367 replies to this topic

[IanK]

3199E5kennetharry, on 28 Nov 2016 - 7:12 PM, said:

I find playing alone is boring like in real life.

So you think the game of golf is 'boring'?

[IanK]

clubcaptain, on 27 Nov 2016 - 01:10 AM, said:

Me too SGC. I did give mouse swing and gamepad a go but both were horrible.

 

Well I'm afraid you are wrong. It's fair enough to say you prefer playing 3C but unfair on the devs and players who use these methods to say that these excellent modes of play are 'horrible'!

[Dazmaniac]

Ian,

I sometimes think players say certain swings are horrible because they don't have the patience to sit and learn/practice the nuances that they have.

3C is so easy to pick up and use.

I personally would like to crack the RTS-M but I'm just not committed enough to learn it. What brief testing I've done with it, I find it a brilliant swing mechanism.

Its just my right index finger has built up 20yrs of muscle memory playing 2C/3C I just can't change, lol.

[IanK]

Dazmaniac, on 30 Nov 2016 - 10:51 AM, said:

Ian,
I sometimes think players say certain swings are horrible because they don't have the patience to sit and learn/practice the nuances that they have.
3C is so easy to pick up and use.
I personally would like to crack the RTS-M but I'm just not committed enough to learn it. What brief testing I've done with it, I find it a brilliant swing mechanism.
Its just my right index finger has built up 20yrs of muscle memory playing 2C/3C I just can't change, lol.

Use your foot Daz! ;-)

[jeffield]

I agree with Frank and footslogger. If you want to shoot super low play on the easier levels. I had this same argument at tgc. Unfortunately they would only offer one set difficulty level (easy) and got rid of their tempo based swing due to objections from those who wanted to shoot in the 50's. Also. I made the argument before that rts-m must be harder than rts-c. And i was told that wasn't true by a regular and beta tester here. Yet everything I read and the fact that rts-m is the only tempo based swing in the game leads me to believe that I am right. At least they have different tournaments for different input methods from what I see at ogt. So that is good.

[IanK]

jeffield, on 30 Nov 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

I agree with Frank and footslogger. If you want to shoot super low play on the easier levels. I had this same argument at tgc. Unfortunately they would only offer one set difficulty level (easy) and got rid of their tempo based swing due to objections from those who wanted to shoot in the 50's. Also. I made the argument before that rts-m must be harder than rts-c. And i was told that wasn't true by a regular and beta tester here. Yet everything I read and the fact that rts-m is the only tempo based swing in the game leads me to believe that I am right. At least they have different tournaments for different input methods from what I see at ogt. So that is good.

I think you are correct. I've given all three control methods a good try. I dismissed the 3C method because I wanted something more akin to the motion of a real golf swing. The RTS-M is very good and probably the most accurate of the three methods with far more nuances pertaining to the real golf swing. This method was my personal choice until the controller swing came along. It's nearly as detailed as the RTS-M but more convenient for me personally.
Out of the three methods I felt that the RTS-S was the most accurate but also the most difficult.

[frank70]

jeffield, on 30 Nov 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

I agree with Frank and footslogger. If you want to shoot super low play on the easier levels. I had this same argument at tgc. Unfortunately they would only offer one set difficulty level (easy) and got rid of their tempo based swing due to objections from those who wanted to shoot in the 50's. Also. I made the argument before that rts-m must be harder than rts-c. And i was told that wasn't true by a regular and beta tester here. Yet everything I read and the fact that rts-m is the only tempo based swing in the game leads me to believe that I am right. At least they have different tournaments for different input methods from what I see at ogt. So that is good.

We have tournaments together as well.

 

RTS-M is imho a little bit more difficult at all shots except for the putting (before the coming update). It's a bit more difficult because of the tempo element and it has three sources of penalty (tempo, swing plane and mishit heel/toe). If i understood it correctly RTS-C has only two penalty sources: swing plane and mishit. With 3-click you concentrate "only" (it's hard enough!) on the snap. And 3-click has a meter, which is a big advantage when judging shot power.

 

When you hit a ball with RTS-M you have to pull back the mouse on a very straight plane, feel the rhythm to get the 0.25 ratio right and then you have to push the mouse more or less exactly the same path forward that you have taken it back at the backswing. To coordinate these three things isn't easy. But it isn't easy to move a controller stick in a straight path and it isn't easy to hit the snap exactly right. But you have to concentrate on fewer things simultaneously.

