316 replies to this topic

[Steve2golf]

frank70, on 09 Sept 2016 - 2:09 PM, said:

This would be a shame. Is it really so important to a majority to shoot ridicolous scores on the hardest level? I am trying to understand that - but fail at it.

Not sure it's the low scores, or the easier gameplay they want, but most don't shoot low or find it that easy even on the easiest game there is presently, that being TGC1. Most just want to play, not have to learn anything. They don't want to stand there with a calculator, spend a minute over the shot, or practice the crap out of the game to figure out all the various ways to play the game, they just want to guesstimate and fire away. They consider playing practice, have no clue how to learn the game, nor any interest. Course management to them is firing at every flag. Problem with these golf games, people come along and dial them in, play proper course management and obliterate the casual player.

Casual player looks at the ridiculous out of reach scores and freaks and demands change.

Better player dials in those changes as well and leaves the casual player even further behind. Rinse and repeat.

Casual player just complains more, calls out all kinds of theories and tin foil hat stuff. Better player just carries on.

Only way the field is kept closer is with easier game play not harder. The casual player will always refuse to learn the game properly.

Easier gives you more people, more sales, closer fields, more birdies, unrealistic scores, harder gives the opposite. Harder will never be the popular choice.

However, the casual player does want to play the game at the hardest levels, they just don't want those levels to be hard for themselves, but they want those levels to be harder for other people. Its an impossible request I know. But what are you going to do.

[stopits here]

Crow357, on 09 Sept 2016 - 2:48 PM, said:

I have to totally, vehemently and respectfully disagree with this.  I play JNPG precisely because it's hard.  If I want to play easy golf, I fire up TigerWoods 1-15TGCLinks2001Links3003LeaderbordVirtiginousGolf et. al.  I want the most realistic, most difficult, most badass game of golf there is and right now, that game's name is Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf.  You are correct tho that the vast majority of gamers DO want easy mode golf.  It's why you could never find anything but an easy mode amateur level game on Xbox Live.  It made me want to shove knitting needles into my temples.  I guess it's because I'm a Golfer first and a Gamer 2nd.

 

Heck, why not just out a button on the tee that says, "Click here for a birdie".

I get what you say but you and your five friends wont pay PP bills    .

[frank70]

stopits here, on 09 Sept 2016 - 2:36 PM, said:

Just look at the stats and see how many people play Tour Pro.
And honestly i wouldn't want this game to emulate golf like i play IRL, if you do then buy the simulator simple.
On PC/console this is a game simple as that, it can't emulate in any shape or form a golfers swing with a mouse/controller, if you think it should you are deluded, i'm sorry if you don't like this but it's true, if you want real golf go play real golf simple.

Why does PP suceed in emulating the game of golf with the long game then (controllers need some tweaks, RTS-M and 3-click are great!)?

Long game possible - short game impossible? Doesn't convince me at all!

[frank70]

stopits here, on 09 Sept 2016 - 3:03 PM, said:

I get what you say but you and your five friends wont pay PP bills .

And you think that JNPG can beat the competition by another version of “shoot -20 - per round - arcade golf“?

I don't think so. Look at EAs stellar graphics. TGC has more eye candy and a quite simple course creator. Where is the market for PP if not with shooting for realism?

That doesn't mean that the game shouldn't be easy to pick up .... on the lower levels. But as realistic as possible on the very highest level? What would be wrong with that?

[Crow357]

stopits here, on 09 Sept 2016 - 3:03 PM, said:

I get what you say but you and your five friends wont pay PP bills    .

You still haven't convinced me why we need another Arcade golf game.

[stopits here]

frank70, on 09 Sept 2016 - 3:14 PM, said:

And you think that JNPG can beat the competition by another version of “shoot -20 - per round - arcade golf“?

I don't think so. Look at EAs stellar graphics. TGC has more eye candy and a quite simple course creator. Where is the market for PP if not with shooting for realism?

That doesn't mean that the game shouldn't be easy to pick up .... on the lower levels. But as realistic as possible on the very highest level? What would be wrong with that?

Nothing Wrong with what you say, i just think it's funny that people want a joystick/mouse to replicate an actual golfers swing, it's impossible. and when game devs put the option to actually try to emulate the golfer, as in wii remote ps4 move xbox connect no one liked it?. 

[frank70]

stopits here, on 09 Sept 2016 - 3:21 PM, said:

Nothing Wrong with what you say, i just think it's funny that people want a joystick/mouse to replicate an actual golfers swing, it's impossible. and when game devs put the option to actually try to emulate the golfer, as in wii remote ps4 move xbox connect no one liked it?.

Not replicate, simulate the difficulty of execution. What PP did really wonderful with the long game. Work around the same concept with the short game and you would have the absolutely best golf sim out there ... by far.

Would that possibly a selling point if big sports gaming websites review JNPG? Couldn't hurt cause in the other aspects of golf games i don't see JNPG superior.

[stopits here]

frank70, on 09 Sept 2016 - 3:26 PM, said:

Not replicate, simulate the difficulty of execution. What PP did really wonderful with the long game. Work around the same concept with the short game and you would have the absolutely best golf sim out there ... by far.

Would that possibly a selling point if big sports gaming websites review JNPG? Couldn't hurt cause in the other aspects of golf games i don't see JNPG superior.

Yes ok i agree, would be great.

[frank70]

“Easy to pick up - difficult to master“ .That would be great.

[DivotMaker]

Crow357, on 09 Sept 2016 - 2:48 PM, said:

I have to totally, vehemently and respectfully disagree with this.  I play JNPG precisely because it's hard.  If I want to play easy golf, I fire up TigerWoods 1-15TGCLinks2001Links3003LeaderbordVirtiginousGolf et. al.  I want the most realistic, most difficult, most badass game of golf there is and right now, that game's name is Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf.  You are correct tho that the vast majority of gamers DO want easy mode golf.  It's why you could never find anything but an easy mode amateur level game on Xbox Live.  It made me want to shove knitting needles into my temples.  I guess it's because I'm a Golfer first and a Gamer 2nd.

