241 replies to this topic

[Vernon520]

Getting something for nothing no matter how much time and effort somebody else has spent on producing a product not to mention cost.

If this is you, then it's time for you to start putting your hand in your pocket and to start to change your attitude.

PP is a business not a charity. Be a part of it  and stop whining or go some where else. No one is forcing anyone to pay for anything.

[tlvx]

Getting something for nothing no matter how much time and effort somebody else has spent on producing a product not to mention cost.

If this is you, then it's time for you to start putting your hand in your pocket and to start to change your attitude.

PP is a business not a charity. Be a part of it  and stop whining or go some where else. No one is forcing anyone to pay for anything.

 

That's precisely what they are stating they will be doing, lest we get our game access downgraded.

 

I don't think anyone here is ill-prepared to contribute to a game that they intend to continue to play. This idea that anyone wants something for free - save a few pirates - is preposterous. I don't know anyone on this forum that seems like they can't afford to pay for a good video game.

 

But, that's not what's going on here. Just some over the top, adversarial developer commentary; that we will be forcibly downgraded if we don't agree to pay any given price, at any given time, that has yet to even be quoted.

 

That type of rhetoric is nothing more than poppycock.

 

That's the type of thing you just decide to do... not threaten to do. Everyone can still get paid without the need to threaten downgrades.

 

They need a better Marketing Director.

[nightowl]

@zoikkis

 

There is an indepth explanatioin by Mogulbasher in the Steam JNPG Discussions about this topic. I would visit that discussion then return and post what you discovered during that visit.

 

The question is whether access to user-created courses should be dependent upon purchasing the update.  That's the sticking point.  As frank70 said earlier, it'd be nice to think the update itself would be attractive enough to get users to purchase it.  Instead, a threat is essentially being used to sell a product.  Do this, or else.  I know nothing about marketing, but that seems like a terrible approach.

[Jperkules]

Although I don't agree with the model that produces the above stated fact, that is causing such an uproar.

I do agree with Andrew's posts at Steam which basically say the following:

1)  Lots of time has been put into the Course Forge development, and this will be released for free.  Instead of charging for it where only course developers will pay, PP has decided to have everyone share in this cost through this business model.

2)  This is a way to ensure that PP can continue to develop the game, and ensure it doesn't end up like Links and TW online, which are now abandonware.

(As a side note, I'm just baffled by the different amounts of opinions, misreadings, information pulled out of nowhere, claims of Pay to Win, etc etc, that the general public can generate) 

[SmokaSizzle]

I think it is the same, even though you could still use the old tiger woods, how many people would actually go back? not many i wager.  E.A churned out the same game year after year and had the cheek to charge us full price for what was a few tweaks and updated roster, seems its ok for the big companies to do it, just not the smaller ones who rely on it.  You will prob find that a DLC upgrade will be reasonable in price, and i will have no problem supporting that, after all improved content is always a positive.

Nice way to word it man.

I wasn't seeing it this way but I totally agree with you.

[rolfw]

What could be considered a major upgrade other than a new game engine to improve graphics and frame rates which I do no not believe they have plans to pursue.  When it becomes available on the consoles will this be considered major upgrades? If so then  PC players will be forced to pay for something  that is of no benefit  to them in order to play user created courses.

 

As the games stands now there is a limited player base. It is hard to see it growing significantly under this plan. 

[tlvx]

Although I don't agree with the model that produces the above stated fact, that is causing such an uproar.

I do agree with Andrew's posts at Steam which basically say the following:

1)  Lots of time has been put into the Course Forge development, and this will be released for free.  Instead of charging for it where only course developers will pay, PP has decided to have everyone share in this cost through this business model.

2)  This is a way to ensure that PP can continue to develop the game, and ensure it doesn't end up like Links and TW online, which are now abandonware.

(As a side note, I'm just baffled by the different amounts of opinions, misreadings, information pulled out of nowhere, claims of Pay to Win, etc etc, that the general public can generate) 

 

I would almost rather they should just go back on their word and just charge for Course Forge, and claim it's because of the "vegetation rights" or whatever.

 

Truthfully, not everyone is going to be adept at creating playable courses. So, charging what they think it's worth... is better than threatening to take away access to the courses it produces... lest we agree to an open-ended pay structure of their choosing.

 

I'm starting to think that a monthly subscription fee, would be a better deal than whatever it is that they are mulling over right now.

