159 replies to this topic

[Greensboronclion]

Dennis that was a pretty good speech and I tend to agree but again I just hit what they give me but it is tiresome lately as every round seems to be in a hurricane and I used to play in tournaments on the Am level IRL back in the day and have never experienced this much wind in my life and not even now living at the beach.  The problem is that there are a handful of players here that are just destroying the course everytime they play and if you don't have the stimp up and the wind a howling they will kill it even more.  The team at OGT has done the best they can to control it but it is what it is.  I look at the Pro PGA and I am a -5 handicap and I go against someone who is one of these players who is a -6 and I and the rest of us are toast and cant compete.  If I shoot a 67 for me that's a great round but after the -5 I am even and the -6 guy well he shoots 62 in his sleep and is so far out in front that what begins to happen is you lose interest and that is what is happening right now.  We need just an elite league for these guys so the rest of us can at least have a chance and feel like we are playing for something other than middle of the pack each week.  Just my 2 cents.

[clubcaptain]

LOL!  Now you opened the bag of worms.  Get ready my friends, the dung is hitting the rotary oscillator.  I will voice my opinion unrestrained and in a not so polite way.   Firstly I have never seen 10 tournaments in a row on the real pga tour have 50% breezy or higher winds.  I mean never!!!!  Not even the vaulted Open Championship in recent years.  Where is the realism to that small but important fact.  Wind stats on the PGA ever considered.       No! Not ever!  A few elite players (no names used) because you know who you are, have complained about unrealistic scoring.   Again our Dev team said the real pga tours did not play stimps below 13.  Raise the difficulty and stats will come more into line with the PGA stats.  That I have no problem with that.  That is in line with the actual PGA tour.   The other wind over 50% of the time on top of the stimp numbers I have a problem with. 

Anyway the complaining continues on and on about stats this stats that.  Whom was it that screamed bring the scoring even more in line with the REAL ​ pga tour stats.   So the OGT staff went to stimp 13 and 14 and then harder yet we already hand wind difficulty. 

This is fact:   every tournament change PG or OGT has been made is to satisfy the elite players.  What have us averaged guys received?   If this is fact is not an prime example of pandering to the elite PG players -I'll kiss your southern end while your facing north. No sir the blame falls squarely at the feet of a few elite players.   Not anyone else.  This very fact is what is dividing this community and I'm backing it up with fact.   

 

I would like this request:  Bring wind stats into line with PGA stats.  This is a game not the PGA.   This way everyone (me) can not complain about pandering to the elite.

I'm out!  I'm beginning to sound like Donald Trump!

What on earth for ! That's too broad a statement. Golf is not a American game believe it or not. It's a world game. Tour organisers have to be flexible and provide a test under all conditions.

I'm an average palyer and I'm with you in being frustrated at the prevalence of high winds. Rarely is the wind calm and rarely are soft conditions used. That's not a fault. It's just a lack of variety being provided. And don't get me started on high winds and hard conditions. Rounds like this are just a lottery for me. Despite that I accept them as part of the overall picture.

If wind speed on the USPGA Tour were prevalent we'd all be playing target golf in blazing sunshine frequently . Then the elite players really would go to town and the game would become very boring .

[frank70]

LOL!  Now you opened the bag of worms.  Get ready my friends, the dung is hitting the rotary oscillator.  I will voice my opinion unrestrained and in a not so polite way.   Firstly I have never seen 10 tournaments in a row on the real pga tour have 50% breezy or higher winds.  I mean never!!!!  Not even the vaulted Open Championship in recent years.  Where is the realism to that small but important fact.  Wind stats on the PGA ever considered.       No! Not ever!  A few elite players (no names used) because you know who you are, have complained about unrealistic scoring.   Again our Dev team said the real pga tours did not play stimps below 13.  Raise the difficulty and stats will come more into line with the PGA stats.  That I have no problem with that.  That is in line with the actual PGA tour.   The other wind over 50% of the time on top of the stimp numbers I have a problem with. 

Anyway the complaining continues on and on about stats this stats that.  Whom was it that screamed bring the scoring even more in line with the REAL ​ pga tour stats.   So the OGT staff went to stimp 13 and 14 and then harder yet we already hand wind difficulty. 

