159 replies to this topic

[Kablammo11]

3 Clicker here: Frankly, I do not care one bit for my computer golf games to be about skill, about muscle coordination, rhythm, anything physical, personal prowess or talent. The physicality behind propelling a computer golf ball is completely lost on me.

I'm much more interested in strategy, course management and figuring out the best "firing solution" for each situation that the game throws at me. This btw is also a bit out of respect for the real game.

 

I realize that many around here absolutely crave little, harmonically jerky hand or finger movements to be the prime divider between players and the ultimate path to success. That's okay, fine, to each his own and if they are happy, I'm happy for them.

I'm just popping in on behalf of the many others who do not mind at all that this golf game also can be a disembodied, unphysical, dumbed down provider of constant fun for all of us who are brave enough to suck at it and who don't really worry about that too much.

 

PG may indulge the elitists as much as they can, but the question needs to be politely asked if indulging the hard core 5 percent of fierce swing purists - at the detriment of us other no-hopers and more general game issues - is a justified investment of precious developer time at this stage. I sometimes feel a bit angry at the preferred treatment they receive while other areas requiring some urgent involvement are left untended. Choices need to be made, of course, and I must not except every choice to go my way. Still...

[frank70]

3 Clicker here: Frankly, I do not care one bit for my computer golf games to be about skill, about muscle coordination, rhythm, anything physical, personal prowess or talent. The physicality behind propelling a computer golf ball is completely lost on me.

I'm much more interested in strategy, course management and figuring out the best "firing solution" for each situation that the game throws at me. This btw is also a bit out of respect for the real game.

 

I realize that many around here absolutely crave little, harmonically jerky hand or finger movements to be the prime divider between players and the ultimate path to success. That's okay, fine, to each his own and if they are happy, I'm happy for them.

I'm just popping in on behalf of the many others who do not mind at all that this golf game also can be a disembodied, unphysical, dumbed down provider of constant fun for all of us who are brave enough to suck at it and who don't really worry about that too much.

 

PG may indulge the elitists as much as they can, but the question needs to be politely asked if indulging the hard core 5 percent of fierce swing purists - at the detriment of us other no-hopers and more general game issues - is a justified investment of precious developer time at this stage. I sometimes feel a bit angry at the preferred treatment they receive while other areas requiring some urgent involvement are left untended. Choices need to be made, of course, and I must not except every choice to go my way. Still...

We have 5 different difficulty levels. It's safe to say, that you have not to think much in the beginner level. So you can play grip-it-and-rip-it with Perfect Golf. But if PP claims to make a real golf sim (which it is imho), there has to be room to discuss realism in every form - be it swing mechanics, physics or scores.

 

Dev time: I am pretty sure that it isn't a big deal programming wise to reduce the snap penalty or increase the penalty of the MS. I would think that there are certain variables for deviation that can be changed rather easily. Correct me if i am wrong, Mike. 

[Mike Jones]

K11 I don't think we pander to the elite at all, we have 5 difficulty levels and soon to be the real time swing for both controllers and mouse and pander to all of them equally I would say. It's inevitable that when new methods are added they get the lion's share of the time until they are working properly.

 

I don't think adding different swing types is elitist, not everyone wants to play the way you might want to and non 'hardcore' gamers have been hoping for a decent controller swing for ages. They will soon have one. 

[Greensboronclion]

When I started this thread I kind of thought it would dwarf to where it has gone and the argument continues but one thing we must all keep in mind and that is the game needs to be accessible to all the masses and to do that you need all the swing types we have.  We have the guy or gal who likes to sit on the sofa and use his Xbox360 controller and play on his 65 inch TV and that is good and we have the players that like the new modern MS and soon to be RTS swing and like to sit in front of their PC and Whether a hard or easy sim just enjoy that comfort of being immersed in the game.  We also have the player that likes the 3C style for as Mike said the simplicity of it but we also have a lot of players who for some medical or age reason cant swing the mouse and are really comfortable just using the 3C and it allows them to continue.  We had a lot of players in Links that were well up there in age and the 3C was their friend for many years and even tho at this time I am able to play the new swings at some point I might have to go to 3C or another simplified version to keep playing.  The fact is there is a lot of crying about which is better but the truth is they are all great because they all allow us to choose and they keep a lot of our friends who play this game in the game and that is what the game is really all about.

[Kablammo11]

We have 5 different difficulty levels. It's safe to say, that you have not to think much in the beginner level. So you can play grip-it-and-rip-it with Perfect Golf. But if PP claims to make a real golf sim (which it is imho), there has to be room to discuss realism in every form - be it swing mechanics, physics or scores.

