473 replies to this topic

[Parboy]

The PG developers will eventually split from the new owner over "creative differences". They will then start development of a new golf game,  fittingly titled "Imperfect Golf".  Remember, you heard it here first.

[JoeF]

Why would Trackman purchase PP/JNPG?

1) Tighter integration of Trackman launch monitor data and Trackman analysis software with Perfect Golf

2) Sales of Perfect Golf game software to owners of competitors' simulators. 

3) There is already a current market for the computer game that would bring in revenue.  A console version would also result in more game sales and increased revenue.

 

PG is already running on a number of different home golf simulators.  I doubt owners of these competing simulators would be very happy if their sim company suddenly blocked usage of Perfect Golf on their systems due to Trackman owning the game software.  Income from these sales will help offset Trackman's costs to further develop the software.

[mebby]

I sure hope TGC 2019 is good!!  

[Richard]

I sure hope TGC 2019 is good!!

Whoops, wrong website and forum. 😂😂

[trailblazergolf]

LOL--Richard--me to

[mebby]

Whoops, wrong website and forum.

Nope!!  I posted it exactly where I meant to!

[Buck]

3) There is already a current market for the computer game that would bring in revenue.  A console version would also result in more game sales and increased revenue.

The question is what does that current market look like?
 
It must be pretty niche if EA bailed on it after decades. Also, we shouldn't forget that the remaining other developer (HB/TGC) is constantly talking about the design and feature choices and tradeoffs they have to make to have the revenue numbers work in order to even have a viable business. That commentary is coming from a developer that, by all indications, has sold a lot more copies of TGC1/2 than PG.
 
And a console version?
 
We can forget that unless they are serious about a lot of investment.  The console world requires a whole level up of fit and finish and features.
PG1 or anything resembling it today would get absolutely destroyed in console reviews and tank, so PG2 would have to significantly change things.
 
 

PG is already running on a number of different home golf simulators.  I doubt owners of these competing simulators would be very happy if their sim company suddenly blocked usage of Perfect Golf on their systems due to Trackman owning the game software.  Income from these sales will help offset Trackman's costs to further develop the software.

"Competing Simulators" is the operative term there..

I agree they won't be happy, but do we think they'd make more money selling them a copy of software, even for several years in a row - or new Trackman hardware + software?

Those users paid a yearly fee for use of PG1.
Nothing about that relationship or payments guarantees it will continue indefinitely.

[Buck]

I made a Poll thread about pricing if you care to express how much you'd be willing to pay for a PG2 release from Trackman that caters to traditional input methods.

 

[wim1234]

all thsi is spceulation of the blind, sorry peeps, its totally useless.

you just need to be patient and wait for the official outcome, how hard can that be????

[Buck]

all thsi is spceulation of the blind, sorry peeps, its totally useless.

you just need to be patient and wait for the official outcome, how hard can that be????

 

Forum discussion is all of little value other than thinking out loud and seeing other viewpoints and angles on things.

 

Sorry to bother you with it.

Feel free to skip over these types of threads.

 

Cheers

[IanK]

Forum discussion is all of little value other than thinking out loud and seeing other viewpoints and angles on things.
 
Sorry to bother you with it.
Feel free to skip over these types of threads.
 
Cheers

Don't take it personally Buck.
The forum is on it's last legs due to the lack of information from those involved in the buy out. Perhaps that's want they want, I don't know. It's dying it's natural death and threads speculating on the price of a fictional game are pretty pointless.

[Buck]

Don't take it personally Buck.
The forum is on it's last legs due to the lack of information from those involved in the buy out. Perhaps that's want they want, I don't know. It's dying it's natural death and threads speculating on the price of a fictional game are pretty pointless.

 

Fair points Ian

I personally still enjoy the thought exercise and hearing from those that care to participate.

 

Anyone who doesn't - I understand that too - I would just ask they skip over the threads and not "drive by comment" on how pointless it all is.

 

I think we all understand that nothing we say here will have much meaning other than banter and conversation anyhow.  

No need to reiterate it to those that enjoy it for what its worth.

 

Anyhow - Cheers Ian

[JoeF]

The question is what does that current market look like?
 
It must be pretty niche if EA bailed on it after decades. Also, we shouldn't forget that the remaining other developer (HB/TGC) is constantly talking about the design and feature choices and tradeoffs they have to make to have the revenue numbers work in order to even have a viable business. That commentary is coming from a developer that, by all indications, has sold a lot more copies of TGC1/2 than PG.

 

EA has 8,800 employees

HB Studios has 80 employees

PP has 4 - 6 employees.  They can be a viable business with far fewer sales of their software than the others.    

 
And a console version?
 
We can forget that unless they are serious about a lot of investment.  The console world requires a whole level up of fit and finish and features.
PG1 or anything resembling it today would get absolutely destroyed in console reviews and tank, so PG2 would have to significantly change things.
 
 

As far as we know a console version is still in development.  What features, beyond a quality career mode and stats keeping, would a console version need, considering that the audience for a golf simulation would be golfers rather than hardcore gamers?  

 

"Competing Simulators" is the operative term there..

I agree they won't be happy, but do we think they'd make more money selling them a copy of software, even for several years in a row - or new Trackman hardware + software?

