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#61 mebby

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 01:10 AM

this will not go over good but i'm saying it anyway.
how many years are we going to play this game on the 
initial money we paid, what most of us a few years now.
i bet money would get us some good progress.
i would bet this game is just barely holding its head above water.
im ready to pay a season pass yearly. and hell it was an expensive day
finding out and paying a 24k+ IRS bill.
so you guys who puff out their chest and say im paying no more money on this
game while having a computer with mega specs in your sig.
give it some thought before running this down.
you know what they say money makes the world go round.


If there was something to spend my money on they'd get my money. Money isn't the issue...

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#62 ✠ davef ✠

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 01:43 AM

money not a problem.

think about it why do you suppose we have to go to

off site non PP sites to get user made courses?

how come they are not with the PP courses?

could that maybe because of the price of space on the steam server?

or maybe they can't afford to pay someone to keep up with all the courses and 

designers .

 

money like i said earlier makes the world turn.


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#63 jt83

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 08:11 AM

I just enjoyed 9 holes at Illinois, the very first course available in PG.  As I was playing, I realised career mode really isn't a priority for me (it wasn't in Links), and maybe it shouldn't have been for the devs either.  The core audience is small enough; I'd like to know how many of us really want a career mode and how many are happy playing alone, in normal multiplayer or on OGT.

I draw a parallel to Tennis Elbow.  The base game is cheap but continually updated, and modders take care of the rest, including using all sorts of official ATP logos and player names/likenesses.  I guess it's too late because console versions of PG require some sort of career - I just wonder if everyone would've been better off by simply trying to produce the best looking, bug-free game possible, selling it at an affordable price point, and letting the community take care of the rest.  This has all been discussed before, but hell, it's that kind of thread.



#64 NoPutt

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 08:32 AM

What if the customer has been waiting so long they die at the table?

After paying for a few drinks, and offered free appetizers, they shouldn't be that hungry.


Dry Gulch...................Released                     Smithfield Golf Club...........Released

Millstone Golf Club....Released                      The Walker Course............Released

Kingsmill Woods Course...Released               Pine Lake Golf Club..........Released

Woodhaven Golf Club (9) Released                The Reserve at Keowee...Released

Cliffs at Keowee Vineyards..Released              The Ace Club...................Released

Dry Gulch 2..........Released                               Blackberry Oaks.............Released

 


#65 RobV

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 11:07 AM

Wow, this thread is jumpin!   Obviously a hot topic here, which shows people do care about the game and want it to progress. 

 

I suppose the things that may put many minds to ease is if we had confirmation of a few items:  

1) This is truly a "Side Project", as others have term'd it.  The version we have now will be the last version of this game, maybe a few updates here and there to fix bugs, etc.   The community continues to get better and better with CF, courses pile out only to use the same, current version of the game.  

 

While I understand that the devs have other business ventures and all, I would be extremely disappointed if they actually confirmed this to be true.   And no, my life does not revolve around this game...  I do "other things".

 

2) An executive decision was made to put forth much of PP's efforts towards the new game (Win10/XB1).  The exciting stuff that is teased, 3D grass, new animations.. but what else?    ANY progress update would be welcomed.   Say what you want, but it is incentive that will get people to continue to be interested in this game, in its current stage or what is to come.  


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#66 mebby

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 11:29 AM

money not a problem.
think about it why do you suppose we have to go to
off site non PP sites to get user made courses?
how come they are not with the PP courses?
could that maybe because of the price of space on the steam server?
or maybe they can't afford to pay someone to keep up with all the courses and 
designers .
 
money like i said earlier makes the world turn.


I totally agree with your point. But what I'm saying is that there's currently no offering from PP that is asking for my money!

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#67 Greensboronclion

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 11:34 AM

I just enjoyed 9 holes at Illinois, the very first course available in PG.  As I was playing, I realised career mode really isn't a priority for me (it wasn't in Links), and maybe it shouldn't have been for the devs either.  The core audience is small enough; I'd like to know how many of us really want a career mode and how many are happy playing alone, in normal multiplayer or on OGT.

I draw a parallel to Tennis Elbow.  The base game is cheap but continually updated, and modders take care of the rest, including using all sorts of official ATP logos and player names/likenesses.  I guess it's too late because console versions of PG require some sort of career - I just wonder if everyone would've been better off by simply trying to produce the best looking, bug-free game possible, selling it at an affordable price point, and letting the community take care of the rest.  This has all been discussed before, but hell, it's that kind of thread.

