468 replies to this topic

[fungolfer]

I'd like to see the swing meter integrated into the player animation. If the feedback is real time then there would be no need for a swing meter

Balls should get collider function. In real golf balls can hit and move other balls except on the greens when putting. Think most of the actual game is enough for me so not too many wishes on my end, mostly cosmetic stuff.

[✠ davef ✠]

maybe some more of the lighted courses

so us ding a lings that like to play night thunderstorm golf can have some fun

and at least some orange balls for some of these creations coming out are bound to have snow on them.

[✠ davef ✠]

I'd like to see the swing meter integrated into the player animation. If the feedback is real time then there would be no need for a swing meter

 

i would like to see it as an option so we got time to learn, and still keep up with tourneys and such as is now.

[Dazmaniac]

In answer to the topic title.....

Depending on how long the 3D grass is, most likely my ball, lol

[jeffield]

-asynchronous multiplayer
-a really good career mode with editable golfers/names
-a challenging tempo based swing with the controller
-console release

*the gameplay in this game is really good.(rts-m)/ love the PG2 graphic shots.

[Mailman]

I can and do deal with the lag. It's not a game breaker. But it's there and I'm 99.99% certain that given the OPTION the developers AND the players would all chose no lag over mild lag all day everyday.

 

+1

[Buck]

I can and do deal with the lag. It's not a game breaker. But it's there and I'm 99.99% certain that given the OPTION the developers AND the players would all chose no lag over mild lag all day everyday.

 

I think I would want to hear some Dev talk about the reasoning for the lag currently before I personally vote to not have it.

 

Is it a technical limitation that's enabling something else, perhaps important to the overall experience, to function correctly?

Is it simply a matter of making "something" better and more refined in the code that they just didn't get to or couldn't figure out way back when?

 

For me at least, since I'm never playing TGC as I don't own it, I literally think about the lag *never*.

It never ever, not even once, comes to mind as I'm so acclimated to it.

 

Would I prefer it gone?

Maybe?  I guess?

It's hard to say yes when you currently aren't noticing it or bothered by it.

 

It seems like the more real time the interaction becomes the more it might start directly correlating with minimum FPS complaints and "smoothness" (sort of how a small group of 3C people complain now), which might just create more problems than a "zero lag assuming great FPS" swing might solve.

[Drgnslyr221]

Nevermind.

[Mailman]

It seems like the more real time the interaction becomes the more it might start directly correlating with minimum FPS complaints and "smoothness" (sort of how a small group of 3C people complain now), which might just create more problems than a "zero lag assuming great FPS" swing might solve.

 

You may be right Buck.  Until we hear something definitive from PP we are all speculating somewhat.  I seem to recall a comments years+ ago that a true RTS swing (on a par with Links 2003) with no lag is just too much for PG1 to even start to cope with.  I also recall being shot down in flames year+ ago for raising the 'lag' issue in RTS.  Without doubt not an issue for some (possibly a silent and yet sizeable minority) or even many.  Was quite refreshing to see it being mentioned again but unless there is any kind of input from PP this will probably remain a pipedream for some (me inc)

[Buck]

@mailman:

 

Yeah, I'm all for the "no lag animation" if there's no big side effect on the rest of the game and if it doesn't sidetrack development of other, IMO way way more critical, updates, additions, fixes, etc.

[JCat04]

All I'll say about the swing animation quality/lag issue differences between JNPG and TGC 2 is that it is a subjective issue that's going to be impossible to settle in quantitative terms.  I had acclimated my swing to the lag and limited animation frames that are inherent in the current JNPG swing.   Once I started playing TGC 2, and getting what feels and looks to me (and I'm not saying it will be perceived by everyone this way) like both a more responsive and fluidly animated swing, I found it more difficult to adjust to that of JNPG.  

 

If I were to quit playing TGC 2 today, and go back to playing JNPG exclusively, I'm sure I would adapt to the difference in its swing eventually. It's certainly playable, but I don't see how anyone who uses any of the real time motion controlled swing interfaces in JNPG could say that it couldn't be make better by a higher resolution/fidelity swing animation that was more synchronous with the input device movement  We already know that new mo-capped swing animations will be a part of 'PG 2' and I'm eagerly awaiting their arrival and hoping that they turn out to be as much of a game changer here as they were for me in TGC 2!