This is fact:   every tournament change PG or OGT has been made is to satisfy the elite players.  What have us averaged guys received?   If this is fact is not an prime example of pandering to the elite PG players -I'll kiss your southern end while your facing north. No sir the blame falls squarely at the feet of a few elite players.   Not anyone else.  This very fact is what is dividing this community and I'm backing it up with fact.   

 

I would like this request:  Bring wind stats into line with PGA stats.  This is a game not the PGA.   This way everyone (me) can not complain about pandering to the elite.

I'm out!  I'm beginning to sound like Donald Trump!

I think you misunderstood what i meant. It would be great if we could play with less/realistic wind. I think the wind settings and stimp settings are used to keep the scores in check. The stimps of 13 or 14 haven't had much influence on the overall scores or the putting statistics.

 

It i was in charge i wouldn't like winning scores of -44 on the highest difficulty level of a simulation game. I would want it to be around -20 for a tournament on a normally difficult course under normal conditions. It would be a compliment to the game, because no other game so far achieved that kind of realism. And i think that it can be achieved by looking up some elements of the game that are not quite realistic. The game shouldn't be made harder in a artificial way. But if it gets a little bit more difficult because we cannot scramble with a over 80 % rate or only take 24 putts per round, i would absolutely support that.

 

Maybe it would be good, if Mike or Andrew would chime in and give their opinion of scoring in general and their feel of the state of realism of some elements of the game (chipping, flopping, sand saves, putting). Then this discussion can end.

[DennisHarris]

LOL!   Europe and other parts of the world have a PGA Tour.  Do they not?   I do not see a wide brush with that statement.  Yes it is a world game governed by the R & A and USGA ... oh and the PGA.  Order of merit or money leader is pretty much the same.  So my broad statement is including the entire world.   We all use the same governing bodies of golf.   

 

To: Frank.  My scrambling stats are not 80%.  I'm far less than that.  Enough is Enough!  Game over!   

My 3 clicking ability is fine, and my friends MS or controller ability is fine.  Leave the game be a game. Not a nightmare!.

[frank70]

Dennis that was a pretty good speech and I tend to agree but again I just hit what they give me but it is tiresome lately as every round seems to be in a hurricane and I used to play in tournaments on the Am level IRL back in the day and have never experienced this much wind in my life and not even now living at the beach.  The problem is that there are a handful of players here that are just destroying the course everytime they play and if you don't have the stimp up and the wind a howling they will kill it even more.  The team at OGT has done the best they can to control it but it is what it is.  I look at the Pro PGA and I am a -5 handicap and I go against someone who is one of these players who is a -6 and I and the rest of us are toast and cant compete.  If I shoot a 67 for me that's a great round but after the -5 I am even and the -6 guy well he shoots 62 in his sleep and is so far out in front that what begins to happen is you lose interest and that is what is happening right now.  We need just an elite league for these guys so the rest of us can at least have a chance and feel like we are playing for something other than middle of the pack each week.  Just my 2 cents.

Interestingly the tourneys on the PGA Tour at OGT were way closer than on Tour Pro, including 3-clickers being really competitive there too (Richybro shot - 44 in one tournament).

 

After all, we are talking about game design decisions here - not individual wishes. The devs decide where they like the winning score to be. Or they decide that the average score of those tourneys is their reference number.

 

Early access is a process to help the game progress. If some parts are changed for the better or for more realism it is always a good thing for the game imho. I don't want necessarily to shoot worse scores - but i if do because the scrambling and putting got more realistic i applaud the devs.

[Stephen Sullivan]

You will never balance the difficulty levels in a game such as this, and a game it is despite some calling it a simulation.

It has always been the same with golf games.

 

As a Links powerstroker, I always knew I could never compete against the best at Click or RTS and just contented myself on playing the best I could against the course and hoped I had a good day and got closer to the elite.

I shall not be playing much other than practice until I can get myself another mouse or the settings go up from 2.0 ( I know that is coming ), but if people are shooting those great scores, more power to them. I really don't care about it. I just want to beat the course.

[ProFirefighter]

... if people are shooting those great scores, more power to them. I really don't care about it. I just want to beat the course.

