473 replies to this topic

[Buck]

Buck - all those Sim supporters have to come from somewhere.  Are they former PC users that gravitate to more expensive toys?

That's a great question!
I have no idea...

Could be! I've played virtual golf since the early 90's and never had a single inkling to get a Sim. Conversely, I'd imagine there are real life golfers who've never played any virtual golf but would like a sweet Sim setup to stay fresh and explore many real world and fictional courses. And certainly I'm sure there is overlap, of course.

I have no idea on the numbers though, do you?

Seems amazing to me someone in 2018 would be going from, say, 3 click golf to all of the sudden wanting to pump $10k-$40k (no idea if that's accurate) into a dedicated space/hardware/etc to play with real clubs. Anything is possible I guess!

 

A somewhat good analogue for this discussion is real world pilots (of which I am one).  Sim users in that niche who are looking for professional caliber training aids, don't even bat an eye at traditional setups and input methods with P3D and XP11, but to your point, they do use the same software.  It's a little different though as everyone has to provide an input method of their own that the software is raw interpreting.  It's very low overhead for the software developers on that side of things. The hardware you bring either works correctly or it doesn't and the GUI is the same for basically everyone, save for additional Sim station monitors for real world flight time use (approach practice usually).

[Buck]

I'm saying that a small company with low overhead can make a golf sim game (that caters to a niche market of "the golfer who plays pc golf") and make it a viable business with fewer sales because they don't need huge sales to make a profit.  EA and HB both spent a goodly amount of money to create their games.  Neither can compete against JNPG when it comes to simulating the game of golf on a computer.  They may have more bells and whistles but they don't have the underlying essence of the game.  Money wrongly spent, perhaps?  

What you're describing there really necessitates high pricing and/or very long deliverable times on updates.

A small team with low sales has to give something away to function as you described.

I guess PG fit into the latter category (long time between updates due to small team).
They also had to punt on even doing a new Avatar due to prohibitive costs - also a bummer.

Ultimately they sold to Trackman, so how well was that small team, low overhead, plan really working?
(only they know)

[JoeF]

Yes I understand all that part.
What I mean is I don't see the compelling benefit to Trackman to bother continuing to support all the non sim input methods.

Think of the large optimizations, code reductions and testing and implementation benefits of simplifying the game and UI and all efforts around one input method - the Sim - that pays the big bills with large annual fees and expensive hardware.

 

Why would Trackman want to stop sales to non-sim game users?  They lose a market and the additional money it would generate on top of the sim income.  That would seem to be poor business decision.

[jmk59]

Seems amazing to me someone in 2018 would be going from, say, 3 click golf to all of the sudden wanting to pump $10k-$40k (no idea if that's accurate) into a dedicated space/hardware/etc to play with real clubs. Anything is possible I guess!

You're describing me - minus the $10-$40k.

 

Go over to the OGT website and look in the Sim Room forum (lots of pics).  Some are better that just the garage quickie.

[JoeF]

What you're describing there really necessitates high pricing and/or very long deliverable times on updates.

A small team with low sales has to give something away to function as you described.

I guess PG fit into the latter category (long time between updates due to small team).
They also had to punt on even doing a new Avatar due to prohibitive costs - also a bummer.

Ultimately they sold to Trackman, so how well was that small team, low overhead, plan really working?
(only they know)

 

Tackman bought them.  I'd say, "very well".  

[Buck]

Tackman bought them.  I'd say, "very well".  

 

I have no idea how you can say that with any sense of conviction honestly.

A "sale" could be to a struggling business and is every bit as likely as "we are booming and they had to have us"..

 

Was it the sale of a fully furnished mansion in a great neighborhood or a garage sale of leftover parts down on "the ave"?

[Buck]

You're describing me - minus the $10-$40k.

 

Go over to the OGT website and look in the Sim Room forum (lots of pics).  Some are better that just the garage quickie.

 

That's great John!

 

I didn't say there weren't all types of users that originate from all corners of the spectrum.

I just have no idea how we make any educated guesses on how often that type of user converts or really any sense of the numbers for this at all.

