316 replies to this topic

[johnmeyer]

Simulator users putting average on our summer tour was 31 putts per round, with a putts per GIR of 1.98

To me this shows actually having the info available isn't actually the deriding factor as such, as we sim users have all that info and still average 31 putts.

This leads into that it must then be that executing that putt is the key factor. I think a change to the mechanics of all mouse/swing types to perhaps add more of a push pull penalty for missed snap/ off plane etc may well be the best way. Could then isolate the penalties at the different difficulty levels, just as is done for the longer shots

This also follows into the fact our scrambling stats are in the 50% area, again prob due to the increased putting difficulty,

As a guide a poor putt on the sim can be anywhere up to 5degrees offline. Anything over around 4-5 ft and this is a definite miss

Even 2 degrees offline results in a miss on the sim at any form of distance.

[stopits here]

The big problem with this game is the only difference between levels is mishit window, so the only difficulty really is who can hit straightest, no real skill involved (after a small learning curve) with that except who has the less sensitive device, i'm talking about people who have played golf games for years. 

[Acrilix]

johnmeyer, on 09 Sept 2016 - 7:59 PM, said:

Simulator users putting average on our summer tour was 31 putts per round, with a putts per GIR of 1.98

To me this shows actually having the info available isn't actually the deriding factor as such, as we sim users have all that info and still average 31 putts.
 

 

I thought that a lot of sim players use some form of auto-putt option.

[zmax - sim]

Acrilix, on 09 Sept 2016 - 8:27 PM, said:

I thought that a lot of sim players use some form of auto-putt option.

 

Not on tour.  We set gimmes at 4ft.  Everything else must be putted out.

 

They are free to use auto putt for non api rounds.

[fishwicket79]

zmax - sim, on 09 Sept 2016 - 8:35 PM, said:

Not on tour. We set gimmes at 4ft. Everything else must be putted out.

They are free to use auto putt for non api rounds.

waiting to speak to you zmax

[fishwicket79]

I've said from the 1st day I played this game that's its basically a straight hitting simulator the only difference in levels is that each step up shanks slightly more,what there should be is a mode with no zoom to aim(even Rory Mcilroy has this)and then maybe another mode with no zoom to aim and then no green grids

[Mike Jones]

fishwicket79, on 09 Sept 2016 - 9:30 PM, said:

I've said from the 1st day I played this game that's its basically a straight hitting simulator the only difference in levels is that each step up shanks slightly more,what there should be is a mode with no zoom to aim(even Rory Mcilroy has this)and then maybe another mode with no zoom to aim and then no green grids

You can't aim in zoom mode on TP.

[mebby]

Mike Jones, on 09 Sept 2016 - 9:45 PM, said:

You can't aim in zoom mode on TP.

With RTSC you essentially can. It doesn't reset your aim like it does in RTSM or MS or 3C.

[fishwicket79]

Mike Jones, on 09 Sept 2016 - 9:45 PM, said:

You can't aim in zoom mode on TP.

yes but what I mean is there should be no zooming to the fairway or green on tour pro.just have the overhead map to see where you are going but then you would require yardage markers

[mebby]

fishwicket79, on 09 Sept 2016 - 10:57 PM, said:

yes but what I mean is there should be no zooming to the fairway or green on tour pro.just have the overhead map to see where you are going but then you would require yardage markers

If you press down on the left stick twice you can use a cursor in the overhead view to figure out distances.  I still wish they had more of a yardage book type look in the overhead though so that we didn't have to use the cursor at all.

[Bob5453]

fishwicket79, on 09 Sept 2016 - 10:57 PM, said:

yes but what I mean is there should be no zooming to the fairway or green on tour pro.just have the overhead map to see where you are going but then you would require yardage markers

I don't ever use the overhead map, so by your way of thinking, I should be asking for the overhead map to be removed from TP. I use the zoom to see what's in front of me.

[Ted_Ball]

I would like to see a function that allows you to zoom from the ball position into the distance for aiming. The view down the fairway to a desired landing area from the player or ball position now is not detailed enough in comparison to our real life vision (on my 1600x900 monitor anyway). It wouldn't have to be a powerful 'zoom' but more like a 'focus'.

 

But reading this excellent unpointless thread I see the stirrings of a trend towards a BARE type way of playing. First there has been a movement towards and acceptance of NAP and then maybe we will see people embracing playing with less on-screen information. Stone Comet made a great suggestion as well about playing without using the different shot types - like flops and splashes and chips and pitches which make playing and scoring much too mechanical as far as I'm concerned. You can actually play a short game effectively with just the normal swing.

 

The ideally realistic method would be to swing in real time (a bit more functional than the current RTS animation) to allow you to 'feel' the strength of shots rather than simply watching the ani. After time with BARE I'm beginning to gain that 'feel' and the point is, even though my scores are well over par at Pro level, I know that those scores will approach par or better with experience. And that's what keeps me coming back.