 

Exactly, I'm not concerned what others shoot either.

 

I play casually, using standard equipment . I know the tricks one can use to improve scores, but have no interest in playing games that way. And when Career Mode is eventually released, the playing field will be normalized and all will be good.

[Golden Bear]

LOL!  Now you opened the bag of worms.  Get ready my friends, the dung is hitting the rotary oscillator.  I will voice my opinion unrestrained and in a not so polite way.   Firstly I have never seen 10 tournaments in a row on the real pga tour have 50% breezy or higher winds.  I mean never!!!!  Not even the vaulted Open Championship in recent years.  Where is the realism to that small but important fact.  Wind stats on the PGA ever considered.       No! Not ever!  Never mentioned. A few elite players (no names used) because you know who you are, have complained about unrealistic scoring.   Again our Dev team said the real pga tours did not play stimps below 13.  Raise the difficulty and stats will come more into line with the PGA stats.  That philosophy I have no problem with because that is in line with the actual PGA tour.   

Anyway the complaining to this day still continues on and on about stats this stats that of the PGA.  (News flash!  This is a game my friends).   Whom was it that screamed bring the scoring even more in line with the REAL ​ pga tour stats.  Elite dudes!  So the OGT and PG staff went to stimp 13 and 14 added to the wind already used and made it harder.  Who get catered to here? 

This is fact:   every tournament change of PG or OGT has been made to satisfy the elite players.  What have us averaged guys received?  Yet not a Thing.  Not one stinking thing.  If this very glaring fact is not an prime example of pandering to the elite PG players -I'll kiss your southern end while your facing north. No sir the blame falls squarely at the feet of a few elite players.   They are screaming the loudest and getting pandered to, without question.   Not anyone else.  This issue is dividing this community and I'm backing it up.  Facts are Facts folks.    

 

I would like this request:  Bring wind stats into line with PGA stats.  This is a game for everyone, after all.  Everyone (me) can then not complain about pandering to the elite.

I'm out!  I'm beginning to sound like Donald Trump!

 

Yet some wonder why I never play in tournaments.  The reasons are glaringly obvious.

[Golden Bear]

Dennis that was a pretty good speech and I tend to agree but again I just hit what they give me but it is tiresome lately as every round seems to be in a hurricane and I used to play in tournaments on the Am level IRL back in the day and have never experienced this much wind in my life and not even now living at the beach.  The problem is that there are a handful of players here that are just destroying the course everytime they play and if you don't have the stimp up and the wind a howling they will kill it even more.  The team at OGT has done the best they can to control it but it is what it is.  I look at the Pro PGA and I am a -5 handicap and I go against someone who is one of these players who is a -6 and I and the rest of us are toast and cant compete.  If I shoot a 67 for me that's a great round but after the -5 I am even and the -6 guy well he shoots 62 in his sleep and is so far out in front that what begins to happen is you lose interest and that is what is happening right now.  We need just an elite league for these guys so the rest of us can at least have a chance and feel like we are playing for something other than middle of the pack each week.  Just my 2 cents.

 

"We need just an elite league for these guys so the rest of us can at least have a chance and feel like we are playing for something other than middle of the pack each week."

 

That is exactly what I was thinking.  A few players here have been told a couple of things countless times.  Sadly though it falls on deaf ears. You cannot compare real life golf stats to that of a video game.  It is utter folly.

 

So since these players refuse to listen to logic nor seem to care about those less talented, give them there own, small league and ban them from the main tournaments.  They may call this unfair, but it is no more unfair than what they are asking for against the masses's wishes.
 

[Golden Bear]

" if people are shooting those great scores, more power to them. I really don't care about it. I just want to beat the course."

 

This is the best post by anyone on this thread imo.  That is exactly the point  I have been trying to get across for months.  Who really cares about the scores?  We are here for fun first.  Second would be to worry about bringing the stats in line with the PGA.  That is something that will never happen.  With all due respect Frank70 and others, understand this.  Writing novels while closing your eyes to the facts will not change this reality.  

[Stephen Sullivan]

I think it's sad when winning is the be all and end all of some people's existence, and they have to have their name at the top of the leader board constantly.