 

I find the notion a bit too dismissive that beginners do not need attention or improvements. There has to be room to discuss realism - true, absolutely, no contest from me and you are welcome to it. But what of equal room to discuss loser-golf rip-it style gameplay? Is that already done and dusted? Is there any point mentioning that aspect at all, it it keeps falling on deaf ears and gets aggressively ignored for months? Guess I'm just jealous of the attention you advanced finger and wrist athletes are getting at the moment (No emojis from me, not ever, but imagine a cheeky one here)

 

There will be several new and exciting features surrounding swinging coming soon, but none of them will concern the 3-Clickers - though some elements of these actually very well could. I do not consider the current swing meter, its location, the in-game GUI and the ergonomic/intuitive allocation of functions to be anywhere near perfect. My grade to PP is "Can do better". Yet I get a sensation that somehow this might or might not be dealt with, say, during the 5th update after the official release. 

 

Priorities are what they are, resources are scarce, opinions differ. Mister G above, lots to like in your summation. All swing methods are great, even those that should not be bubbling sadly on the back burner.

[MimicPS]

I understand the well-founded theory that one of the swing methods should be the most accessible, familiar and well-tried methodology to appeal to an existing market and to cater for those who now use different input methods such as controllers to play. Mike and the development team are right to have stuck with that if they feel it would limit people taking the game up, and that adding further nuances would put people off. It is vital that the overall player community is a broad as possible. I hope that my observations weren't taken as criticism but as a suggestion for a viable alternative, although one which would break that familiarity and so probably unwise.

 

I would also say it is vital, however, to keep a close eye on all statistical analysis that PP collect and bear in mind larger-field tournaments at various levels to see where and how disparities can be, at least in part, alleviated so as to minimize (though probably never eradicate completely) the conclusions that some will have on the ease or otherwise of respective swing methods.

[Golden Bear]

Speaking of the swing methods I have a question to ask.  When is the ability to type in the main lobby going to be added to the controller swing?  I tried this swing on the day it was released.  But as soon as I realized this major problem it was a no go to use immediately.  I do hope that this will be rectified as controller swing is my preferred method of play.

[Justin9926]

Speaking of the swing methods I have a question to ask.  When is the ability to type in the main lobby going to be added to the controller swing?  I tried this swing on the day it was released.  But as soon as I realized this major problem it was a no go to use immediately.  I do hope that this will be rectified as controller swing is my preferred method of play.

I know this doesn't answer your question. But I'm unable to reach the keyboard on my laptop and I purchased one of these off of eBay. A mini wireless keyboard.It's something you Could use till they get around to the controller.

 

http://www.ebay.com/...vgAAOSwBahVFM~d

 

Justin

[Acrilix]

I know this doesn't answer your question. But I'm unable to reach the keyboard on my laptop and I purchased one of these off of eBay. A mini wireless keyboard.It's something you Could use till they get around to the controller.

 

http://www.ebay.com/...vgAAOSwBahVFM~d

 

Justin

It doesn't matter if you can reach your keyboard or not. When using a controller you cannot use a keyboard.

[JOHNDALY91]

Please do not make 3-click easier on tour-pro settings, I enjoy the challenge. Like many have stated there are several difficulty levels to choose from.Another thing to consider, until swing methods are locked during a round we cannot truly compare stats. Some may use both during their rounds.

[theclubpro]

ok i finally got around to trying out the motion swing.im a 3 clicker by trade.i play pro/min/min....i find it very tuff to find fairway/green on this mode/setting..  - <--- I find if u miss the snap by this little margin(maybe just a tad more) left/right ur toast..so i decided to try out the motion swing on the controller.i read a few post up were they though that 3click was easier on the short game and motion was easier on the long game..from my 20 mins playing took me 5mins just to learn how to swing as there is no tutorial,(if there is i dont know where it is)i find that the motion swingers got it way easier than us 3 clickers.after i figured out how to make the club move, i found it next to impossible to go offline ,it more less went straight to the flag each time, i was intentionally missing the snap just to see what would happen, not much still went more less straight.but as it is right now my method for the time being will be 3click due to the horrendous glitches with this mode, more less unplayable to me.. black screens, i chose a club by mistake and hit "a", i found no way to back back and do over,,aiming is a disaster,the aiming flag will move from 200 to 500 yards and sometimes just disappear..  find it hard as heck just to aim.but overall it is easier to hit on this mode vs 3click. ill try motion with the mouse to see how that goes ,haven't tried that either.

