251 replies to this topic

[Greensboronclion]

I just want to say one more thing to those who think this game is boring and that is if you think that go play the OGT event at Latrobe CC and after that 2nd round tell if you still think its boring.  Really tough setup and found myself having to think my way around the joint the whole time and for the record I have been on that course many times and it plays in the game pretty much how it does in real life.  Arnie would be proud of the video game course of his home course.

[Affo]

Latrobe...is that from original Links?

[Buck]

I just want to say one more thing to those who think this game is boring and that is if you think that go play the OGT event at Latrobe CC and after that 2nd round tell if you still think its boring.  Really tough setup and found myself having to think my way around the joint the whole time and for the record I have been on that course many times and it plays in the game pretty much how it does in real life.  Arnie would be proud of the video game course of his home course.

 

 

I think you might be misunderstanding why and what people mean when using the term "bored" in the context of PG.

[RobV]

Latrobe...is that from original Links?

It is a real course in PA, USA.

[Trip]

I pay $250 a year to play PG with my skytrak and my annual renewal is due at the end of this month.  

 

I'm not bored with the game. I'd like to see improved graphics, 3d grass and so on but I'm happy to wait. 

 

What really frustrates me is the apparent lack of attention to the basics of the UI which are so poor, and which, I suspect, require far less dev time than graphics updates. You can't record your scores or see stats. You can't save a game config setup. Post-game putting stats are wrong. You can't bring the post-shot panel back up once it disappears (which means you can't mulligan or replay or save the shot). There is NO DOCUMENTATION.

 

I know what it's like running a small dev shop and I also know what it's like seeing your customer forum full of posts complaining about stuff you know is not a priority for your business for reasons the customer can't possibly understand. I want PP to succeed. I'd like to support them. 

[Greensboronclion]

I think you might be misunderstanding why and what people mean when using the term "bored" in the context of PG.

No I don't believe I am at all. Some play this game not for the gameplay and only for the bells and whistles and lose interest when they don't get them and that is just a gaming fact. The gameplay is not boring but to some gameplay is secondary and yes they have become bored by it right now. If you thru 3D grass into the mix tomorrow and a new Ani and this place would be full but two weeks later they would leave again as they would be bored again but the true gamer will still be here as long as the gameplay is good and if you don't believe that just look at a Dated Links2003 that still has the loyal crowd with no bells and whistles. The PC player is and always will be your hardcore gamer and I am and always will be gameplay first.

[Buck]

@greensboronclion

What I mean is that a boredom for some folks is the lack of built in progression (call it career), avatar options, thriving 1st party tournaments, stats and stale environments (among many many things)

I agree the core of the gameplay is good, but being "on the course" feels like a lifeless abandoned world.
It's way more incomplete than just the raw visuals, at least in terms of a feature complete modern game.

Surely you can see some part of that angle, no?

[Greensboronclion]

Buck no PC game has ever had a decent Career mode and the reason is that most want to play in a community and tournaments.  It is of my opinion that  if someone is really looking for a career mode its on the consoles as that is what console gaming is where like the old TW series where you worked to get your player better and increase the attributes but that is not what JNPG or even a Links was all about.  In a console game you start out with hitting drives 230 yds and after you beat everything your hitting it 320 every time and its boring as it gets.  I think people mistake PC video golf with the console side as they are two different customers.  For the record most PC golfers will tell you they hate the crowds and just want to play the course and all events thru the years of Links were played without crowds and most console people will tell you they want all that interaction with fans and everything else.  Two different worlds and two different groups of players.

[RobV]

if you don't believe that just look at a Dated Links2003 that still has the loyal crowd with no bells and whistles. The PC player is and always will be your hardcore gamer and I am and always will be gameplay first.

I can attest to that!   Still going strong with family and friends with Friday night golf!   Lot's of laughs, voip, beers and video golf!   Courses are STILL being pumped out which continues to keep the interest and desire to play.    But I disagree that the game does not have all the bells and whistles, in fact.. it has that and way too many to count as there was something for everyone who enjoyed and still enjoys the game!   Remember when manuals came with game in the box?   The Links manual was pretty extensive, why?   All the bells and whistles!