 

As usual I have to say that this is for people who want to play at the highest level and want a challenge as well as realistic scoring and there should always be easier levels for others..blah blah.

 

I have to question people who say any part of the game (at TourPro) is too easy when they continue to use absolutely precise HUD data and visual putt-reading aids as well as certain types of hardware. That's not a criticism of those people but merely trying to show there is another way and if the developers kept that in mind there could well be another level of play above the current TourPro with additions (or more precisely - things taken way) in future updates.

[worrybirdie]

I still fight the minimalists (though I would fight for their right to be so). The act of actually playing golf offers so many more cues and sensory inputs that any golf game needs to compensate for this with aids to make it more like real golf(yes, the masochists among you can turn them off). That's not even discussing the intel the pros have to play with (I'd kill for a simple topo map of the green area for approach shots...and I know...hit F3, then F5...then scroll into ground level...and get a vague impression of what the green is doing ).

[frank70]

johnmeyer, on 09 Sept 2016 - 7:59 PM, said:

Simulator users putting average on our summer tour was 31 putts per round, with a putts per GIR of 1.98

To me this shows actually having the info available isn't actually the deriding factor as such, as we sim users have all that info and still average 31 putts.

This leads into that it must then be that executing that putt is the key factor. I think a change to the mechanics of all mouse/swing types to perhaps add more of a push pull penalty for missed snap/ off plane etc may well be the best way. Could then isolate the penalties at the different difficulty levels, just as is done for the longer shots

This also follows into the fact our scrambling stats are in the 50% area, again prob due to the increased putting difficulty,

As a guide a poor putt on the sim can be anywhere up to 5degrees offline. Anything over around 4-5 ft and this is a definite miss

Even 2 degrees offline results in a miss on the sim at any form of distance.

This would be one way to do it but that would mean that we would have the putting skills of amateurs with a handicap of ??????

I still would love to get rid of the BLI and the grids. I think tha aiming pole and the graphical information is good enough to get a good enough read what the ball is going to do. It would mean that reading putts would be a skill within the game - as it is in real life. Then tinker with the difficulty of performing a straight putting stroke (some devices are harder than others) and we would have a much more realistic game and challenge on the greens.

Make the chips, flops, pitches and greenside bunker shots more punitive if not executed perfectly, take a look at the physics out of the rough and we would have the most realistic game in the market by far.

[JoeBradley]

worrybirdie, on 10 Sept 2016 - 04:01 AM, said:

I'd kill for a simple topo map of the green area for approach shots.

Never understood why this has never been implemented in golf games. I begged for it in Links and it never happened (that green reader thing was hopeless). The green topo in TV coverage is so useful in explaining what the players are trying to do. It reminds you why missing the pin 15ft short left or whatever is the perfect shot. Yes, in PG you can fly around etc etc, but that simple topo would enhance the game hugely because of its influence on decision making on approach shots - one of the more satisfying aspects of the game. As it is, I find myself largely hitting and hoping and dealing with whatever putt/chip that happens to give me.  

[jt83]

frank70, on 10 Sept 2016 - 04:57 AM, said:

I think tha aiming pole and the graphical information is good enough to get a good enough read what the ball is going to do.

 

Not for me.

[Harvester]

I've always wished for an overhead/caddie book view that simply had  yardage to and from the front of the green.  Distance off the front to the Pin.  Fairway widths.  And simple contours on the fairway and greens.  In a perfect world I'd also be able to make notes in this as well.

Given that info I could guestimate my way around the course.

[frank70]

jt83, on 10 Sept 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

Not for me.

Have you tried it? You don't get a perfect read, but when i play real golf i don't get that neither. There are a lot of putts that behave a little differently than i expected them to do. If you look at it from this angle, playing without BLI or grid might be closer to reality than the 100%-information the Bli gives us.

[Affo]

Instead of the overhead map...could a course yardage book style of picture be used for each hole. That is what you get in the big outdoors only, plus any notes you want to make?

 

The ones with the lines on showing 250yds etc from the tee, distances to landmarks, line for 150yds to the pin and picture of the green with main slopes marked out.

[frank70]

Affo, on 10 Sept 2016 - 11:48 AM, said:

Instead of the overhead map...could a course yardage book style of picture be used for each hole. That is what you get in the big outdoors only, plus any notes you want to make?

 

The ones with the lines on showing 250yds etc from the tee, distances to landmarks, line for 150yds to the pin and picture of the green with main slopes marked out.

Depends a little bit, if we simulate playing a Sunday morning round with a friend or playing as a Tour Pro. If we do simulate the second, we have to remember the important role, the caddies take. These guys have every distance right and they scout the greens intensively as well.

 

Yardage information therefore is quite realistic. The pros know the distance to the flag pretty exact before each shot. Could be a little corridor, like "145-150 yards"