[mebby]

ok i finally got around to trying out the motion swing.im a 3 clicker by trade.i play pro/min/min....i find it very tuff to find fairway/green on this mode/setting.. - <--- I find if u miss the snap by this little margin(maybe just a tad more) left/right ur toast..so i decided to try out the motion swing on the controller.i read a few post up were they though that 3click was easier on the short game and motion was easier on the long game..from my 20 mins playing took me 5mins just to learn how to swing as there is no tutorial,(if there is i dont know where it is)i find that the motion swingers got it way easier than us 3 clickers.after i figured out how to make the club move, i found it next to impossible to go offline ,it more less went straight to the flag each time, i was intentionally missing the snap just to see what would happen, not much still went more less straight.but as it is right now my method for the time being will be 3click due to the horrendous glitches with this mode, more less unplayable to me.. black screens, i chose a club by mistake and hit "a", i found no way to back back and do over,,aiming is a disaster,the aiming flag will move from 200 to 500 yards and sometimes just disappear.. find it hard as heck just to aim.but overall it is easier to hit on this mode vs 3click. ill try motion with the mouse to see how that goes ,haven't tried that either.

Try MS with a mouse using the same 3C difficulty settings and then let us know what your experience was. The current controller swing is basically a wonky 3C swing. It was nothing to do with MS.

[Greensboronclion]

ok i finally got around to trying out the motion swing.im a 3 clicker by trade.i play pro/min/min....i find it very tuff to find fairway/green on this mode/setting..  - <--- I find if u miss the snap by this little margin(maybe just a tad more) left/right ur toast..so i decided to try out the motion swing on the controller.i read a few post up were they though that 3click was easier on the short game and motion was easier on the long game..from my 20 mins playing took me 5mins just to learn how to swing as there is no tutorial,(if there is i dont know where it is)i find that the motion swingers got it way easier than us 3 clickers.after i figured out how to make the club move, i found it next to impossible to go offline ,it more less went straight to the flag each time, i was intentionally missing the snap just to see what would happen, not much still went more less straight.but as it is right now my method for the time being will be 3click due to the horrendous glitches with this mode, more less unplayable to me.. black screens, i chose a club by mistake and hit "a", i found no way to back back and do over,,aiming is a disaster,the aiming flag will move from 200 to 500 yards and sometimes just disappear..  find it hard as heck just to aim.but overall it is easier to hit on this mode vs 3click. ill try motion with the mouse to see how that goes ,haven't tried that either.

As Mebby stated use a mouse and I guarantee you that won't happen and by the way the real hard part of MS starts around the green and you will find that out real quick.

[highfade]

Please do not make 3-click easier on tour-pro settings, I enjoy the challenge. Like many have stated there are several difficulty levels to choose from.Another thing to consider, until swing methods are locked during a round we cannot truly compare stats. Some may use both during their rounds.

 

Hi, I also enjoy the challenge but do feel the long, short, scrambling and putting must be on the same difficulty level. If it means leaving the long game super difficult on Tourpro and bringing the other up to that same level, so be it. I have no problem dropping to an easier level.

 

How does a regulation par 4 looks like? Normally it's fairway, green and two putts. Mine is 90%, way into the rough, play out, pitch to a couple of feet and sink the putt or in the off change that I do hit the fairway, I miss the green even so far as on the other side of the bunker but manage to flop and putt for par...

[frank70]

Hi, I also enjoy the challenge but do feel the long, short, scrambling and putting must be on the same difficulty level. If it means leaving the long game super difficult on Tourpro and bringing the other up to that same level, so be it. I have no problem dropping to an easier level.

 

How does a regulation par 4 looks like? Normally it's fairway, green and two putts. Mine is 90%, way into the rough, play out, pitch to a couple of feet and sink the putt or in the off change that I do hit the fairway, I miss the green even so far as on the other side of the bunker but manage to flop and putt for par...

I am with you on that one. We have to look on every aspect of the game - not only to the overall scores. Putting and short game/scrambling is too easy. The stats show it. Short game/scrambling isn't mainly because of the swing mechanic/penalty - it is more about the physics. It is unrealistic how we can /spin/stop the ball out of the rough and out of bunkers.

 

With putting as i said before it is more about the whole process. You have to read the green find the right line and then hit it straight. With mouse swing hitting a putt straight is far from easy. You have to be very precise with your mouse movement otherwise the ball goes left or right considerably. Only a small mishit means that you will miss a straight 8-10 footer. The swing mechanic is difficult enough (i can only really talk about MS). The real problem is, that we cannot misread a putt. The BLI doesn't of course show the exact line, but it shows every subtle little break absolutely 100 %. These tiny breaks are very difficult to see in real life. Sometimes if you have a 15-footer it moves a little, little to the right for a distance of maybe 5 feet. But you read it as being straight .....  result is, that you will miss the putt. This happens to the pros quite often too. But this element simply isn't in the game - you cannot misread a putt. Imho this leads to the insane low putting statistics. It would be a mistake, if only the difficulty of the putting mechanic would be ramped up to get realistic statistics. A sim solution would be, trying to implement a realistic process of green reading (fuzzy BLI, green reading view with better textures .....etc.)