 

The biggest difference here is, these guys who I play with had zero interest in the early access of PG..they are just not into that so, they did not buy the game.   I do believe though, once the game is "complete" (win10/xbox), maybe that will change their tune.  

[frank70]

Buck no PC game has ever had a decent Career mode and the reason is that most want to play in a community and tournaments.  It is of my opinion that  if someone is really looking for a career mode its on the consoles as that is what console gaming is where like the old TW series where you worked to get your player better and increase the attributes but that is not what JNPG or even a Links was all about.  In a console game you start out with hitting drives 230 yds and after you beat everything your hitting it 320 every time and its boring as it gets.  I think people mistake PC video golf with the console side as they are two different customers.  For the record most PC golfers will tell you they hate the crowds and just want to play the course and all events thru the years of Links were played without crowds and most console people will tell you they want all that interaction with fans and everything else.  Two different worlds and two different groups of players.

I dunno.

 

You first sentence is key - at least for me. The Links career mode was pretty basic. Not immersive.

 

But if you look at franchise modes of NBA2k or MLB the Show: If a golf game would have that ..... i would love to play that. There would be enough time to play OGT tourneys as well.

 

We have a lot of real Tour venue courses already. If the scoring system would be good (and tweakable by the community) i would be pretty immersed by playing as a Tour Pro against virtual Spieths, Johnsons or McIlroy. Trying to win tournaments or even Majors. Climbing up the WGR over time. To built up your player always bored me. But the tournament atmosphere and playing for something in solo rounds was something i liked about EAs games. And their career mode was never very deep and the AI scoring model was very bad. There is a lot of room for PP to make it way better. And then it could be a unique selling point, especially for the console.

[jt83]

We have a lot of real Tour venue courses already. If the scoring system would be good (and tweakable by the community) i would be pretty immersed by playing as a Tour Pro against virtual Spieths, Johnsons or McIlroy.

 

Those names would have to be community-provided too.  Using them officially would probably cost 5 figures each, at least.

 

Not sure why the guys are looking at a console release anyway.  I guess they've looked into it.

[Greensboronclion]

I dunno.

 

You first sentence is key - at least for me. The Links career mode was pretty basic. Not immersive.

 

But if you look at franchise modes of NBA2k or MLB the Show: If a golf game would have that ..... i would love to play that. There would be enough time to play OGT tourneys as well.

 

We have a lot of real Tour venue courses already. If the scoring system would be good (and tweakable by the community) i would be pretty immersed by playing as a Tour Pro against virtual Spieths, Johnsons or McIlroy. Trying to win tournaments or even Majors. Climbing up the WGR over time. To built up your player always bored me. But the tournament atmosphere and playing for something in solo rounds was something i liked about EAs games. And their career mode was never very deep and the AI scoring model was very bad. There is a lot of room for PP to make it way better. And then it could be a unique selling point, especially for the console.

 

 

Frank I play both MLB The Show 16 and NBA2K game and the career mode is fantastic on both and the one drawing point of the console.  The difference with those games vs the old TW series is that a game like the Show is a true simulation on the console and you just cant power up your team if you play it right but with TW you could.  Hey I am a console gamer also and love those games but for me I have never really took hold of console Golf games as the console gaming as to me the PC is more personal and enjoyable.  You are correct there are a lot of things that can get better over time but not a bad game at all right now and by the way you have to agree there are some really tough courses out there right now and TPC San Antonio seems to have brought most of us to our knees.  I did look the other day over at LSPN and the winner of the Masters was like -85 and the scoring here is still a little out of wack but still the best we have ever seen as close to reality.  If I could make one area of this game harder than it is right now and only one it would be around the greens where I still think its a tad to easy and raising the difficulty there might shave 2 to 3 shots off the scoring per round and bring it closer to reality. 