 

Do you?

[Buck]

Why would Trackman want to stop sales to non-sim game users?  They lose a market and the additional money it would generate on top of the sim income.  That would seem to be poor business decision.

 

How much income do you think they'd be foregoing?

PP wasn't even able to afford to do a new avatar (which I think was low 6 figures?  anyone recall the discussion on here)

[Buck]

You guys all seem to think I don't want there to be a PG2 for all of us.

 

That couldn't be further from the truth.

 

I just find it more useful to look at this objectively from 30,000 feet and see what is likely and what makes sense and how I'd be thinking about it if I were a business like Trackman.That's obviously subjective analysis, no question.

 

I would LOVE to log on and be so F'in wrong about it all!

 

I'd love to have Mike smugly punch a hole in me on here and make fun of me for being a dope and so wrong on everything and a total moron..

I will happily take all the ribbing, all the "told ya so's" and all the mocking...

 

You know why?

It would mean I'd soon be playing a SWEET new version of Perfect Golf!  

[Richard]

[quote name="Buck" post="155147" timestamp=


I'd love to have Mike smugly punch a hole in me on here and make fun of me for being a dope and so wrong on everything and a total moron..[/quote]

Can I be a substitute for Mike?

Sorry, I couldn’t resist. 😃

[Buck]

Can I be a substitute for Mike?
Sorry, I couldn’t resist.

 

Only if you're also announcing the PG2 release at the same time...

[Richard]

Only if you're also announcing the PG2 release at the same time...

Well hell that’s easy. The corporate answer is SOON.

Geez Louise isn’t that obvious. 😂😂

[grumpter]

One question I keep pondering is how likely is it at some point TM decides to make It a product only available to TM users? Why allow their product to give value to the competition?

[frank70]

"Nothing is off the table"

 

After that we heard nothing.

 

That probably means that Trackman hasn't made a decision yet.

 

If they indeed cancel a console/PC PG2 i see no benefit of hiding the fact. What would they gain to keep us in limbo? JNPG makes probably not much money on PC right now. So telling us the truth wouldn't hurt income.

 

The truth probably is that PG2 for PC is really in question. If Trackman sees the opportunity to make money with that - why shouldn't they do it? It won't hurt their simulator sales imo.

[footslogger]

The only thing that keeps me a bit hopeful is the fact that PG1 was clearly a labour of love for Mike and Andrew.  I doubt whether the game in its present state is all they envisaged and I dare say they would like to make of it a more fitting tribute to their passion and skill if circumstances (specifically, the Trackman directors) allow.  I don't expect PG2 to happen but will be pleasantly surprised if it does. 

[Dazmaniac]

What's going on...... for me, time to quit this place.

 

Hope PG2 does one day see the light of day, maybe it will release alongside the 2020 Olympics with the Tokyo golf course included as a stock venue, lol.

 

Have fun guys.

[IanK]

What's going on...... for me, time to quit this place.
 
Hope PG2 does one day see the light of day, maybe it will release alongside the 2020 Olympics with the Tokyo golf course included as a stock venue, lol.
 
Have fun guys.

I feel the same Daz. The owners of the game can't be bothered so why should we?
There is nothing to talk about anymore and I'm fed up with endless speculation.

[Drgnslyr221]

Seriously considering going back to Links 2003 at this point. It's clear that PC golf is on its deathbed and TGC is the closest we have to a dedicated golf game. If that's the case count me out.

[MERACE]

I feel the same Daz. The owners of the game can't be bothered so why should we?
There is nothing to talk about anymore and I'm fed up with endless speculation.

It would be nice to have Mike or Andrew post something now....even along the lines of: "Hang on guys, we'll have some more news to share about PG2 "SOON"." 

 

 

-MERACE

[✠ davef ✠]

It would be nice to have Mike or Andrew post something now....even along the lines of: "Hang on guys, we'll have some more news to share about PG2 "SOON"." 

 

 

-MERACE

that right there is already old news. they did that and never followed up on it.

post 120, and have been some since to just not spending any of my time to look.

http://www.perfectpa...-be-sold/page-6