 

All in all it would be the best if:

• make the long game for MS a tiny little bit harder
• make the long game for 3-click a little bit easier
• fix the physics of the shots around the green (more roll, way less spin)
• revamp the green reading process

 

Maybe the scores on average for MS would go up by 2 or 3 strokes per round and for 3C by 1-2 strokes per round. But i think this would be a way to get scores in a sim like, realistic manner (24 putts per round simply aren't sim). It would even out the difficulty of the different shots and probably even out the difficulty between MS and 3-click.

[highfade]

 Yes, putting is a tough one to make more difficult.

 

I never use the grid and what I like about the BLI is that it's fast, you just run it up to the hole and back and you're ready to go. I would hate to view the putt from every conceivable angle to get my read.

 

My stats from Links on Pro level with scoring average of 69.  I'm missing the white knuckle tension standing over a 4 footer what we have in Links. It's the same with playing in the wind, with the locked down wind indicator there is no 2nd guessing yourself as to what the wind is doing.

 

[frank70]

@highfade

 

These putting stats look better than in PG. 36,9 % from 11-20 is actually a pretty realistic number. 92% between 0-10 is only 5 % too high. I am pretty sure that we have higher conversion percentages in PG.

[frank70]

One or two other aspect of scoring:

 

Right now we are playing relatively tough conditions over at OGT. Wind is never calm - always breezy and at least two rounds gusty. And we are playing stimps of 13 and 14. Which is absolutely okay to keep the scores in check.

 

When the short game and putting would be harder in a way that the conversion rates are nearer to real life this would mean as well that we could then play under more realistic conditions. Calm, stimp 12, is a relative realistic setup when you look at the conditions of real PGA tournaments. So all in all we would probably see similar scores as right now under easier/normal conditions. And if the course is setup really hard, par would be a brilliant score. Sounds right to me, cause it would open up a lot more setup options (soft, slower greens) as we have now.

 

And i think that the scoring overall will get a tad lower with time. Experience with the game will do that. You can see that if you look at the scores of some tour members at OGT. They reduced their average scores by a lot in a time span of only a few weeks.

[DennisHarris]

One or two other aspect of scoring:

 

Right now we are playing relatively tough conditions over at OGT. Wind is never calm - always breezy and at least two rounds gusty. And we are playing stimps of 13 and 14. Which is absolutely okay to keep the scores in check.

 

When the short game and putting would be harder in a way that the conversion rates are nearer to real life this would mean as well that we could then play under more realistic conditions. Calm, stimp 12, is a relative realistic setup when you look at the conditions of real PGA tournaments. So all in all we would probably see similar scores as right now under easier/normal conditions. And if the course is setup really hard, par would be a brilliant score. Sounds right to me, cause it would open up a lot more setup options (soft, slower greens) as we have now.

 

And i think that the scoring overall will get a tad lower with time. Experience with the game will do that. You can see that if you look at the scores of some tour members at OGT. They reduced their average scores by a lot in a time span of only a few weeks.

LOL!  Now you opened the bag of worms.  Get ready my friends, the dung is hitting the rotary oscillator.  I will voice my opinion unrestrained and in a not so polite way.   Firstly I have never seen 10 tournaments in a row on the real pga tour have 50% breezy or higher winds.  I mean never!!!!  Not even the vaulted Open Championship in recent years.  Where is the realism to that small but important fact.  Wind stats on the PGA ever considered.       No! Not ever!  Never mentioned. A few elite players (no names used) because you know who you are, have complained about unrealistic scoring.   Again our Dev team said the real pga tours did not play stimps below 13.  Raise the difficulty and stats will come more into line with the PGA stats.  That philosophy I have no problem with because that is in line with the actual PGA tour.   

Anyway the complaining to this day still continues on and on about stats this stats that of the PGA.  (News flash!  This is a game my friends).   Whom was it that screamed bring the scoring even more in line with the REAL ​ pga tour stats.  Elite dudes!  So the OGT and PG staff went to stimp 13 and 14 added to the wind already used and made it harder.  Who get catered to here? 

This is fact:   every tournament change of PG or OGT has been made to satisfy the elite players.  What have us averaged guys received?  Yet not a Thing.  Not one stinking thing.  If this very glaring fact is not an prime example of pandering to the elite PG players -I'll kiss your southern end while your facing north. No sir the blame falls squarely at the feet of a few elite players.   They are screaming the loudest and getting pandered to, without question.   Not anyone else.  This issue is dividing this community and I'm backing it up.  Facts are Facts folks.    

 

I would like this request:  Bring wind stats into line with PGA stats.  This is a game for everyone, after all.  Everyone (me) can then not complain about pandering to the elite.

I'm out!  I'm beginning to sound like Donald Trump!

[Mike Jones]

Just to make it clear, what the OGT choose to do with their tournaments is nothing to do with us. It's their tour to run how they like.