 

The real difficulty with RTS-M begins when you hit partial shots or go in the overswing zone ... because it requires a totally different timing and rhythm of motion to hit the ball straight - because of the ratio. I think no other control method has this special difficulty.

 

But my original point wasn't that RTS-M is too hard. At Tour Pro the long game is managable to a point that you can get very realistic stats (GIR and FIR). My point was that the statistic at OGT suggest that the long game is a good amount easier with RTS-C and probably will be easier for 3-click when the snap-penalty will be reduced in the coming update.

 

As a RTS-M player i am really looking forward to the update. The scrambling and putting (way too easy right now with RTS-M) are going to be more challenging. My scores and more importantly, the feel when playing the game, will get even more realistic. If the tournaments are played on a more or less level playing field will be seen.

[clubcaptain]

IanK, on 30 Nov 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

Well I'm afraid you are wrong. It's fair enough to say you prefer playing 3C but unfair on the devs and players who use these methods to say that these excellent modes of play are 'horrible'!

Good grief, can't you see I was just commenting on MY experience without any intention of dissing the devs or other players. Of course other methods  are fine in their own right and lots of people love 'em but to me they are horrible, incompatible, unsuitable, whatever doesn't offend. Seems like you have to walk on eggshells here sometimes.

[brokenclub]

so hows that update going?

[IanK]

clubcaptain, on 30 Nov 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

Good grief, can't you see I was just commenting on MY experience without any intention of dissing the devs or other players. Of course other methods are fine in their own right and lots of people love 'em but to me they are horrible, incompatible, unsuitable, whatever doesn't offend. Seems like you have to walk on eggshells here sometimes.

You didn't say that that the other methods were 'horrible' for you. You said "Me too SGC. I did give mouse swing and gamepad a go but both were horrible."

Perhaps you didn't mean it the way that I read it so please be more specific next time you make a comment, otherwise it's natural for people to assume you mean it the way it's been written.
Perhaps you could explain why you think these methods are 'horrible'. I'm sure the devs would appreciate your feedback.

[Kablammo11]

Breaking News: There are PM's available for personal messages now. Cap, Ian: Use them, please.

[Vernon520]

jeffield, on 30 Nov 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

I agree with Frank and footslogger. If you want to shoot super low play on the easier levels. I had this same argument at tgc. Unfortunately they would only offer one set difficulty level (easy) and got rid of their tempo based swing due to objections from those who wanted to shoot in the 50's. Also. I made the argument before that rts-m must be harder than rts-c. And i was told that wasn't true by a regular and beta tester here. Yet everything I read and the fact that rts-m is the only tempo based swing in the game leads me to believe that I am right. At least they have different tournaments for different input methods from what I see at ogt. So that is good.

Sorry to disagree but RTS-C also has a tempo element to it although it is nowhere as important as the tempo in RTS-M.

The speed of the forward motion of the thumbstick affects the loss/gain figure. More gain i.e acceleration= more distance.

[frank70]

Vernon520, on 30 Nov 2016 - 1:23 PM, said:

Sorry to disagree but RTS-C also has a tempo element to it although it is nowhere as important as the tempo in RTS-M.

The speed of the forward motion of the thumbstick affects the loss/gain figure. More gain i.e acceleration= more distance.

That's right. We have that with RTS-M at putting. Push the mouse faster and you gain feet.

 

Again: RTS-C is challenging. But the best guys have mastered the long game in a way that is a bit unrealistic imho. 90% FIR is simply a bit much.

[Vernon520]

frank70, on 30 Nov 2016 - 1:28 PM, said:

That's right. We have that with RTS-M at putting. Push the mouse faster and you gain feet.

 

Again: RTS-C is challenging. But the best guys have mastered the long game in a way that is a bit unrealistic imho. 90% FIR is simply a bit much.

I can't disagree with that. That 's why I don't use aids such green grid etc. but as in IRL, there is seldom such a thing as a level playing field and it is something that we all have to accept.

My own FIR range from 70-90% but my GIR are around 50-70%, so in my case low GIR tends to even out my FIR but I can still record par rounds fairly consistently.

[frank70]

Vernon520, on 30 Nov 2016 - 1:46 PM, said:

I can't disagree with that. That 's why I don't use aids such green grid etc. but as in IRL, there is seldom such a thing as a level playing field and it is something that we all have to accept.