[Buck]

I don't see how anyone who uses any of the real time motion controlled swing interfaces in JNPG could say that it couldn't be make better by a higher resolution/fidelity swing animation that was more synchronous with the input device movement

 

I would think the answer is:  The PG swing/animation works very well as it is and if you don't play TGC2 you don't know any different?

 

You sort of got to the heart of this in your own post (see below).

 

 

Once I started playing TGC 2.....

 

....I found it more difficult to adjust to that of JNPG.  

 

 

If you aren't a TGC2 player, as many here aren't (including many who've never tried it and simply don't care about it), there is no real reason to think there is an issue.

Ignorance can be bliss basically

[Mailman]

If you aren't a TGC2 player, as many here aren't (including many who've never tried it and simply don't care about it), there is no real reason to think there is an issue.

Ignorance can be bliss basically

 

Buck,  I don't have TGC2 but I did have TGC1 (currently uninstalled) and I did have (and still have) Links 2003 installed.  Links2K3 was/is a perfect sync between animation and mouse movement in RTS and one of its best attributes.  Some of us old timers still fondly this 1-2-1 match between the two and would love to to its deployment if it is possible in PG2.  Sadly 14 years on and this feature may be too much for PG.  Cannot comment on TGC2 as I don't have it. 

[Buck]

Buck,  I don't have TGC2 but I did have TGC1 (currently uninstalled) but I did have (and still have) Links 2003 installed.  Links2K3 was/is a perfect sync between animation and mouse movement in RTS and one of its best attributes.  Some of us old timers still fondly this 1-2-1 match between the two and would love to to its deployment if it is possible in PG2.  Sadly 14 years on and this feature may be too much for PG.  Cannot comment on TGC2 as I don't have it. 

 

Fair enough

 

Again - I'm not against it - I just cringe at the thought of this seemingly resource & time constrained development team spending too much time on the "lag" situation in lieu of effort being devoted to the zillions of other improvements, fixes and features we all want (and the game needs).

 

Anyhow - I've said enough on this - cheers

[JCat04]

I would think the answer is:  The PG swing/animation works very well as it is and if you don't play TGC2 you don't know any different?

 

You sort of got to the heart of this in your own post (see below).

 

 

 

 

If you aren't a TGC2 player, as many here aren't (including many who've never tried it and simply don't care about it), there is no real reason to think there is an issue.

Ignorance can be bliss basically

 

I was always aware of a lag, and an animation "rigidity" with JNPG, even before TGC 2 came along.  I simply became acclimated to it, but always knew it deserved to be better.  I understand that people prioritize their desires differently in golf games.  I'm in that group that puts a lot of emphasis on control synchronization/responsiveness.

 

TGC 2's added tempo component, even though it's a simplistic one, is another subtle aspect of the swing interface that TGC 2 has going for it that adds another desirable dimension to the game.  It's also not everyone's cup of tea, and I understand and respect that, but after 6 months of playing it (going back to the beta), it still gives me something desirable to manage and consider during the swing.  I'm one or those rare birds who appreciates the fact that I'll miss a green to the left because my tempo was perfect/fast.  It makes sense to me that if I got quick with my downswing, I'd be more inclined to pull the ball.

 

I'd still like to see more variable tempo and acceleration components be factored into the controller swing, but I don't know just how much is physically possible with it.

[M Rose]

maybe some more of the lighted courses

so us ding a lings that like to play night thunderstorm golf can have some fun

and at least some orange balls for some of these creations coming out are bound to have snow on them.

 

I'm all about the colored balls.

 

Maybe Volvik can do some kind of deal

[JoeF]

Is the "lag" you gentlemen are referring to the fact that the animation doesn't follow the downswing in real time?  Playing RTS-M (and from what I remember when testing RTS-C) there is no lag on the backswing, it's a 1-1 relationship between mouse/stick and the ani.  There is a pause in the ani when you downswing.  This is due to the fact that in order to keep players in a multiplayer round in visual "sync" with the real time calculations taking place - all players see the identical ball flight at the same time - the shot data of the person swinging has to be sent to the other players before the ball flight shows on-screen.  The small time increment that is required to send the data takes place between the time your downswing contacts the ball and the ani does its' downswing.  The fact that the ani does not follow the downswing has zero effect on the outcome of the actual swing.  Any perceived difficulty with this "lag" affecting their swing is strictly confined to the six inches between one's ears.

