clubcaptain]

Do we know that 3D grass will be applied to ALL terrain types e.g. light rough, rough, heavy rough. If so then everything will look almost the same then we might have to rely on PG to keep churning out variations of the 3D grass.

[Acrilix]

clubcaptain, on 18 Oct 2017 - 3:34 PM, said:

Do we know that 3D grass will be applied to ALL terrain types e.g. light rough, rough, heavy rough. If so then everything will look almost the same then we might have to rely on PG to keep churning out variations of the 3D grass.

 

I'm sure I read recently that you will judge the lie of the ball in JNPG2 by how it is actually sitting in the rough, not by a percentage stat. If this is the case then all rough will have to be 3D. I have no idea how natural terrain lies will be dealt with though if this is the case as I'm guessing they won't have 3D grass applied. 

[✠ davef ✠]

Acrilix, on 18 Oct 2017 - 5:37 PM, said:

I'm sure I read recently that you will judge the lie of the ball in JNPG2 by how it is actually sitting in the rough, not by a percentage stat.  

this sounds more like a hit it and hope, there are so many different penalty % in each course

kind of crazy to think this is going to bring in new,and more players.

[Dazmaniac]

davefv92c, on 18 Oct 2017 - 6:40 PM, said:

this sounds more like a hit it and hope, there are so many different penalty % in each course

kind of crazy to think this is going to bring in new,and more players.

 

Play golf IRL and you don't get no values at the side of your ball advising 15% power loss and 25% spin loss, lol.

 

I'm all for losing the values under the meter as long as we can get a reasonable enough idea of how the ball is lying so that we can make a judgement on how we think the shot will be affected, just like when I'm playing for real.

 

If it means I have to play some practise rounds to get a feel for how the 3D rough plays, then all well and good.

 

Sometimes golf is a bit of hit and hope, especially when playing from rough.

 

Here's what Mike actually stated in a 'feature request' thread about JNPG2....

 

Mike Jones, on 28 Sept 2017 - 8:45 PM, said:

We will be able to show 'flyer lies' and also the ball sitting down in the rough visually so you will have to make your own assessment of what is likely going to happen when the ball is hit. Turf Effects won't just be eye candy, it'll be an integral part of how you play the game.

 

 

[✠ davef ✠]

Dazmaniac, on 18 Oct 2017 - 11:10 PM, said:

Play golf IRL and you don't get no values at the side of your ball advising 15% power loss and 25% spin loss, lol.

 

I'm all for losing the values under the meter as long as we can get a reasonable enough idea of how the ball is lying so that we can make a judgement on how we think the shot will be affected, just like when I'm playing for real.

 

If it means I have to play some practise rounds to get a feel for how the 3D rough plays, then all well and good.

 

Sometimes golf is a bit of hit and hope, especially when playing from rough.

difference in real life you are standing over the ball and can see everything, with a game you can not get the same view

and then we get to graphic cards, so you can see it better, not to mention 3d will not let you see it as in real time.

on these courses now hell i have been in short rough and had a 15%= penalty right off the side of the fairway.

if something like this is going to happen it would mean the course designers would need to come up with a base that all should follow and i just don't see that happening. almost bet they can't make something like this work and make it a profitable game. im not one that does not know the real game it is all i did when i was a youngun lots of days 36 holes, lots of weeks 3 to 4 times a week. most of my play with adults,as i was a big kid at 6'4'' and a full beard at age 14. family was in the retail golf business and i spent a lot of time out with customers testing demo club's, selling em as we played.

also spent time playing in the JRs in the state of ohio, so i do know the game

quit school at 16 gave up the golf and went to work in a steal foundry worst mistake i made in my lifetime

but there was a Harley out there with my name on it,and my peeps would not help me with it due to afraid i would kill myself. could not make the money in school. i had a brand new Hog at the age of 17 along with the last year of the big motor Hurst Trans Am 455.