My own FIR range from 70-90% but my GIR are around 50-70%, so in my case low GIR tends to even out my FIR but I can still record par rounds fairly consistently.

Yes, maybe it is what it is. But i am sure the devs have enough to do. I don't know, if they are even aware of these stats.

 

Quite a few players have better FIR than GIR numbers. Maybe it's a problem that the penalty with driver should be a tad higher. Maybe the lower GIR is a consequence of going for every pin. Hard to say.

[IanK]

Kablammo11, on 30 Nov 2016 - 1:11 PM, said:

Breaking News: There are PM's available for personal messages now. Cap, Ian: Use them, please.

You're a funny guy K11. Please explain!
When someone makes a statement that I feel is incorrect I post accordingly.

[DivotMaker]

SirGrassCutter, on 30 Nov 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

You want the game kept harder for all because you play tournaments and feel the scores are too high.  The scores are irrelevant as it simply is how the best play.  All players in any fixed skill tournament have the same chances to score high.  Yet you keep trying to compare a video game to the PGA.  I do not think you will ever get this point that it is folly to do so.  People like I am already going to be forced to play a fixed snap assist level (max/min is not one of them), yet you also want PP to not tweak the settings for us 3 clickers.  You want your cake and to eat it too.  What you should be doing instead is not trying to ram down others throats continually harder settings just because you play tournaments when some just play friendly rounds.  Try giving 3 click a go at tour pro and use overswing.  I doubt you will get many in the fairway at all.  There appears to be no end in site for requests that you want at the expense of others.  I am not the first to tell you to let it go already and hopefully more will.  If one cannot shoot this -50 you mentioned, one should simply tip their hat to those that can and accept the fact that some are just that good.

 

It has been done before.....Tiger Woods 2000 for PC is still the most difficult and challenging 3-click golf game ever developed.

[DivotMaker]

frank70, on 30 Nov 2016 - 07:35 AM, said:

Mike or Andrew:

 

Could you maybe tell us, what is going to change exactly in terms of difficulty for the different swing mechanics in the coming update?

 

Making 3-click long game easier and leaving RTS-C as it is will certainly not lead to more realistic scores (the winning score in the last tournament on tour pro was -50 (!!!) by a RTS-C-player on a real course!

 

Good RTS-C guys hit between 85-95 % FIR. Most of them are using the avant ball.

 

Good 3-click guys hit around 60 %. Most are using the avant ball.

 

Good RTS-M guys hit 65%. All players i know are using the caliber ball.

 

There is no need to make 3-click easier. All they have to do is to use the caliber ball to be more accurate. Drgnslyr221 does it and he has hit 91% fairways in the last tournament.

 

If i would use the avant ball playing RTS-M i am sure i couldn't sniff 50% FIR. I imagine that the update will raise my scores by 2 maybe 3 shots per round (short game, putting). And i love that! But i am afraid that the balance between the swing mechanics gets even worse.

 

Screenshot: I think the stats of the last tournament show my argument pretty clear.

 

Frank,

 

I have been using the Caliber ball for months. I just switched to the Avant ball for more of a swing challenge. My scoring in the last two tournaments was -25 at Liberty (Winner playing same difficulty shot -50) and I shot -2 at Lands end with the winner at -25......hang in there, I think you will see some leveling of challenge coming with the update.

[DivotMaker]

Dazmaniac, on 30 Nov 2016 - 10:51 AM, said:

Ian,

I sometimes think players say certain swings are horrible because they don't have the patience to sit and learn/practice the nuances that they have.

3C is so easy to pick up and use.

I personally would like to crack the RTS-M but I'm just not committed enough to learn it. What brief testing I've done with it, I find it a brilliant swing mechanism.

Its just my right index finger has built up 20yrs of muscle memory playing 2C/3C I just can't change, lol.

 

Same here....if not for OGT, I would likely try to learn it. That being said, I do love RTS-C.....and now playing with the Avant ball, this should be an adventure....

[DivotMaker]

Vernon520, on 30 Nov 2016 - 1:23 PM, said:

Sorry to disagree but RTS-C also has a tempo element to it although it is nowhere as important as the tempo in RTS-M.

The speed of the forward motion of the thumbstick affects the loss/gain figure. More gain i.e acceleration= more distance + more risk of penalty

 

Fixed, based upon my experience.....