 

I just want them to charge what they need to charge, and be happy to finish making a good game... instead of constantly worrying the community unnecessarily about untold fees.

[zmax - sim]

For those that don't visit steam forums.

 

Andrew posted this earlier today:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/288140/discussions/0/357286663691212201/?ctp=2#c357286663692182504

 

We are not talking about all DLC here either. You wont have to buy all the courses in order to be able to play User Courses or anything like that. We are talking about major milestone release of the game. Steam makes us post this as DLC or release an all new game. We dont want to come out with PG 2016 PG2017 PG2018 etc so instead we will release a new update each year to the game which adds a broad swath of stuff to the game.

 

People complain about having to buy annual releases of games where in many cases all the content from the previous game no longer works in the new game and we certainly did not want to be pushing out a new game each year with slightly better lipstick

 

Also we decided not to go with any Season Passes for Game Content either so people can choose to get what they want and not be forced into a season pass. Except for the Simualtor Pass which represents great value if you are a simulator user.

 

But we do need to make payroll and pay our developers to make improvements to the game. If people dont like what we will do they will not buy the next version and that is their choice.

 

We drew your attention to the line about the latest version of the game purposely in the message we posted so people would read it and see it. We did not try to hide it in there. 

 

 

We did not want to get dragged into what was going to be in the update but you can safely assume it would include something like

 

1) An all new UI

2) Multiple Characters with several new animations

3) 3D Grass and DX11 / 12

Plus lots of other stuff

 

Full stat tracking was released in 1.4.0.4 and all your stats can be viewed at Social.Perfectparallel.com We will add these into the UI when we redesign the UI

[MERACE]

If I choose not to purchase a significant DLC update will I still be able to play test my own course creations in Course Forge?

I think I already know the answer to that question but I would like clarification from PP.


-MERACE

[sirputterman]

I bought this game only after developer made a statement that we don't have to buy a season pass to be able to play the user-created courses. Now with the latest update they tell us that if you don't pay for some new DLCs every now and then you will "magically" lose this ability. So essentially it's a same thing as a season pass, just under a different name.

 

It doesn't matter how much they rationalize this decision with financial reasons etc. because they made a promise that they are breaking now. Lots of people have bought this game thinking that they will be fine after the initial payment.

 

I've seen lots of DLC for different games that has added features but never seen a DLC that actually removes features from those who don't buy it.

Very good point. Yes people realize that PP is a business and needs to make money so that I don't think is the issue here. I think it's more of how they have  gone about  this that has ruffled a few feathers. I mean no one is naive enough to not see this is basically the season pass  but just worded differently this whole " oh we are not charging for user made courses but in order to play user made courses you will need to buy the major updates " nudge nudge wink wink  approach just seems a bit lame. We all realize the end result  is that to play user made courses your going to have to pay for it. 

I would rather them be straight up and say  sorry guys we tried to make it work without charging for user made courses but it's just not financially viable for us to do so. So it will cost you once a year a fee  (or whatever they decide on)in order to continue to play custom courses. End of story. That at least is being straight forward  with out the "no  we are not  charging for user or custom courses but we are charging you in order to be able to play them. We all realize it amounts to the same thing but its the way it is worded  that can make the difference in perception.

 

Again though this should have been announced here  first in my opinion  with the exact  intervals and pricing of the updates also stated. If they haven't decided on those two key things then why not hold off saying anything until they have decided? It would lead to far less specualtion at least in my opinion  anyways.

[Vernon520]

That's precisely what they are stating they will be doing, lest we get our game access downgraded.

 

I don't think anyone here is ill-prepared to contribute to a game that they intend to continue to play. This idea that anyone wants something for free - save a few pirates - is preposterous. I don't know anyone on this forum that seems like they can't afford to pay for a good video game.

 

But, that's not what's going on here. Just some over the top, adversarial developer commentary; that we will be forcibly downgraded if we don't agree to pay any given price, at any given time, that has yet to even be quoted.

 

That type of rhetoric is nothing more than poppycock.

 

That's the type of thing you just decide to do... not threaten to do. Everyone can still get paid without the need to threaten downgrades.

 

They need a better Marketing Director.

You are not being forced to pay anymore. You will have purchased the game that you have at the present level and will still get some free downloads.

What you have is a game that cost $20 plus some free future upgrades albeit limited.