 

 

The community has been running Links for many years and it is still there and the career mode for links is not much and the appeal is tournaments and multi player and any PC golf game will be the same.  That is what I play and looking at who is playing at OGT and PGLS it looks like the same people that were playing events before are playing now and add a few others in there and people seem to be enjoying themselves.  I have never been one to crave the 3D grass and all these bells and whistles and find this game to be more about gameplay but also very good looking and am content but understand that there are some that are not and that will always be the case no matter what game it is.  I have always said there are two type of gamers and the are those who want great gameplay and those who want great graphics and yes TGC might look better and Rory might look better but not by that much and neither has the gameplay that this game has.  I liked it better when we were arguing if the Pitch shot was right or if the Lob was to hard or to easy or which swing was easier to putt with and does the ball react right than what we are arguing about now.  People forget the COMMUNITY is the game and what brings us together and just look to Links to see how important a Community is for a game.  For me I am heading of to the National Golf Links to play my 4th round of the PGLS event and tonight its round 3 of the OGT PGA event at TPC San Antonio so I say to all just tee it up and play and it will be what it will be.


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#68 mebby

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 12:00 PM

The community has been running Links for many years and it is still there and the career mode for links is not much and the appeal is tournaments and multi player and any PC golf game will be the same.  That is what I play and looking at who is playing at OGT and PGLS it looks like the same people that were playing events before are playing now and add a few others in there and people seem to be enjoying themselves.  I have never been one to crave the 3D grass and all these bells and whistles and find this game to be more about gameplay but also very good looking and am content but understand that there are some that are not and that will always be the case no matter what game it is.  I have always said there are two type of gamers and the are those who want great gameplay and those who want great graphics and yes TGC might look better and Rory might look better but not by that much and neither has the gameplay that this game has.  I liked it better when we were arguing if the Pitch shot was right or if the Lob was to hard or to easy or which swing was easier to putt with and does the ball react right than what we are arguing about now.  People forget the COMMUNITY is the game and what brings us together and just look to Links to see how important a Community is for a game.  For me I am heading of to the National Golf Links to play my 4th round of the PGLS event and tonight its round 3 of the OGT PGA event at TPC San Antonio so I say to all just tee it up and play and it will be what it will be.


Good post and I don't really disagree with what you've said. There's zero doubt in my mind that JNPG has the best physics model of any golf game ever made. That is the base level appeal for me. If that's all they said this game was ever going to be then I'd be perfectly happy.

But the promise of things to come makes most yearn for more. It's just human nature. Couple that yearning with months on end of zero progress and/or communication and you've got the perfect recipe for frustration.
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#69 Greensboronclion

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 12:35 PM

Good post and I don't really disagree with what you've said. There's zero doubt in my mind that JNPG has the best physics model of any golf game ever made. That is the base level appeal for me. If that's all they said this game was ever going to be then I'd be perfectly happy.

But the promise of things to come makes most yearn for more. It's just human nature. Couple that yearning with months on end of zero progress and/or communication and you've got the perfect recipe for frustration.

 

 

Mebby I agree with you that the only thing that frustrates me is the lack of communication not the game.


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#70 jt83

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 12:52 PM

Well if this the final version of JNPG, it's time to give a final review, in game mag style - 

 

Pros -

  • it exists
  • refined physics
  • abundance of real courses for connoisseurs
  • typically small, passionate community
  • pro-tracer
  • floating camera
  • powerful course creator easy to use, hard to master

 

Cons - 

  • without Rory and EA's backing, the graphics won't blow you away
  • unless you simply love golf, single player is basically pointless, especially without saved stats
  • one (that's 1) lonely avatar
  • overall lack of personality - Nicklaus is in the title, but it may as well be Jack from down the street's Perfect Golf

 

Overall - positive review, 70%.

It'll scratch your Links itch.  One just wishes the devs had the money and crew that 90s golf games did.


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#71 mebby

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 01:00 PM

Well if this the final version of JNPG, it's time to give a final review, in game mag style - 
 
Pros -

  • it exists
  • refined physics
  • abundance of real courses for connoisseurs
  • typically small, passionate community
  • pro-tracer
  • floating camera
  • powerful course creator easy to use, hard to master
 
Cons - 
  • without Rory and EA's backing, the graphics won't blow you away
  • unless you simply love golf, single player is basically pointless, especially without saved stats
  • one (that's 1) lonely avatar
  • overall lack of personality - Nicklaus is in the title, but it may as well be Jack from down the street's Perfect Golf
 
Overall - positive review, 70%.
It'll scratch your Links itch.  One just wishes the devs had the money and crew that 90s golf games did.