 

Just had the good news that I am being treated to a Logitech G302   I will still make sure it's set to play Links first though as I still prefer it to PG at the moment.

[frank70]

Yet some wonder why I never play in tournaments.  The reasons are glaringly obvious.

And then: We are only talking about the highest difficulty level. Who is hindering anybody playing in tourneys on amateur or beginner level? The setups there are easier (wind, stimp).

[Golden Bear]

And then: We are only talking about the highest difficulty level. Who is hindering anybody playing in tourneys on amateur or beginner level? The setups there are easier (wind, stimp).

 

May I ask why you think your suggestions for the game should trump the majority?  May I also ask what you are trying to achieve by making tour pro harder.  You have already been told countless times that a golf "game" will "never" recreate the scores of the PGA.  Therefore what you keep asking for will never happen.  Time to let it go imo.

[frank70]

" if people are shooting those great scores, more power to them. I really don't care about it. I just want to beat the course."

 

This is the best post by anyone on this thread imo.  That is exactly the point  I have been trying to get across for months.  Who really cares about the scores?  We are here for fun first.  Second would be to worry about bringing the stats in line with the PGA.  That is something that will never happen.  With all due respect Frank70 and others, understand this.  Writing novels while closing your eyes to the facts will not change this reality.  

Deaf ears doesn't apply to me alone. Getting scores and stats realistic is impossible? This is a fact? Who says that? You or the devs?

 

Scores matter when playing in tournaments. If you don't like to play in them don't force your opinion, that "scores doesn't matter", on everybody else. Scores seems to matter to a lot of guys who aren't on your black list like i am. Especially to those who like "to compete" and are bored by tournaments they cannot win because others are better.

 

And now we begin banning players from tournaments? For what reason?

[frank70]

May I ask why you think your suggestions for the game should trump the majority?  May I also ask what you are trying to achieve by making tour pro harder.  You have already been told countless times that a golf "game" will "never" recreate the scores of the PGA.  Therefore what you keep asking for will never happen.  Time to let it go imo.

Maybe you are right with the scores .... maybe not. Interestingly there are sports sim out there, that are quite good at delivering realistic scores. Why shouldn't that be a goal of Perfect Parallel?

 

And again: Not more difficult - more realistic. You can produce shots with the short game in PG you cannot do in real life (flops, chips, bunker - physics are not right). Is it vital that this stays as it is?

 

P.S.: "Time to let it go": There you are absolutely right. I am in a clear minority when i talk about these (as is see it) gameplay "issues" (they are gameplay issues - not necessarily scoring issues). But first: Talking about it and posting about it doesn't mean "i force something on the majority" - the devs decide, not me. And second: We are in Early Access and in a forum everybody can state his opinion.

[Stephen Sullivan]

frank70, as a powerstroker I can identify with being in the minority 

[Greensboronclion]

Frank this keeps going on in every thread about this and the same constant desire that you want the game to be tougher but again almost all here are happy with how tough it is now so why do we keep rehashing this. my goal is to shoot par or better and when I do I am elated and your goal is to make it harder because your bored with shooting 62. I am sorry your as good as you are and we are as bad as we seem but we just want a game to enjoy not torture us. If you want bare naked golf with no AIDS go play it but if they keep it the way it is most here are going to be happy and have fun playing it.

[frank70]

Frank this keeps going on in every thread about this and the same constant desire that you want the game to be tougher but again almost all here are happy with how tough it is now so why do we keep rehashing this. my goal is to shoot par or better and when I do I am elated and your goal is to make it harder because your bored with shooting 62. I am sorry your as good as you are and we are as bad as we seem but we just want a game to enjoy not torture us. If you want bare naked golf with no AIDS go play it but if they keep it the way it is most here are going to be happy and have fun playing it.

That's okay.

[Golden Bear]

@ Frank70...   " Scores seems to matter to a lot of guys who aren't on your black list like i am."

 

You are not on any blacklist with me.  Sorry if it seems that way to you.  I was just stating my opinion.  Peace

[Crusher]

I have about 20 PG players blocked because all they want to do is talk and talk and talk about the so called game issues.  Crazy how the "clique of malcontents" continue these redundant conversations.

 

The game will be what "it will be" when all is said and done. Sheeeeeeesh!