 

Heck, why not just out a button on the tee that says, "Click here for a birdie".

 

Could not agree more.....and it is sad that the mass market user wants just what you describe above.....too bad that actual golfers who play video games are not a bigger market than the casual users.

[Steve2golf]

Proof is in the pudding, again don't shoot the messenger.

I like hard core hard golf and H2H play with a lobby and play with strangers or friends or whoever.

I think this game looks better to me then TGC1, definitely plays better, the 50 or so courses I'm happy with, they look great, play great. The various lies play well and are done better than TGC1.

All in all, this game is better the TGC1 to me.

Downside here, I log in everyday to the lobby, and see 22 players.

Why is that I query.? Only available on 1 platform, maybe a little, but my steam list suggest plenty of others on the other game at any given time.

This game has easier levels to learn, why is it not more popular?

Only answer I can come up with, the harder levels are to hard.

Remember, you are dealing with a couple generations that was driven everywhere, never rode public transportation, they broke it was instantly replaced, always told how great they were, played sports where no score was kept, participation trophies, no jungle gyms, may as well been wrapped in bubble wrap, lysol disinfected environments, and every minute of all their days was planned, organized and orchestrated by someone else etc etc. They cannot deal with difficulty or competition, they need it spoon fed to them, and they must be instantly great or they are gone.

[Mike Jones]

Never did understand the mentality of wanting the hardest level of a game to be easier when there are other easier levels. We will rail against the illogical premise of that.

[Crow357]

Tiger Woods had Arcade and Hard levels.  I'm the only one that I knew of that played on hard.  Everyone on Xbox Live played Arcade.  The difference between their Arcade and this game's Beginner is you can't add spin in the air and there is variable wind here.  It's awful tough to eagle every hole in this game which is what those Arcade guys always tried to do.

 

So, add in user added spin and take out variable wind and you'll get more bodies in the lobby.  Put it on Xbox Live and PS4 and you'll get even more bodies.  They'll be Arcade bodies, but there will be more.

[frank70]

Crow357, on 09 Sept 2016 - 5:54 PM, said:

Tiger Woods had Arcade and Hard levels.  I'm the only one that I knew of that played on hard.  Everyone on Xbox Live played Arcade.  The difference between their Arcade and this game's Beginner is you can't add spin in the air and there is variable wind here.  It's awful tough to eagle every hole in this game which is what those Arcade guys always tried to do.

 

So, add in user added spin and take out variable wind and you'll get more bodies in the lobby.  Put it on Xbox Live and PS4 and you'll get even more bodies.  They'll be Arcade bodies, but there will be more.

Do anything to get a lot of people to buy the game, add the "spin in the air, eagle is the new par-mode", and then ...... add the simulation level above tour pro!! With more difficult short game and with a smart solution to get rid of the BLi and the grid. And .... bingo! 

 

I had a dream .....

[Crow357]

My point is, making beginner even easier does nothing to increase the numbers of people playing hard mode.

[fishwicket79]

Steve2golf, on 09 Sept 2016 - 5:22 PM, said:

Proof is in the pudding, again don't shoot the messenger.
I like hard core hard golf and H2H play with a lobby and play with strangers or friends or whoever.
I think this game looks better to me then TGC1, definitely plays better, the 50 or so courses I'm happy with, they look great, play great. The various lies play well and are done better than TGC1.
All in all, this game is better the TGC1 to me.
Downside here, I log in everyday to the lobby, and see 22 players.
Why is that I query.? Only available on 1 platform, maybe a little, but my steam list suggest plenty of others on the other game at any given time.
This game has easier levels to learn, why is it not more popular?
Only answer I can come up with, the harder levels are to hard.
Remember, you are dealing with a couple generations that was driven everywhere, never rode public transportation, they broke it was instantly replaced, always told how great they were, played sports where no score was kept, participation trophies, no jungle gyms, may as well been wrapped in bubble wrap, lysol disinfected environments, and every minute of all their days was planned, organized and orchestrated by someone else etc etc. They cannot deal with difficulty or competition, they need it spoon fed to them, and they must be instantly great or they are gone.

the main reason for this Steve is that they all playing OGT or PGLS tournaments.how many names do you see on these website leaderboards but you dont see them ever setting games or joining games?

[SeventyFour]

Most of "us" gather on Teamspeak every night, there's games from 6pm EST till 3am EST..................

[DivotMaker]

Mike Jones, on 09 Sept 2016 - 5:31 PM, said:

Never did understand the mentality of wanting the hardest level of a game to be easier when there are other easier levels. We will rail against the illogical premise of that.

Thank you!

[cajuncapgun]

Ben Hogan's Five Lessons- The Modern Fundamentals of Golf is a great book      

[Greensboronclion]

Mike Jones, on 09 Sept 2016 - 5:31 PM, said:

Never did understand the mentality of wanting the hardest level of a game to be easier when there are other easier levels. We will rail against the illogical premise of that.

 

 

Mike I am not an advocate of making TP easier I am for tightening up the difference between Amateur and Pro as right now there is a big jump to go up.  As was the case with Links I believe the most popular level should be Pro and where most players fall and the Elite play at the TP level where it is very difficult but the gap between Pro and TP is not as bad as the gap between Pro and Amateur.  If Amateur was toughened up a bit where it was more gradual jump to Pro I think we in the end would have more people playing at Pro level.  The beginning two levels need not change IMO but that's just me.  Even if you let Pro where it is and just made Amateur a little harder would be a good thing.