Spot on! It's a great game. But it has potential to be so much more.

With an extremely slow development cycle and no communication we don't have any idea if that potential will ever be realized.

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#72 Buck

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 03:55 PM

After paying for a few drinks, and offered free appetizers, they shouldn't be that hungry.


lol - Touché

I guess all I can say is that we all have our limits on how long drinks & apps hold us over..

;)  :D



#73 Buck

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 04:03 PM

Re:  Career Mode stuff

 

I know it's not essential to everyone and apparently Links fans never really wanted it or used it..

 

But I have to say that those that came through the 2000's on the Tiger side of this usually really enjoyed the career side.  Whether it was the building up your progression or the tournaments or simply just being in a field/leaderboard/world rank alongside names you could recognize - It made it a ton of fun.

 

Even if it's rudimentary, some type of solo mode beyond "just go play by yourself" is sort of expected in a sports game these days.  Anything involving "online/PGLS/OGT" is not the traditional single player that we are talking about and there always will be a segment that is turned off by those as the only single player options.

 

This can be "back burner" I guess..but the "back burner" on the stove is pretty full with other pots right now and if PG goes to console, the expectations are simply a notch above where we are right now.


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#74 Crusher

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 04:12 PM

Most of us paid $20.00 for this game, peanuts.  Some of us buy all the courses in good faith. Most of us are playing daily with just a couple  glitches if any, we learned to join PGLS or OGT, we took the time to learn and comprehend  our computer's and IPS's idiosyncrasies; it's a very educational process.  

 

The investment we made and the fun we have far outweigh any small glitches that occur on various occasions.  The people who are not posing in here represent the 99% of players enjoying the game. I am a satisfied customer who stays busy with golf and many other interests on my computer.  I wish the same for for everyone but it does take research and discovery to have a great overall, computer experience. :)


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#75 Buck

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 04:38 PM

...we took the time to learn and comprehend  our computer's and IPS's idiosyncrasies; it's a very educational process.  

 

...but it does take research and discovery to have a great overall, computer experience..

 

 

Which is precisely how to have a failed gaming product on consoles.

 

The product needs to be feature complete, well fleshed out and a "turn it on and enjoy" experience.

 

Console gamers, and honestly in 2017 many PC gamers, are not looking for an "educational experience" or to "research and discover" (i.e.  deal with bugs, problems, digging around online for more content somewhere to complete the game).


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#76 RobV

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 05:45 PM

One item that I do want to add and where it has kept my interest is switching my swing from 3C, to Real Time Mouse Swing... I am actually having a lot of fun with this "new found" swing method that it does make me want to get better and better at it.. putting is a mess, but I suppose that will come in time. 

 

And thanks to Crusher's In game settings tips, some of those definitely helped out my gaming experience in terms of performance.  


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#77 M Rose

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 06:58 PM

Learnt bass after starting as a drummer. Bass in a band with the room rocking is the greatest. Then acoustic, guitar and uke. Now it's keyboard. I'm addicted. When those hands start working independently together it is a big buzz. Gaming PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds.

 

It's a tough world for a small developer.

 

Same for me....  I'm currently gigging in two different bands, one as a drummer and one as a bass player. It keeps you on your toes for sure, but I love being able to do both. Certainly keeps it fresh, and I find that they compliment each other in that they help me approach each instrument from the perspective of the other.
 

I've been a drummer for nearly 30 years and it's always going to be my first instrument and one of greatest proficiency, but I've now gone past 15 years since I started picking bass up as a writing tool... it wasn't ever my intention to gig as a bass player, but when my older brother (also a drummer) started having trouble finding bass players to fill his pop and blues gigs, then I took it upon myself to dive into it head first. I'm so glad I did.

 

As for PG.... I've had a few days off and am slowly working out DP's house builder and have a skeleton of a clubhouse for Cherry Hills, so maybe I'll throw you guys out a beta in a day or two.


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#78 Ted_Ball

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 12:45 AM

I wasn't a very good drummer Matthew. I could keep perfect time until I tried a paradiddle or any sort of flourish so I stuck to a very basic beat which wasn't much chop in the loudest, rockiest band in Queensland. So I decided the bass guitar was the best way to be involved. In that hippy community you either play music or wish you could play music. Fortunately I took to the bass and that drummer's timing carried over. 
 