If you want more then you will have to pay for them which is no different, although probably cheaper, than buying a new version each year.

I don't see the problem.

[clubcaptain]

Need to straighten out some deep misconceptions here. I amongst many have said that losing any content through not updating the game is just not acceptable. 

 

In everything else there isn't any real difference amongst us. We all accept that PG needs to make money and we are not averse to paying for something we want. And in answer to the demeaning cheap bastards comment,  I have said twice elsewhere that I would gladly pay £50 for the designer and £50 per year for the game, provided everything was top notch, and that's not being a cheap bastard.It's way off being a top notch game, but if Pg can make a leap then they can have my £50 every year no problem. So let's get it straight that there are no cheap bastards here. We're all committed to pay for extras to varying degrees.

 

The  effect of losing access to user created courses will be enormous because they will form the bulk of courses available for tournaments for some time to come. By withdrawing access to tournaments because access to user made courses will be withdrawn will be catastrophic.

 

To sum up. No-one is underminng the game or the developers.We all want to see PG flourish. We all will pay something to help in that regard but don't deny anyone's right to choose when and how to spend their money. Just give us a simple payment plan which is fair to player and developer

[DennisHarris]

I do not understand the difference between a milestone update and an non milestone update.  Even more I'm not sure any non-milestone update exists.  LOL!   I'll support the game until I find the game is to expensive for the fun I am having.     

I have had this game for over 1 year and have spent 25.95.  This includes the " On-Core Caliber" ball and the new Bethesda course.   I've said this before, PG is a really great value for my retired fixed income self. 

 

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Not being able to play any user created courses after a milestone update is IMO fine.  Face it - if you are not current in version of the game (1.4.0.4) or course you won't be able to play anyway.   Game checks version of game and course now.

[Richard]

The link below leads to a Steam post related to this thread. In my opinion, this guy has the correct solution to the problem. I hope that PP seriously considers this and we move forward quickly. 

 

http://steamcommunit...tscn=1464124340

[Crusher]

I think it is the same, even though you could still use the old tiger woods, how many people would actually go back? not many i wager.  E.A churned out the same game year after year and had the cheek to charge us full price for what was a few tweaks and updated roster, seems its ok for the big companies to do it, just not the smaller ones who rely on it.  You will prob find that a DLC upgrade will be reasonable in price, and i will have no problem supporting that, after all improved content is always a positive.

 

Well stated!

[Ted_Ball]

And when is this new pricing model going to start? Will it start before we have an upgrade for the new animations ( + female, handedness), Course Forge, career mode, PP course releases, swing tweaks, improved UI, Official tournament creation, new clubs and balls, etc.? Will people stop buying at the current price to wait (and stopping cash flow)? Will minor but regular upgrades stop happening between now and then? Will the early access brethren lose their benefit and we all start again at Day 1?

 

From what I've seen in this crazy gaming world negative publicity is exactly what you don't want.

[LeazesNDR]

Getting something for nothing no matter how much time and effort somebody else has spent on producing a product not to mention cost.
If this is you, then it's time for you to start putting your hand in your pocket and to start to change your attitude.
PP is a business not a charity. Be a part of it  and stop whining or go some where else. No one is forcing anyone to pay for anything.

This is not about putting your hand in pocket for new stuff, most of us regulars from this forum will do that, its about having stuff removed from the game that you previously had access to if you choose not to buy the milestone update. The version lock seems to be an excellent idea.

[robbiet71]

The link below leads to a Steam post related to this thread. In my opinion, this guy has the correct solution to the problem. I hope that PP seriously considers this and we move forward quickly. 
 
http://steamcommunit...tscn=1464124340

Give this man a job! Perfect solution right there.

[Harvester]

I think something very important is being overlooked.  Andrew stated earlier today (on steam?) that sales of the new golf coarse was not good.

I have a feeling that those poor sales are what drove the decision to go with this current system.

[sirputterman]

Well stated!

Except your missing one detail with the tw pc game, you could play user made courses  for free in fact  there are still many courses being made for the 08 game and I still play it at least once a week. PP's approach means that you won't be able to play any user courses old or new. Now that being said I think this was the down fall of the tw series as far more played the  custom courses then the stock ones and EA didn't see a dime of revenue from it. That I think is what made them decide to kill the game off. I don't want that to happen to PP though just saying there is a diffference between the two games.