[JCat04]

Is the "lag" you gentlemen are referring to the fact that the animation doesn't follow the downswing in real time?  Playing RTS-M (and from what I remember when testing RTS-C) there is no lag on the backswing, it's a 1-1 relationship between mouse/stick and the ani.  There is a pause in the ani when you downswing.  This is due to the fact that in order to keep players in a multiplayer round in visual "sync" with the real time calculations taking place - all players see the identical ball flight at the same time - the shot data of the person swinging has to be sent to the other players before the ball flight shows on-screen.  The small time increment that is required to send the data takes place between the time your downswing contacts the ball and the ani does its' downswing.  The fact that the ani does not follow the downswing has zero effect on the outcome of the actual swing.  Any perceived difficulty with this "lag" affecting their swing is strictly confined to the six inches between one's ears.

 

 

My senses perceive it as a "lag", but maybe lack of 'sync' would be a better way to express it.  I use the animation as a barometer for modulating my swing and for whatever reason - and my quirky mental perception likely being the #1 factor - the animation seems to be not only more fluid in the swing motion, it "seems" to be more in sync with my stick motion in TGC 2 than it does in JNPG.   Again, this is a very subjective discussion, but I'm glad there's an unquantifiable quality to some aspects of golf games that give them each a unique flavor.

[Mailman]

Is the "lag" you gentlemen are referring to the fact that the animation doesn't follow the downswing in real time?  Playing RTS-M (and from what I remember when testing RTS-C) there is no lag on the backswing, it's a 1-1 relationship between mouse/stick and the ani.  There is a pause in the ani when you downswing.  This is due to the fact that in order to keep players in a multiplayer round in visual "sync" with the real time calculations taking place - all players see the identical ball flight at the same time - the shot data of the person swinging has to be sent to the other players before the ball flight shows on-screen.  The small time increment that is required to send the data takes place between the time your downswing contacts the ball and the ani does its' downswing.  The fact that the ani does not follow the downswing has zero effect on the outcome of the actual swing.  Any perceived difficulty with this "lag" affecting their swing is strictly confined to the six inches between one's ears.

 

I hear what you are stating and this brings back probably what was stated several times in the distant past.   Basically the game cannot cope with its built-in RTS limitations is what you are stating in a nutshell.

 

Going back to Links 2k3 there was/is none of this data sync issue playing multiplayer and the mouse movement sync'd with what I saw on my monitor.  

 

Just a pity this cannot happen in PG.  Are these reasons still going to be valid in PG2?  Input from dev team would be nice to know if the basic concept of the RTS swing method is going to remain as it is.  

[JoeF]

I hear what you are stating and this brings back probably what was stated several times in the distant past.   Basically the game cannot cope with its built-in RTS limitations is what you are stating in a nutshell.

 

Going back to Links 2k3 there was/is none of this data sync issue playing multiplayer and the mouse movement sync'd with what I saw on my monitor.  

 

Just a pity this cannot happen in PG.  Are these reasons still going to be valid in PG2?  Input from dev team would be nice to know if the basic concept of the RTS swing method is going to remain as it is.  

 

The reason there was no data sync issue in L2K3 is due to the fact that the ball flight and shot outcome was known to the game as soon as you struck the ball.  That is why there was asynchronous multiplay in Links, the shot data that was sent upon striking the ball contained all the necessary info to replicate the entire shot on your opponents screen.  

 

In JNPG, because it calculates all shot data in real time, the effects of swing path, clubface angle, offsets, side/back spin, wind and ground interactions are unknown to the game until they occur.  That's why there is no asynchronous play in JNPG.

 

Mike has stated that there will be asynchronous play in JNPG2.  Can't say if that means the swing will be totally synced but it does offer a glimmer of hope.