Without a musical background in my schooling or elsewhere I had to teach myself the rudiments of musical theory and technique. We played covers so the process was this...get a cassette tape of the song, play it on a tiny, tinny sounding cassette player, rewind passages with a pencil and try to hear the bass line, plug in the bass through a inverter which was connected to a car battery to power my amp which was home-built from speaker parts and plywood and then play along. We lived in the bush without power. The house was powered by solar before anyone knew what solar was. If it was rainy I would drive the car to the corner of the house and plug the car in. The world is driving around on untapped power.
 
Anyway that's how I learned 200 songs. No internet with instant video lessons, no charts. But plenty of time.
 
The best lesson I taught myself was basslines are simple patterns on the fretboard - little boxes of notes and the song would follow short 'patterns' and then, generally, repeat. I was told, of course, to learn scales but...well you know. Once you know the patterns you can play the song in any key.
 
As a reference to Perfect Golf - that is similar to how I like to play and learn this game. Forget the grids and exact distances and rough percentages and just learn the basics then go out and play on instinct.
 
In the band I was always amazed that no matter how difficult it was to learn each song it was always fine on the night. There will be no drug references in this post.
 
I love bass playing with drummers. I don't care how bad they are. I don't notice. I just lock in and away we go. Psycho lead guitar/singers are a different matter. I learned the 13 bar blues and how to anticipate and play the mistakes that would inevitably occur from the frontman.
 
I would like to ask you Matthew...you use the bass as a writing tool and I would like to know if you write your own bass lines for original songs? I tried to make up bass lines but they all sound like a country and western beat.
 
From there it was a natural progression to acoustic guitar but that instrument really must be started as an 8 year old in your bedroom. Nevertheless, if I could sing I would be the psycho frontman. After moving from the bush community (I hit the city (hardly - Ed.) and I lost my band) the acoustic was essential because I could play by myself. The ukelele is great for solo-ing and singing along to. There is this lovely 'drone' in the sound that accompanies the voice so well.
 
But not wanting to stagnate I bought a keyboard and became determined to learn the most complex song I could. It is 'Cavatina' - the theme from The Deer Hunter. Now how the hell can I do that. There is plenty of sheet music on the net but trying to read the treble clef and bass clef while trying to find keys on the piano was out of the question. It's a foreign language. I went back to my bass training method. There's a good YouTube of Cavatina with the dude's hands playing the keyboard plus another keyboard with each note played highlighted with colours for left and right hand. The trouble is it is very impractical to watch the video and play the piano at the same time. You would have to pause / play / pause / rewind / play etc. etc.
 
With the bass guitar it was a matter of burning each passage into the memory so I could play the songs on stage without charts. So I invented a method of breaking the parts of Cavatina into small passages thus creating 'patterns'. Anyone who can read sheet music will roll their eyes. But it suits my brain and it works - so there. Eventually the memory starts clicking into gear and difficult pieces can be learned. Fortunately Cavatina is a beautiful piece so every practice session is a joy.
 
As a Perfect Golf reference this is by far the most enjoyable way to play this game. That's why I like the Naked Golf concept - and I have to admit PG is so good visually and practically that it is a successful way to play. Eventually one can go out and instinctively remember how far a shot will go or how it will react. Not only that but you can learn a course. I love Medinah because I've learned it's nuances over many rounds. It takes PG from a game - with all the aids and HUD crap - to more of a simulation. Get rid of the crap kitty-kats.
 
Here is part of a page of the chart for Cavatina showing the timing of both hands. It takes a bit of time to get the chart together but I do it at work so why not. I find it is a better visual chart than traditional sheet music.
 
 
cavatinaextra.png
 
 
TL;DR There are plenty of hours in the day whether you think so or not. If PG was irresistable I would play it many hours a week but it isn't so I don't. It's kind of sad because I like to fill up my days and there is a hole there where PG should be.


#79 jeffield

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 01:13 AM

Let's get this thing going. I love the gameplay of this game and, I would buy an Xbox Scorpio for this game specifically. Or just get it on my ps4 when we get to that point. I would really like just a hint of how things are developing on the console side and pp's thoughts on continuing the steam version.
Thanks

#80 MERACE

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 03:42 AM

Same for me....  I'm currently gigging in two different bands, one as a drummer and one as a bass player. It keeps you on your toes for sure, but I love being able to do both. Certainly keeps it fresh, and I find that they compliment each other in that they help me approach each instrument from the perspective of the other.
 

I'm a music lover but not a musician unless playing air guitar qualifies.   :P

 

Seriously, I'll use your post as an analogy for my preference of not confining myself to playing just one golf game.  I'm looking forward to the upcoming updates for both JNPG and TGC with one releasing very soon and the other much later.  ;)

 

 

-MERACE






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