[frank70]

Frank I play both MLB The Show 16 and NBA2K game and the career mode is fantastic on both and the one drawing point of the console.  The difference with those games vs the old TW series is that a game like the Show is a true simulation on the console and you just cant power up your team if you play it right but with TW you could.  Hey I am a console gamer also and love those games but for me I have never really took hold of console Golf games as the console gaming as to me the PC is more personal and enjoyable.  You are correct there are a lot of things that can get better over time but not a bad game at all right now and by the way you have to agree there are some really tough courses out there right now and TPC San Antonio seems to have brought most of us to our knees.  I did look the other day over at LSPN and the winner of the Masters was like -85 and the scoring here is still a little out of wack but still the best we have ever seen as close to reality.  If I could make one area of this game harder than it is right now and only one it would be around the greens where I still think its a tad to easy and raising the difficulty there might shave 2 to 3 shots off the scoring per round and bring it closer to reality. 

I agree. But a good career mode is not system based. I own NBA2K16 for the PC. It has the same career mode as the consoles have.

 

I came to gaming as a PC player and i loved playing franchise modes back then. I would suppose that quite a few golf game fans would like to play in a virtual tournament environment, simulating to compete for the Green Jacket (the course is there).

 

Of course real player names (roster) have to be built by the community. But a good roster and a tournament atmosphere with galleries and sound would be an absolute feature for JNPG. I have no interest in building up my player - i would take my created player from the player menu would choose TP difficulty and would compete.

 

When i was talking about scoring, i rather meant the cpu scoring. This was a weakness of every EA game. The scores were calculated too basically, course or weather conditions weren't factored in. Just too basic. PP would have to get this right to have a real immersive new game mode. CPU scoring should be very different for instance in St.Andrews when it is calm and soft vs. when it's gusty and hard.

 

My personal scoring wouldn't be a problem. I would play with no grids and wouldn't allow myself to use the 64W around the greens. If i do that i get a really realistic challenge around and on the greens and great scoring variety.

[Greensboronclion]

Frank that 64W is quite a tool around the greens and I just wonder what the scoring would be like without it in the bag?  Sounds like I might have to do an experiment without it to find out.  As for playing without a grid I am all for that and would use the BLI only but I am not much into the naked putting aspect of it but I would like to see the grid go away for tournaments as that is the old RAW way of Links and I prefer that way but that's just me as I hate those lines on the greens.

[Crow357]

@Greens  I use my 64 for chipping and pitching.  It's too short for most flops and sand shots so I usually end up hitting a 60 or 56 anyway.  Plus, I find on tour pro, fat and thin shots are very easy to get wrong, so I tend to stay with the 60 and 56 anyway so I don't have to go into overswing.

[Greensboronclion]

@Crow since going to tour pro I kind have seen the same thing with fat and thin shots and might pull that 64W out of the bag and see what happens.  Its a great club tho in the 70 to 75 yd range but I could make the 60W work as I did before and it could work also on the sand shots.  I will give it a whorl and thanks for the tip.

[Crow357]

I know for me, playing with the controller, I get better distance control out of my irons than I do out of my wedges.  I'd rather hit a 150yd shot than a 100yd shot cause I have a hard time controlling the spin with the wedges.  So, If I'm on a 400yd or less hole, I do not tee off with driver.  Not unless I can get to pitching range (40 to 60 yards).  If I 3 clicked, I wouldn't care how close I got.  I'd just hit less power on the meter.

[Buck]

...most want to play in a community and tournaments.

I think people mistake PC video golf with the console side as they are two different customers.

...most PC golfers will tell you they hate the crowds and just want to play the course and all events

Two different worlds and two different groups of players.

 

Lots of subjectivity there that's being stated as fact.

I'd be careful with that.

I'm here and have been playing digital golf since it was possible, but I never loved Links and don't really agree with a lot of what you said in that large post about the target of the experience.

I totally agree that those that really like(d) Links are different though.

I'm almost hoping that the existing Steam (computer) version that is supposedly getting split off could stay and cater to those folks.

[worrybirdie]

I think each of us had different dreams of what was to come with this game after we saw those initial glamor shots of PP's potential so long ago (look at that waterfall...ooh...these guys are serious!). The initial claims of the goals of PP may be dogging them to this day (and well it should...it probably should have been done differently). However, we are where we are. The question is are we going anywhere, or just spinning our wheels (as fans of the dream).

[jt83]

We're certainly due for a dev update or a statement of some kind.  I notice that bug reporters, feature requesters and Skytrak players are getting answers...maybe this thread has been marked persona non grata.