 

Due to the high cost of a Trackman sim set-up you may not see large numbers of sim owners ditching their current sim to purchase Trackman's hardware.  And the majority of potential sim owners aren't likely to be willing to pay Trackman prices when less expensive, good quality sims are available.  However, these players will still need game software and we already know PG has a good rep among sim users. Many are already moving to PG rather than renew other competing game software for their sim setups.  Trackman would be getting a piece of that action that they would otherwise not be getting.  They won't get rich but it would help offset development costs.

 

Those users paid a yearly fee for use of PG1.
Nothing about that relationship or payments guarantees it will continue indefinitely.

 

Would they stop paying a yearly fee for the use of PG2 (simply because it is now owned by Trackman) if it is the best sim game software available?

[Buck]

It must be pretty niche if EA bailed on it after decades. Also, we shouldn't forget that the remaining other developer (HB/TGC) is constantly talking about the design and feature choices and tradeoffs they have to make to have the revenue numbers work in order to even have a viable business. That commentary is coming from a developer that, by all indications, has sold a lot more copies of TGC1/2 than PG.
 
EA has 8,800 employees
HB Studios has 80 employees
PP has 4 - 6 employees.  They can be a viable business with far fewer sales of their software than the others.    

 
Think about what you're saying there Joe
 
We have people here indicating they want all the features, the updates, the online play - the whole package (and they barely want to pay much money sadly), but you're saying PP's small team size means its more likely for them to have a viable business with fewer sales.
 
That doesn't make much intuitive sense if "viable business" means competing on features and polish.
To provide what people want out of the game, they have to ramp up and have more people doing more work and invest more in the product, not try to run a lean ship.
 
Obviously this is moot now as it's Trackman deciding - so who knows.

[Buck]

Due to the high cost of a Trackman sim set-up you may not see large numbers of sim owners ditching their current sim to purchase Trackman's hardware.  And the majority of potential sim owners aren't likely to be willing to pay Trackman prices when less expensive, good quality sims are available.  However, these players will still need game software and we already know PG has a good rep among sim users. Many are already moving to PG rather than renew other competing game software for their sim setups.  Trackman would be getting a piece of that action that they would otherwise not be getting.  They won't get rich but it would help offset development costs.

 
Fair points - Maybe Trackman does indeed want a piece of the software action on all Sim hardware and not just their own.
 
I could see that.  
I am not sure how that will help a 3C/MS/RTS-C PC user though..

[Buck]

As far as we know a console version is still in development.  What features, beyond a quality career mode and stats keeping, would a console version need, considering that the audience for a golf simulation would be golfers rather than hardcore gamers?  

Honestly - we know so absolutely little about anything in regard to PG (1 or 2) on Console it honestly isn't even worth contemplating right now.
Other than fleeting mentions a few times on the forum from Andrew & Mike, there is literally no reason to believe PG will ever be on console.

The console world is a whole other bag of different concerns and costs and target market, etc.

[JoeF]

 
Fair points - Maybe Trackman does indeed want a piece of the software action on all Sim hardware and not just their own.
 
I could see that.  
I am not sure how that will help a 3C/MS/RTS-C PC user though..

 

Because we are using the same game software as the sim owners.  The difference is they use simulator hardware to get the shot data from their swings and input it to a computer running the PG game software.  We use mice or controllers to create the shot data into a computer running the same PG game software.  Any advances in shot data integration, in conjunction with even more refined real world ground and air physics, that Trackman can bring to the software for the sim users flows to us as well.  

[Buck]

Because we are using the same game software as the sim owners.  The difference is they use simulator hardware to get the shot data from their swings and input it to a computer running the PG game software.  We use mice or controllers to create the shot data into a computer running the same PG game software.  Any advances in shot data integration, in conjunction with even more refined real world ground and air physics, that Trackman can bring to the software for the sim users flows to us as well.

Yes I understand all that part.
What I mean is I don't see the compelling benefit to Trackman to bother continuing to support all the non sim input methods.

Think of the large optimizations, code reductions and testing and implementation benefits of simplifying the game and UI and all efforts around one input method - the Sim - that pays the big bills with large annual fees and expensive hardware.

[jmk59]

Any advances in shot data integration, in conjunction with even more refined real world ground and air physics, that Trackman can bring to the software for the sim users flows to us as well.   JoeF

 

This is what I would want to happen, as well.  At some point, maybe 3C will get a full Club-Ball collision model and not just a launcher.  The equations aren't overly complicated.

 

Buck - all those Sim supporters have to come from somewhere.  Are they former PC users that gravitate to more expensive toys?

[JoeF]

 
Think about what you're saying there Joe
 
We have people here indicating they want all the features, the updates, the online play - the whole package (and they barely want to pay much money sadly), but you're saying PP's small team size means its more likely for them to have a viable business with fewer sales.
 
That doesn't make much intuitive sense if "viable business" means competing on features and polish.
To provide what people want out of the game, they have to ramp up and have more people doing more work and invest more in the product, not try to run a lean ship.
 
Obviously this is moot now as it's Trackman deciding - so who knows.

 

I'm saying that a small company with low overhead can make a golf sim game (that caters to a niche market of "the golfer who plays pc golf") and make it a viable business with fewer sales because they don't need huge sales to make a profit.  EA and HB both spent a goodly amount of money to create their games.  Neither can compete against JNPG when it comes to simulating the game of golf on a computer.  They may have more bells and whistles but they don't have the underlying essence of the game.  Money wrongly spent, perhaps?