230 replies to this topic

[axe360]

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[highfade]

Some more thoughts on the swing meter:

 

• The spin/ push bars at the bottom means that up to the first bar the ball will only spin, so snap past the bar results in a push/pull. So it is impossible to just hit a push or block out shot that that goes straight right or left. I'm fine with that as I don't want a 5-click swing.
• Will the spin keep increasing past the push bar if so the effect is multiplied and can be severe.
• You won't be able to hit a slice that starts left of your target and cuts back unless you do it deliberate in your setup like in Links.
• There should be no perfect snap. The best you could do is a very little baby fade or draw, like in real life even a straight shot is never perfectly straight, In Links on a flat green with no wind you could hit 10 hio in a row with a perfect snap.
• How about tying the meter speed in with the length of you back swing.  Lets say the speed for a normal snap at the top is the same as a 110mph swing speed, then an overswing will make the meter go 5mph faster and a half swing (up to 9 o'clock) will slow the speed down to 55mph. In Links it is more difficult to get a half or 3/4 swing right because the speed is the same and you should not be penalized for taking some off a shot for more control.
• This should work great for chip shots as well.

Why don't we go radical simulation and scrap the swing meter. Let the golfer animation be the swing meter. I would love playing like this; start you swing, release the mouse button at the top, middle or wherever  of you back swing and snap when the club face is in the hit.

Adriaan

[truckerkills]

This looks excellent : im a 3 clicker and you've added a lot to it. Cant wait

[Maineah]

I just repeat what I had to say about the cost structure in the previous, now deleted Forums: I will gladly pay whatever it takes to play this game, I understand that I may have to pay for the game itself, then pay extra for the CourseForge, and finally pay for an online registration on top of that and maybe even once more for additional downloadable content. I'm okay with all of that, but not with a pay2win-game like WGT. That would be a deal-breaker for me.

 

If I recall AJ's comments from 3 months back, he wrote that pay2win was not an option.

 

@Maineah: I read your now removed comment and liked it. Like it as in: "enjoyed it and agreed with it "and also clicked on the "Like this" button. Looking forward to the reworded beauty you are cooking up now. 

@k11

Thanks for the reminder k11  , you really put it best above, I too will pay whatever it takes to play this game, within reason of course- Pay to win is not an option with me also-

 

The game costs money to develop, i'll pay for that-- online play costs money run, gladly pay for that, course design program costs money to develop, gladly pay for that too-

Not everyone will play online, not everyone will design courses. Keeping these costs separate will keep the "core" offline play game as cheap as possible for the masses and leave choice to upgrade to premium services those who want it-

[Dazmaniac]

Why don't we go radical simulation and scrap the swing meter. Let the golfer animation be the swing meter. I would love playing like this; start you swing, release the mouse button at the top, middle or wherever  of you back swing and snap when the club face is in the hit.

Adriaan

 

Adriaan,

 

You raise a point I was thinking of whilst watching the golf from Thracian Cliffs earlier today. It will need someone from PP to answer (as all we will do is speculate) but will the golfer swing in 'real time' with the swing meter or will it be like it is in Links 2003 where the shot is set with the swing meter and then the animation swings?

 

I'm curious as with having the extra 4th click, if the swing meter and animation were synchronised, there would be a brief pause in the hitting area whilst the player set the fat/thin connection with the 4th click.

[highfade]

Adriaan,

 

You raise a point I was thinking of whilst watching the golf from Thracian Cliffs earlier today. It will need someone from PP to answer (as all we will do is speculate) but will the golfer swing in 'real time' with the swing meter or will it be like it is in Links 2003 where the shot is set with the swing meter and then the animation swings?

 

I'm curious as with having the extra 4th click, if the swing meter and animation were synchronised, there would be a brief pause in the hitting area whilst the player set the fat/thin connection with the 4th click.

Daz, you're right, a pause would ruin it unless they could find some other way to deal with the fat/thin.

[Maineah]

Daz, you're right, a pause would ruin it unless they could find some other way to deal with the fat/thin.

Good point, I didn't pick up on this myself-  I'm very intrigued with the 4 click (just something about watching a chilly dip with a fat shot...  ) 

Setting up the shot with the meter then watching the animation is fine with me- Much better than a delay-

[☠InDaSkies☠]

Happy to buy the game. Happy to buy an online subscription. Don't want to pay for balls and clubs etc that give me an advantage over someone who hasn't. If people want to pay extra fir branded gear then fine as long as it doesn't give them an unfair advantage.

In real life I still hit some 20+ year old prosimmon blades. And I bought those second hand, so god knows how old they really are!

I don't personally like the WGT business model, I want a game I can play like a pro with without having to buy gear. Practice will make me better, like real life, a snazzy pair of golf shoes won't!!

I agree with you 100%!

[☠InDaSkies☠]

Everyone needs to consider the older folks who will be playing this game. Three Clicking is what most virtual golfers got use to from 1994 to 1999.  Having a super fast meter speed would prevent people with slower reaction time to play more advanced games - just not fair to the masses that will be supporting PG.  I think it all boils down to tough courses and tough conditions using a similar TW12 3-click-swing-meter.

 

A super fast 3-click-meter would be the equivalent of trying to catch a humming bird bare-handed. 

 

AND...if there is going to be a similar RTS/TS/PS swing mode then it needs to be designed so there cannot be any mechanical advantages done to a mouse or use of other objects with a mouse. (Is that even possible?)

 

Also. A 3-click meter should always be able to match the distance of someone using a mouse-movement swing mode. This of course means exact conditions being used to test the swing types.

 

IMHO a mouse-movement-swing e.g. RTS/TS/PS should be eliminated from the game "IF" there is no way to prevent the end user from jury-rigging their mouse in one form or another. 

Agreed me being one of those older guys and all I have ever used is the 3-click swing meter I would like to stay with that. And I also agree with you on RTS,TS,PS there should be a way to keep the cheating out of the game.

[Bluenoser]

Everyone needs to consider the older folks who will be playing this game. Three Clicking is what most virtual golfers got use to from 1994 to 1999.  Having a super fast meter speed would prevent people with slower reaction time to play more advanced games - just not fair to the masses that will be supporting PG.  I think it all boils down to tough courses and tough conditions using a similar TW12 3-click-swing-meter.

 

A super fast 3-click-meter would be the equivalent of trying to catch a humming bird bare-handed. 

 

AND...if there is going to be a similar RTS/TS/PS swing mode then it needs to be designed so there cannot be any mechanical advantages done to a mouse or use of other objects with a mouse. (Is that even possible?)

 

Also. A 3-click meter should always be able to match the distance of someone using a mouse-movement swing mode. This of course means exact conditions being used to test the swing types.

 

IMHO a mouse-movement-swing e.g. RTS/TS/PS should be eliminated from the game "IF" there is no way to prevent the end user from jury-rigging their mouse in one form or another.

 

 

#1 - it is impossible to stop people from cheating. I understand you can do things to deter it, but if somebody wants to cheat, they'll find a way.

 

#2 - I don't see how you could program something into a game that can stop someone from placing a piece of wood or guide on their desk to slide their mouse along.

 

#3 - Take a mouse movement option out of the game and say good-bye to a lot of potential customers

 

You don't eliminate options from a game because you think some people will find a way to cheat using it.

[FixAmer1st]

#1 - it is impossible to stop people from cheating.

 

#2 - I'll be real impressed if somebody can program something into a game that can stop someone from placing a piece of wood or guide on their desk to slide their mouse along.

 

#3 - Take a mouse movement option out of the game and say good-bye to a lot of potential customers

 

You don't eliminate options from a game because you think some people will find a way to cheat using it.

 

Let's eliminate the click meter altogether too, since it's possible to jury rig that as was proven in the past.

 

Regarding your #2 statement Bluenoser, in Links, has been worked on. If the game determines a certain number of perfect mouse slides (3 I think) the game engine adds a variable swing error to the next number of swings (10 I think). Then it reverts back to using the normal swing input again and so on and so on hoping it deters the player from using slide guides.

 

The thought of the Links programmers was that the number of offset swings (10) overrides the number of perfect swings (3), and going back to a non-guided swing would be more satisfactory to the player.

 

Jerry

[Bluenoser]

Reguarding your #2 statement Bluenoser, in Links, has been worked on. If the game determines a certain number of perfect mouse slides (3 I think) the game engine adds a variable swing error to the next number of swings (10 I think). Then it reverts back to using the normal swing input again and so on and so on hoping it deters the player from using slide guides.

 

Jerry

 

Yes, edited my post.

 

However, that way that it is done in Links is wrong. It's wrong because it punishes good players and basically disallows me to practice the way I like to.

 

I'll also add that the click meter can be juked with too, so saying RTS/PS/TS should be eliminated because some people will cheat is hypocritical.

[axe360]

I had to rethink my comments for the better. This is an age old argument and it didn't take long for Someone to start it up..

 

 

Bluenoser, I agree with you.. You are spot on!

[Jbx]

A very exciting project and I look forward to more info as and when.

[Dazmaniac]

Regarding your #2 statement Bluenoser, in Links, has been worked on. If the game determines a certain number of perfect mouse slides (3 I think) the game engine adds a variable swing error to the next number of swings (10 I think). Then it reverts back to using the normal swing input again and so on and so on hoping it deters the player from using slide guides.

 

The thought of the Links programmers was that the number of offset swings (10) overrides the number of perfect swings (3), and going back to a non-guided swing would be more satisfactory to the player.

 

Jerry

 

Jerry,

 

Do you know if a similar tweak was added in relation to the click swing?

 

I only ask as there have been times when I have played a round from the 1st tee and maybe hit 10-12 consecutive spot on 6 o'clock snaps on the meter. I would hate for the game to suddenly decide after 6 hits that what I am doing is beyond the norm and suddenly throw a random element in to my next shot.

 

Speaking from a clicking perspective, some folks are that good and can repeatedly hit the ideal snap shot after shot. Would hate to see them be penalised for being too good.

[fungolfer]

I can only agree Daz. I usually hit the snap 9 out of 10 times. When I played a round last week after ages, I didn't hit one single snap out of 12 holes. Every single swing was late, sometimes way too late. I really don't remember that I ever missed the snap at the right end

Maybe one of the updates/patches changed the swing meter speed, really don't know. Maybe I just got 3 years older

[Davefevs]

I probably hit 6 o/c snap 50% of the time.....however I find that if I hit 12 o/c I am more likely to hit 6 o/c. Bizarre?

[Dazmaniac]

I probably hit 6 o/c snap 50% of the time.....however I find that if I hit 12 o/c I am more likely to hit 6 o/c. Bizarre?

 

Sometimes, my snap can be that wild, I'm a 9 to 5 man, lol

 

[highfade]

My normal swing in Links is a little overswing at the top and a little early at the bottom so I usually play a draw. Strange IRL my natural shape is a fade so the new meter might work better for me.       

[MERACE]

As I stated in a previous post, in beta testing Tiger Woods PC EA instituted an "edge penalizer" in TS similar to what is supposedly in the Links 2003 RTS.  However, I and other non-edgers were penalized for hitting straight shots so EA doing the right thing removed the "edge penalizer" prior to release of the game.

 

I truly believe that edging (and axis disabling software) could be eliminated if a semi circular mouse swing (similar to what is in www.ongolf.com) were available in Perfect Golf.

 

-MERACE